Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Axiomatic]

On 3/11/2016 at 1:39 PM, Contreras1991 said:

so where is Liquid and Solid Noel? xD

Shouldn't the analogy go:

Big Boss=Saya (the orignal and ambigously a dirtbag)

Solid=Noel (came out all together a decent enough person for the world they live in; gets used by people CONSTANTLY)

Liquid=Nu-13 (spiteful and has some questionable logic while fixating on certain relationships)

Solidus=?

Venom=Lamb chops (gets shafted but secretly important to a part of the plot and a nice person; Relius wants her in the sex dungeon stat since she has the glow)

17 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

So special quotes between izayoi and tsubaki confirms that they are more or less are separate entities Izayoi  tells tsubaki to look beyond the future while tsubaki is freaked out by her

Didn't we already know this since Act 1?

 

From my perspective Tsubaki is all like: 

"Captain Kisaragi, why are you acting so weird and talking about seigi?"

 

Izayoi be like:

"I'm gonna f****** murder Ragna for CP and hurting my future husband!"

[Toxin45]

I think mu-12 would be solidus since Noel lost her

[Yoshirocks92]

56 minutes ago, Axiomatic said:

Shouldn't the analogy go:

Big Boss=Saya (the orignal and ambigously a dirtbag)

Solid=Noel (came out all together a decent enough person for the world they live in; gets used by people CONSTANTLY)

Liquid=Nu-13 (spiteful and has some questionable logic while fixating on certain relationships)

Solidus=?

Venom=Lamb chops (gets shafted but secretly important to a part of the plot and a nice person; Relius wants her in the sex dungeon stat since she has the glow)

Ok why are we comparing BlazBlue to Metal Gear all of a sudden?

[churchblue]

Yes, this is starting to get confusing.

[Luminos564]

7 hours ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

Ok why are we comparing BlazBlue to Metal Gear all of a sudden?

Because the plot has taken a left turn at Albuquerque and Batshit Lane. Both games have a plot that is about as twisted and impenetrable as a granite octopus and require so much source material to make full sense of it all. Especially now that we're pulling in Bloodedge Experience and none of those novels will see the light of day in North America through any official means. Curiously, despite all the time travel, alternate timelines, Golden Tagers and shit, I still find BB's plot to be less confusing than Metal Gear's. Mori needs to pull in Taro Yoko's madness if he wishes to match/beat Hideo Kojima's diarrhea dialogue plot.

[Chaoschao222]

If the Metal Gear nonsense doesn't disappear by Act III, the thread will probably just stay on no-fun mode until console. I've let it rock for a while because there was no real harm, but it's just off-topic bs now.

[Yoshirocks92]

4 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

Because the plot has taken a left turn at Albuquerque and Batshit Lane. Both games have a plot that is about as twisted and impenetrable as a granite octopus and require so much source material to make full sense of it all. Especially now that we're pulling in Bloodedge Experience and none of those novels will see the light of day in North America through any official means. Curiously, despite all the time travel, alternate timelines, Golden Tagers and shit, I still find BB's plot to be less confusing than Metal Gears. Mori needs to pull in Taro Yoko's madness if he wishes to match/beat Hideo Kojima's diarrhea dialogue plot.

Indeed and I can't you reference Bugs Bunny with Albuquerque but in all seriousness it was pretty good. 

1 minute ago, Chaoschao222 said:

If the Metal Gear nonsense doesn't disappear by Act III, the thread will probably just stay on no-fun mode until console. I've let it rock for a while because there was no real harm, but it's just off-topic bs now.

Yeah and I kinda would like to keep talking about it since we could be expecting an trailer for Act III any day now.  

[MaximusMurkimus]

12 minutes ago, Chaoschao222 said:

If the Metal Gear nonsense doesn't disappear by Act III, the thread will probably just stay on no-fun mode until console. I've let it rock for a while because there was no real harm, but it's just off-topic bs now.

Wouldn't this be more appropriate to say when Act 3 drops?

