MaximusMurkimus Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Luminos564 said: Speaking of nightmares, Mu-12 in CS refers to Ragna as the "World's Nightmare", perhaps indicating that Ragna goes full Beast mode (or that super-duper Lex Luthor evil that's vaguely been foreshadowed by Rachel) so there's that. For reference, Mu-12 refers to Hazama/Terumi as the "True Evil", Haku-men as the "Ancient Hero", Jin's hilariously the "False Hero" as well as "Endbringer" with finally Rachel topped off as "Observer". But take from this what you will. That's how she referred to those people in CS, when she was still brainwashed. It might be like in CP where Nu was back to her old tricks, this version of Mu-12 still hasn't faced herself *cue Persona music*
Leiopelma Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 21 hours ago, Poultrygeist said: If Relius had won in CP, literally none of the conflict and tragedies afterwards would have happened. Think about that for a second. This is a major problem with Japanese storytelling as a whole, they write characters in shades of black and white and not realizing that you can interpret a character in more than one way. Like how they expect you to sympathize with Ragna or Bang even though nothing about them being good people is objective. How can you say that Relius can be seen as good? His sole stated objective is to create a perfect doll. There's no reason to think that anyone else would be better off if he turned himself into a god. He doesn't give a damn about anything or anyone else after all and turning all of humanity into seithr was actually part of his plan too. He only sees people as raw material or tools that he can use as he pleases and he'll happily torture them when it suits his purposes. Look at how happily he mentally tortured Makoto in order to shatter her psyche before extracting her soul to put in a doll in her bad end in CSE for example. Relius is a complete monster and only might appear like the lesser evil if you compare him to a genocidal goddess (but even that's debatable too since he too wanted to wipe out humanity as part of his plan). Stopping both of them would certainly be better than letting either of them win. Both Ragna and Bang are obviously good people. Ragna has a short temper and Bang is an idiot who ends up in unnecessary fights, but they both try to avoid killing others and neither of them enjoys inflicting pain. Instead they both try to help others when they are in need of aid. I think they're both clearly good people.
Poultrygeist Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Not quite. His objective is to reboot the world, but in order to do that he wants to start by creating the perfect doll. His ideal world is one without the godlike beings, and considering that those beings are the cause for 50% of the suffering in the BB universe (the other 50% being Terumi's doing) so that sounds pretty well intended. He's not good by any interpretation, but he's the only one of the villains with an actual plan and isn't just "lol let's kill everything because EVIL." And no, I do not consider Ragna and BAng to be good people. Ragna is a rude prick with no respect for anyone, and Bang is an obnoxious loudmouth and a creeper towards Litchi. Relius is not a good guy, but objectively neither are they.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 At least they are better than Relius. Either way, it is ironic that he want to create a perfect doll before remake the world without any gods, so only him matters? I know how Relius play and how he despise the world. It is a personal matter of view about to see him as a big villain pulling all these strings, yet knowing what he is doing somehow makes sense in some way. And Poultrygeist it is okay if you don't consider Ragna and Bang good people, I respect that and agree with some of your motives, but even with those rudeness/weirdness of they, we all know they are good and sometimes kind hearted. I wonder what Relius did being sage One and why did he left. Geez, too many questions about the story, don't even know how to start...
Leiopelma Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Poultrygeist said: And no, I do not consider Ragna and BAng to be good people. Ragna is a rude prick with no respect for anyone, and Bang is an obnoxious loudmouth and a creeper towards Litchi. Relius is not a good guy, but objectively neither are they. Relius' sole intention is to create his "perfect doll". He only wants to destroy Amaterasu because it gets in the way of that. He is a sadistic monster with absolutely no good intentions. His plan did involve the extermination of humanity after all and there's no guarantee that he wanted to bring humans back. Even if he did, which is a pretty big assumption since he doesn't value humans at all, everyone from the current world would still be dead because of him. Ragna may be easily angered and prone to insulting others, but he spares the monster who made his life a living hell. He sacrifices his arm to save Noel. Even though he's hunted he makes sure not to kill the NOL personnel that's after him. Off the top of my head Ragna helps Mai, Litchi, Platinum, Noel, Taokaka, Celica and Nu with no ulterior motive and no thought of a reward. Unless you only consider someone who's completely sinless to be good I fail to see how Ragna fails to qualify. He's a much better person than the majority of humanity. As for Bang, his love with Litchi but it is presented as a childish obsession and he would never force himself on her. And he too avoids killing people and is more interested in helping his people survive than in revenge. Bang may be loud and stupid, but he is a good person as well. He never means ill to others.
ReRe01 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I trust them both over Relius even if they have their weakness of be rude at times or even with loudmouth with caring for a woman he loves.
Volt Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 This is kinda getting off control... Just reminding that when Rachel was talking about the "Girl with the book" and everyone knew it really was about the CT time loops, she was treating Amaterasu as a Girl, therefore she could be the Act III Boss.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 44 minutes ago, Volt said: This is kinda getting off control... Just reminding that when Rachel was talking about the "Girl with the book" and everyone knew it really was about the CT time loops, she was treating Amaterasu as a Girl, therefore she could be the Act III Boss. We know that, yet we are trying to elaborate why she would be a boss, or better, if she would ba a villain or something like that and why.
Fenris Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 It should go without saying that "good" and "evil" aren't so black and white; there is a complex gray area in-between, and the concepts in and of themselves are wholly subjective. However, Ragna's being a smart-ass and Bang's loudness aren't the slightest bit comparable to the level of "evil" Relius is on. Count the number of positive things Ragna and Bang have done--the sacrifices they've made in spite of all the hardships they've seen...yeah. Comparing Ragna and Bang's shortcomings to anything that Relius's sociopathic ass has done in the past century or so doesn't even begin to make sense. It's actually kind of scary (though, yeah, this is just a video game series) that anyone would justify anything Relius has done or what he stands for just because Ragna has a smart mouth and Bang is loud and lustlorn for Litchi, therefore they are somehow just as bad(?). What? :/
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 It is funny how they introduced Ragna for us being historycally a villain (the dangerous one) and now only his nickname Grim Reaper remains, because I think nobody sees him as a villain anymore (at least the main cast)
Leiopelma Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: It is funny how they introduced Ragna for us being historycally a villain (the dangerous one) and now only his nickname Grim Reaper remains, because I think nobody sees him as a villain anymore (at least the main cast) Tsubaki and Hakumen still think that Ragna is evil. But yes, I don't think that anyone else sees him as a villain.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 46 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: We know that, yet we are trying to elaborate why she would be a boss, or better, if she would ba a villain or something like that and why. She wouldn't have to be a villain, she would just have to be on her side. She'd be tired of being targeted for destruction (giving Terumi/Relius/Izanami reason), said it would be protecting the world initially but instead grew to prefer everyone suffering repeatedly (giving Rachel reason) and it intends to continue rewinding time so that no one would have proper closure (giving everyone else reason). It's been talked about way too long and with too much emphasis to remain unplayable in some form. It could even be a superboss like Take-Mikazuchi.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: It's been talked about way too long and with too much emphasis to remain unplayable in some form. It could even be a superboss like Take-Mikazuchi. Welp, by each way we gonna have some bonuses, like this: If playable, we gonna have another boss playable. If not, and be a superboss, we may have another new playable character, beside Jubei, meaning 2 slots. But we can't argue so much about Amaterasu being playable or not until someone finishes arcade with Izanami.
Chaoschao222 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 No, you can't talk about Amaterasu being playable at all. This thread isn't for that 'ish. It's annoying for me and for users if I need to make this thread no-fun mode. Please try to pay attention to the rules. There's also no need to respond to this post, just keep the rules that have transferred from the CP thread in mind.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Back to how everyone will defeat Izanami. Besides the theory of Muchorin to materialize her soul, I don't think Platinum has such capacity and even with Nine saying for (almost) everyone to defeat Izanami she doesn't give a single idea how the Nox Nyctores will affect it. You may ask "why Platinum would try it if Trinity is the one who materialized Terumi, not Luna or Sena?" We also noticed that Trinity is "wandering" around (due to that Jin intro), but does anybody have any idea how did she got outside? Because as far as I can remember, Trinity sealed her soul inside Muchorin, and not inside Platinum. And I have other issue with Platinum, I remember during the act 1 something was told about her existence disappear or something, do we already have information about why that would happen? If not, it is OK.
Fenris Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I was under the impression that Platinum (the body that houses Luna and Sena) was a physical manifestation (or a creation) of Muchourin. Either that, or some sort of homunculus. Or both. Trinity was known as an alchemist back in her day, which tends to go hand-and-hand with homunculi and things of the sort. It is likely that Trinity created the body from within Muchourin using the said Noct Nyctores' power, although I'll admit don't know very much about her past dealings with alchemy to expound on that particular subject any further. However, if Platinum's existence is indeed vanishing, then it is safe to assume that whatever tethered her to the world has either become too weak to sustain her or is no longer there. Hopefully what little is known about Platinum (the body) will unfold in Central Fiction.