I'm all for on-topic posting, but when Metal Gear is the closest thing we have to a comparison to form hypothesis out of, I don't see it as off-topic at the moment.

[Chaoschao222]

5 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Wouldn't this be more appropriate to say when Act 3 drops?

I'm all for on-topic posting, but when Metal Gear is the closest thing we have to a comparison to form hypothesis out of, I don't see it as off-topic at the moment.

It was an appropriate thing to say a week ago, but I let it rock for the sake of "fun." But fun things are not meant to consume the thread, they're just meant for some cute little tangent posts. This isn't a "compare BlazBlue to every trope it may or may not draw inspiration from thread." It's a thread for CF discussion and speculation, so arbitrarily assigning Snakes to characters because there may be two entities of Noel is completely off-topic.

That you don't see it as off-topic is precisely why I'm here, because otherwise we'd end up with the CS thread again, and nobody wants another CS thread.

[Luminos564]

So here's a neat little tidbit. Looking over Haku-men's Act II arcade run it seems upon finishing his fight with Izanami, the Shinto Bling Miko refers to herself (in this translation at least) as "that woman's" (referring to Amaterasu's occupant) "antonym". Antonyms are words that are the direct opposite in meaning to another one, like "happy" and "sad" or "strong" and "weak". I thought this particularly curious if Izanami truly is the manifestation of "that woman's" Drive. I bring this up since XBlaze brought up the point that Drives are the embodiment of one's soul. Now, here's the other fun part about this: antonym is merely the definition of what Izanami is, but it does not confirm what her alignment is (like say "good" or "evil").

Meanwhile, I am intrigued by how Haku-men senses "the Dark One" within Naoto's arm. I remember making claim that both Naoto and Ragna are Touya's "Chronophantasma" or at least parts of him. It's possible, what with Drives being souls and whatever, that Naoto is the "soul" since he wields Bloodedge while Ragna is the "body" for which it is meant to inhabit. He's already had to form the body for the Black Beast before so perhaps there lies a connection. Though there is a bit of a mess, namely in Ragna's Azure arm. We know because of CP that the thing basically copy-pastes injuries he sustains even when phenomena intervention resets time. But if Ragna's body is "soulless", then how can the Azure arm inflict wounds on him in the first place? Unless of course he DOES have a soul, just not the one his "body" was meant to have. But in that case: whose soul is it?

[Contreras1991]

Reading all the theories of the Es  of xblaze  makes sense that she will help or sort of to defeat Nine, if they met before  (Xblaze Lost Memories). Regarding Es, ¿she was the original murakumo unit?. And the Touya part too, but that would mean that everything is kind of fake in the blazblue universe?

 

[Toxin45]

Well the world of Blazblue is based on the master unit's dream

[Ogiga99]

On March 11, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Axiomatic said:

Didn't we already know this since Act 1?

 

From my perspective Tsubaki is all like: 

"Captain Kisaragi, why are you acting so weird and talking about seigi?"

 

Izayoi be like:

"I'm gonna f****** murder Ragna for CP and hurting my future husband!"

Can someone give me more details on all the Tsubaki/Izayoi stuff we've learned? Like what Toxin45 about "special quotes", does that mean pre-battle quotes, which are of questionable canonicity with mirror matches (in CP Hazama looks at himself and wonders "what's gonna happen"), or can they face each other in Arcade Mode? The second one might be confirmation. Also is that Act I or Act II? If it's Act I than one of the 2 could be a fake projection of the character and not the real deal. For Axiomatic, I'm assuming you mean their general attitudes in Arcade Mode are different, but all that proves is that only Izayoi has her CP memories, not that they are physically separate people. Unlike with Noel and Mu or Hazara and Terumi there is no good reason for the split so until I can see a summary of their Act II Arcades and how they deal with her meeting Izanami twice I'm going to stick to the Izayoi Act I -> Tsubaki Act I -> Tsubaki Act II -> Izayoi Act II theory I mentioned a while ago.

 

23 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

So here's a neat little tidbit. Looking over Haku-men's Act II arcade run it seems upon finishing his fight with Izanami, the Shinto Bling Miko refers to herself (in this translation at least) as "that woman's" (referring to Amaterasu's occupant) "antonym". Antonyms are words that are the direct opposite in meaning to another one, like "happy" and "sad" or "strong" and "weak". I thought this particularly curious if Izanami truly is the manifestation of "that woman's" Drive. I bring this up since XBlaze brought up the point that Drives are the embodiment of one's soul. Now, here's the other fun part about this: antonym is merely the definition of what Izanami is, but it does not confirm what her alignment is (like say "good" or "evil").

Meanwhile, I am intrigued by how Haku-men senses "the Dark One" within Naoto's arm. I remember making claim that both Naoto and Ragna are Touya's "Chronophantasma" or at least parts of him. It's possible, what with Drives being souls and whatever, that Naoto is the "soul" since he wields Bloodedge while Ragna is the "body" for which it is meant to inhabit. He's already had to form the body for the Black Beast before so perhaps there lies a connection. Though there is a bit of a mess, namely in Ragna's Azure arm. We know because of CP that the thing basically copy-pastes injuries he sustains even when phenomena intervention resets time. But if Ragna's body is "soulless", then how can the Azure arm inflict wounds on him in the first place? Unless of course he DOES have a soul, just not the one his "body" was meant to have. But in that case: whose soul is it?

Minor nitpick but Drives being a manifestation of the soul's power comes from Bloodedge Experience, not XBlaze (the Drives developed by Unions are completely different).

Any possible relationship between Ragna Naoto and Touya does not fit into any type of Chrono Phantasma we know of. None of them are a time displaced clone like Celica and they do not exist outside of fate like Rachel and Noel. The fact that Naoto has a clearly established natural birth (the Hunter's Eye is a hereditary trait of the Terumi Clan) makes it hard for Touya to have a role in his existence.

A Drive isn't someone's soul, it is the power of a soul manifested physically by accessing the Azure. This is important because it means a soul's form reflects the nature of the Drive. Naoto's soul has a body to manifest Bloodedge and Ragna has to have a soul in his body to live and for the scarring of the soul you mentioned so they can't be a pair like that. Granted it's possible that somehow it is the same soul in different times (considering Ragna recognizes Bloodedge and my personal theory has been that Ragna has Bloodedge as his true "soul" Drive since Soul Eater comes from the Azure Grimoire) and the mystery guy in BE suggests that something like this might be the case but it's a strange case. One thing that confuses me is Touya's Drive. He can manipulate his blood to create weapons like Naoto, however Touya's Drive is never explicitly named Bloodedge. We don't see enough of Touya's Drive to know if it works exactly the same as Naoto's (all he does with it is copy Murakumo) so they might be similar but different Drives like Silpheed and Tempest.

 

19 hours ago, Contreras1991 said:

Reading all the theories of the Es  of xblaze  makes sense that she will help or sort of to defeat Nine, if they met before  (Xblaze Lost Memories). Regarding Es, ¿she was the original murakumo unit?. And the Touya part too, but that would mean that everything is kind of fake in the blazblue universe?

 

Es isn't a Murakumo Unit and isn't the 0th Prime Field Device. The 0th was believed to be built by Relius (way later than XBlaze) and had a very different purpose from Es. The Murakumo Units are Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices which are designed to explore the Boundary. Es is (or was) a Manifest Boundary Contact Prime Field Device, which sounds similar but is completely different, whose purpose was to inherit the Embryo. Kiiro is a third kind knows as a Dimension Boundary Contact Prime Field Device but we don't know what her unique purpose is besides that she has a Murakumo form similar to Nu, Lambda and Mu. Whether Es and Kiiro's kind of Prime Field were prototypes that would eventually lead to the Murakumo Units in BlazBlue is unknown.