Skull567890 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Trinity should have been unaffected by the Embryo world like Ada since she's in a Nox. If she put herself into Muchorin, I'm guessing she can get herself out if there's a need to. Although that means she'd be without her strongest asset, which is why I think she hooks up with Jin to (presumably) retrieve it from Platinum in Act 2. Given that Platinum is an unstable host for some reason now, she probably can't do anything without fading away alongside both of them.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Maybe Platinum's existence even simpler than we think; Platinum could be a Chronophantasma of a younger Trinity and we just don't realize it since no one really looks at her that closely. I do find it interesting how Izanami went from teleport-spamming untouchable baddie to someone who could technically be beaten by Taokaka. Maybe Nine does something to her Arsmagus usage that forces her to fight more directly and up close than before.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: I do find it interesting how Izanami went from teleport-spamming untouchable baddie to someone who could technically be beaten by Taokaka. Maybe Nine does something to her Arsmagus usage that forces her to fight more directly and up close than before. Wait, what if that is true, like if she enter that battle form she can be touched, and even cut by Hakumen then? This one I do not think it was Nine doing, maybe an Izanami's mistake, thinking she is an ultimate being.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: Wait, what if that is true, like if she enter that battle form she can be touched, and even cut by Hakumen then? This one I do not think it was Nine doing, maybe an Izanami's mistake, thinking she is an ultimate being. Maybe Time Killer was no good on her additionally because it was a no-contact move? But yeah, there has to be a story-related reason why she suddenly is susceptible to regular hits and attacks. Maybe it'll be like Margaret/Elizabeth/Rachel where she doesn't actually get hit but has a barrier that absorbs them.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 http://www.blazblue.jp/cf/ac/character/izanami.html My translator is acting up but: Name: Hades: Izanami Height: Unknown Body weight: Unknown Birthday: Unknown Blood type: Unknown (wouldn't these all be the same as Saya by proxy?) Likes: The world, what an asshole (even if this is a typo, lmao) Dislikes: Ragna The Bloodedge (over Jin? Weird) Hobby: Jigsaw puzzles (lol?) Drive: Exodus Arc Backstory: To all living things, it descended to give an equal death. Is the sister of Ragna and Jin, something something body is the origin of the pods (Murokumo units?), something something 10th Prime Field device, something something has the purpose of creating a Doomsday. And now, that goal is about to be fulfilled. Personality: Is cold, heartless, ruthless (given). For all life, it thinks only about the world as worms rooted in the ground (uhh) for that is the role of Izanami. Sometimes refers to Ragna as "brother". Whether that's the truth is unknown, but it reflects the intention of Saya. Hopefully someone fluent in Japanese will clean this up for me
Zedar90 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: http://www.blazblue.jp/cf/ac/character/izanami.html Backstory: something something body is the origin of the pods (Murokumo units?), something something 10th Prime Field device, Personality: Is cold, heartless, ruthless (given). For all life, it thinks only about the world as worms rooted in the ground (uhh) for that is the role of Izanami. Sometimes refers to Ragna as "brother". Whether that's the truth is unknown, but it reflects the intention of Saya. Hopefully someone fluent in Japanese will clean this up for me I'm lazy, so this will have to do. 1) is the sample for the primefields after no.10 2) bolded = all life. Thinks the role of Hades Izanami is to return everything of the world to nothingness. 3) Sometimes calls Ragna, but unknown if it's a reflection of Saya's will. On another note, it feels somewhat weird thinking about Izanami laying jigsaw puzzles while waiting for Hazama and Relius...
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Zedar90 said: Is the sample for the primefields after no.10 After no. 10... So she is like a Murakuno Unit No. 14? Something like ξ [Xi] -No.14-" (OK, I will stop it) Anyway, does her weapon have a proper name or it is a variation of Lux Sanctus: Murakumo?... Wait... Now I noticed something. ξ [Xi] pronunciation = 死 [Shi] Pronunciation 死 = Death... Oh god...
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Oh, I get it. Supervillain. Puzzles. Treats entire plan like one big one. Metaphors galore. Remember, Izanami from that other game (not mentioning in case of accidental spoilers) was a freaking gas station attendant in her spare time, guess she's not the idle type either way. "Is the sample for Prime Fields after no.10", so.....Murakumo units. Nothing new there then. Calls (for) Ragna? That's odd considering that she's his only apparent dislike. Either it's referring to her fondness for him in CP..... or could it be cries for help in CF?
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: After no. 10... So she is like a Murakuno Unit No. 14? Something like ξ [Xi] -No.14-" (OK, I will stop it) Anyway, does her weapon have a proper name or it is a variation of Lux Sanctus: Murakumo?... Wait... Now I noticed something. ξ [Xi] pronunciation = 死 [Shi] Pronunciation 死 = Death... Oh god... Referring to being the template for Lambda/Mu/Nu, most likely.
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