[Suzaku]

That speculation about Naoto and Ragna being Chronophantasma sounds a bit needlessly complex to me. Not that BlazBlue isn't fairly convoluted, just that... It's already been sort of hinted that Ragna, Jin, and Saya were created in a lab, probably as clones of the Black Beast after its defeat during the Dark War.

Bloodedge Experience pretty clearly takes place between XBlaze and the start of the looping timeline. So, before the first loop, you had Naoto Kurogane, whose birth name was Naoto Terumi, along with Saya Terumi and (probably) Yuki Terumi. Three siblings, all with obvious parallels to Ragna, Saya, and Jin.

If you think of all the loops as occuring sequentially, which is technically what happened (at least from the perspective of an observer), then of course you still need the first version of history that set the loop into motion. Which means you need a Black Beast that isn't Nu-13, a Bloodedge that isn't Ragna, and a Haku-men that isn't Jin.

Well, Saya Terumi's drive is Souleater, Naoto Kurogane's drive is Bloodedge, and Yuki Terumi once occupied the Susano'o Unit.

Of course, there's also Touya, Es, and the other XBlaze characters to consider. And, obviously, Naoto's gotten himself in some weird time travel stuff with Central Fiction, in that he seemingly leapt through time and wound up completely avoiding that hundred year-stretch of looping timeline. I frankly wouldn't be surprised if he winds up taking something from the post-loop world back into the pre-loop world that helps set the original loop into motion... but, who knows?

At this point I can't really tell how all the pieces fit together, but the parallels between those characters seem too strong to just be coincidence.

[Toxin45]

Yuki terumi is not terumi's real name Mori confirmed that and he is not related to the terumi clan but Ragna's case it's because he is called the original. Saya was clearly meant to be the vessel for Izanami and Jin I think he was the only natural born probably an orphan.

[FKGunBlaze]

Just now, Toxin45 said:

he is not related to the terumi clan

When was this deconfirmed?

[Toxin45]

8 minutes ago, GunBlazer said:

When was this deconfirmed?

On break buraji radio Yuki terumi's name is just another fake one

[Toxin45]

The win quotes I got from tsubaki and izayoi are from tvtropes Blazblue forum ask blackyakuza

[Luminos564]

3 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Minor nitpick but Drives being a manifestation of the soul's power comes from Bloodedge Experience, not XBlaze (the Drives developed by Unions are completely different).

Alrighty. Thanks for pointing out any potential mistakes on my part. It's a learning experience and it helps others better understand the BB lore.

3 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Any possible relationship between Ragna Naoto and Touya does not fit into any type of Chrono Phantasma we know of. None of them are a time displaced clone like Celica and they do not exist outside of fate like Rachel and Noel. The fact that Naoto has a clearly established natural birth (the Hunter's Eye is a hereditary trait of the Terumi Clan) makes it hard for Touya to have a role in his existence.

I dunno man. Documents can always be forged and memories altered. Naoto inheriting a genetic trait from the Terumi clan could easily be the machinations of an outside force. But since I haven't the proof, I'll go off the rest assuming he is a naturally born human. In the case of Ragna, Jin and Saya however, they are all but stated to not be normal people. Well, perhaps Jin is (Power of Order notwithstanding) but Ragna and Saya are definitely not "normal". I called both Ragna and Naoto "Chronophantasma" because the way I interpreted the information, "those that shouldn't exist". Naoto has constantly been told to get back to his world and that "he doesn't belong" in BB. Similarly, Ragna could technically be called one when he travels to the Phase Shift era. If that is ultimately wrong of me, I'll gladly rescind the claim.

But something is definitely up with both Naoto and Ragna. Haku-men senses "the Dark One" within Naoto's arm. Ragna is familiar with the Bloodedge Drive. Naoto is actively seeking Ragna out along with Raquel (though she's his primary focus). And lest we forget the big whopper: Naoto's "presence" is apparently identical to Ragna and his own existence is slowly overriding Ragna's. The only question that remains is "why" that all is.

3 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

A Drive isn't someone's soul, it is the power of a soul manifested physically by accessing the Azure. This is important because it means a soul's form reflects the nature of the Drive. Naoto's soul has a body to manifest Bloodedge and Ragna has to have a soul in his body to live and for the scarring of the soul you mentioned so they can't be a pair like that. Granted it's possible that somehow it is the same soul in different times (considering Ragna recognizes Bloodedge and my personal theory has been that Ragna has Bloodedge as his true "soul" Drive since Soul Eater comes from the Azure Grimoire) and the mystery guy in BE suggests that something like this might be the case but it's a strange case. One thing that confuses me is Touya's Drive. He can manipulate his blood to create weapons like Naoto, however Touya's Drive is never explicitly named Bloodedge. We don't see enough of Touya's Drive to know if it works exactly the same as Naoto's (all he does with it is copy Murakumo) so they might be similar but different Drives like Silpheed and Tempest.

Well it depends on which Touya we're going for. The one in Code Embryo was in reality the Grimoire of Origin and was merely masquerading as "Touya" due to Hinata wishing to bring the original Touya back to life. This is why he doesn't actively use that Drive during that time and instead his power manifests as something straight out of Ragna's repertoire until he gains XBlaze. Touya in Lost Memories recovers the original Drive he would have had in Code Embryo. However I am with you in that leaving it unnamed is particularly confusing. Unless of course revealing its name would give away a big secret. And we all know how Mori loves to keep those don't we?

Ultimately, I think we just don't have enough to connect all the dots. We've certainly got pieces but not the string to tie it all together. Least not yet.

[Toxin45]

On 3/12/2016 at 1:03 PM, Luminos564 said:

Ragna is the "body" for which it is meant to inhabit. He's already had to form the body for the Black Beast before so perhaps there lies a connection. Though the

Well it was confirmed that Touya in Lost Memories is the same one from Code Embryo but one thing I don't get is that how would Grimore! Touya would get the original touya's drive if it is the Grimore taking on his form.

[Zero_0]

Hello. Everyone. I'm mostly a fan of Blazblue's fighting system but I'm also highly interested in the lore surrounding this series and its' spinoffs. As such, I thought I could present some of my theories and observations on Blazblue, Xblaze and Bloodedge Experience. Note, however, that I have no "unified" theories - just bits and pieces of thoughts, not necessarily backed up by facts, but still, I tried to construct them as well as I could. Also, for the sake of a better flow, I assume there are no "red herrings"/fan references present anywhere, and that everything is connected in some way.

Firstly, I would like to talk a bit about the nature of Blazblue's world, which I believe to have been an "Embryo" all along, having been created either by Amaterasu or someone else, and existing at the end of Xblaze's and BE's timeline. It's like this - at one point, the Xblaze-BE world was eventually completely decimated along with it's population, perhaps in the enormous world-razing war Terumi might have been referring to (with super weapons, etc), and not necessarily with the appearance of some kind of a Black Beast. At any rate, Amaterasu, its' creators or a "third party" having discovered the power of seithr, have decided to build something akin to a quantum sphere with a highly limited possibility of entropy (sort of similar to the Neo-Crystallia world of LR FFXIII and the spherical world of SMT Nocturne), with the aim of transmigrating souls of everyone died and/or alive to this new "World Embryo" to eventually rebuild the "Old World". Traces of the original people's relationships would appear in the new world, and here's where another part of my theory takes off.

In my opinion, several characters from Blazblue are reincarnations of key actors from Xblaze-BE timeline - the biggest, most visible case would be Makoto, who was recognized by Naoto as resembling "Yuki" (a very complicated character on her own, I will get to her later on) - and assuming he didn't just mean her chest, this would point in the direction of my "reincarnation theory" being somewhat true. Makoto's relationship with Noel (Hinata), Tsubaki (Kuon), Kagura (Akira), etc. as well as their general personalities, are all interesting to me in this regard. Meanwhile, there are other characters who might not be transmigrations of anyone from Xblaze, or might have a completely different set of circumstances - and I could "Yuki Terumi", Ragna, Jin and (partially) Noel among this latter category.

Does anyone remember this whole debacle about Ragna, Jin and ''Saya'' being rescued from some kind of a laboratory by Jubei? They were obviously either experimented on or created in an experiment. What if they were kind of "artificial reincarnations"? Who and how was reincarnated this way? Personally, I believe they were originally Touya's, Hinata's and Sechs' "shadows". In this theory, Touya's shadow would be Ragna, Hinata's - Noel, and Sechs' - Jin. If someone doesn't know what I am talking about, only three characters in Xblaze have these shadows, and they are the aforementioned three. Now, these shadows are most likely the original forms of Touya, Hinata and Sechs. Xblaze: Lost Memories talks about this the most extensively in "Black", "Green" and Sechs' DLC scenarios (and partially in Kuon's "Red"). All three of these characters had some kind of "previous existences" (Touya - original Touya who died after using his blood control drive too much in his childhood while trying to rescue his friend; Hinata - the original Hinata before she wished to recreate Touya during Wadatsumi Catastrophe and - in my opinion - actually NEVER ceased to be the successor of the Azure; and Sechs - the original human Sechs, who served as a basis for the homunculus one we see the most in the story) that seem sort of "dark" - most likely Seithr-based IMO - and, at least in specific circumstances, maintain mental connections with their "successors". These three shadows could have been reincarnated artificially as Ragna, Noel and Jin - also, the loving relationship between Tsubaki and Jin is paralleled in my eyes by the siblings' bond between Kuon and Sechs (who in his youth looked remarkably similar to Jin).

And now a theory about "Yuki Terumi". We know this is not the psychopath's original name, though as to its origins, there is nothing certain - maybe it's a reference to Yuki Himezuru or the one that Naoto knew, or maybe both? Many people versed in Japanese language also consider the possibility that it means "ghost" as per Terumi's designation in the world of Blazblue. Or maybe in fact, all of these theories are true? If that's so, there is one thing that comes to my mind, and it's this: Yuki Terumi was originally Kiri, whose original drive placed in his eye ("Ripper") was destroyed at the end of Xblaze LM, and who ended in intensive care in a hospital - perhaps under care of Yuki Himezuru. Why did he even survive, though? Originally it was said that people who have their drive crystal torn, die. Then came the case of Akira, who forcibly removed his crystal and survived - and maybe this event taught Yuki how to save and treat Kiri. Also, the nature of Drive in Xblaze is that a concentrated crystal of seithr gradually hijacks a person's nervous system, eventually dissolving them into seithr. This seems to point to a relationship between soul, seithr and nervous system. Personally, when I saw Terumi's "ghost form" in BB CT, long before Xblaze games were even made, I have not considered it a ghost at all, but some sort of a freaky autonomous nervous system. How could it have come to this? Maybe in the enormous conflict Terumi mentioned to Kazuma, Kiri was placed in the newly-made Susanoo unit as a person who actually desperately wanted to be a hero. He then witnessed enormous destruction, death, and subsequently lost faith in mankind and everything else. When Amaterasu was to create the world of Blazblue ("The New World Embryo"), for some reason he was not allowed to transmigrate and find peace - maybe because of his post-drive body structure or due to some other factor. Subsequently to this, he torn himself out of Susanoo, went into Boundary ("the sea of seithr") and then jumped into the world of Blazblue, similarly to how Naoto time-travelled (to be honest, I don't think that was a pure time travel, but rather a dimension jump), and decided to bring his despair to everyone, including Amaterasu, who "rejected" him. His last name could have originally been Terumi, or Himezuru was a sub-clan to Terumi just like the relationship between Terumi and Amanohokosaka, or there were other reasons - and one of them could be related to Naoto, though this in turn would make this particular theory invalid.

Now, onto the topic of relationship between Naoto and Ragna (Touya's "shadow" as per my theory above) - I believe that they were both marked with their "seals" by the homunculus Sechs who is trapped in the Boundary, his existence infinite and tied to the sword of Kusanagi. He cannot reincarnate nor even manifest directly in the physical world, and he has been stated by Hinata's "shadow" to be her greatest enemy. He despises all interventions and loopings, but he himself cannot bring his desired world directly anymore. What he can do, however, is to make contact with individuals through the Boundary (we know this is possible) and engrave his "Deadly Sign" of them, metaphorically granting them a part of his power. He could have done that to both Naoto and Ragna, and then brought the former into the latter's world, perhaps to prepare for some sort of a merge-resurrection? Yes, in this theory Sechs would attempt to control the reincarnated shadow of Touya and make him merge with Naoto, while Sechs' own shadow (Jin) would oppose him. This "Under Heaven Destruction" would be a twisted version of Xblaze's Touya-Sechs conflict, in a way.

Sorry that this post is so long, but I'm about to end it soon. Who is Saya Terumi, what is her relationship to Amaterasu? No clear answers here, unfortunately. Still, there are certain factors that make me think that Saya Terumi could have been the first Boundary Interface Prime Field Device created by Relius as well as the first, incomplete reincarnation - or perhaps a copy? - of Hinata's shadow. I can definitely see some similarities between Saya Terumi's and Mu-12's omnicidal attitudes, and while Hinata's shadow as depicted in Xblaze wasn't shown to be so crazy, it was noticeably cold and harsh. When Hinata's shadow was later on more completely reincarnated as Noel, it could have either maintained connection with Amaterasu and its now possibly "empty" pilot, or was switched at some point with artificially created ("doll") Saya - who could have been a clone, soul-copy or even an incomplete Chrono Phantasma of Saya who is in the Amaterasu unit. I know a lot of people will now say "But Noel was born/created in Ikaruga and miraculously survived Take-Mikazuchi's attack!"......but is this really true? Maybe this "Noel" is not 5-year old, but was in fact brought by Terumi into the Ikaruga lab (again?) subsequently to his attack on the church, remodeled into Mu-12 and then attempted to be fused with, which of course failed. Izanami could be just toying with Ragna when she was imitating his sister (Noel's) voice; after all, like I said, there seems to be a definitive connection between Hinata's shadow, Saya Terumi, Izanami, Amaterasu and Noel - so much that it could have been the reason as to why Noel saw Amaterasu's pilot as herself. It could be in essence a type of a life link, or something similar to what happened between Nu-13 and Noel at the end of BB CP. In fact, the ending of act III's trailer seems to support my theory by showing that the "Noel" in Amaterasu is in fact Saya Terumi's body - and that Noel, since she is based on Hinata's shadow (whose "Embryo-Successor of the Azure" nature would make her intervention powers more dominant than those of Saya Terumi), would "observe" the pilot as herself. At any rate, I suspect there will be lots of different merges in BB CF, either in act III or in the console release's story mode.

Lastly, there are two characters about whom I don't have anything resembling a consistent theory - they are Nine and Hazama. The latter I heavily suspect not to be Kazuma's reincarnation, but in fact Ripper's, and the former - as we see her in BB CF - to be a merge between the Dark War Nine and the "Me-Nobody", who remained in the Phantom field following the release of the "Es-Nobody". The reason for this is the fact that the Dark War Nine was never shown to have the seithr-suppressing eye like the one possessed by "Me". Maybe after Terumi's attack she fell into the Boundary, where she made contact and merged with "Me" (whom I consider to be derived from a timeline alternate to Xblaze-BBE-BB)? I'm not really sure, these two characters - Nine the Phantom and Hazama - are in my eyes the most manipulative, most complex and deepest characters in Blazblue anyway.

Once again, sorry for such a huge post - I am sure I will be criticized by either mods or other members for it, but still, I wanted to give my opinion on this entire convoluted mess somewhere. Maybe, on the other hand, it will inspire someone, who knows.

[Contreras1991]

some people say that  terumi may be a recarnation of  Sōichirō Unomaru of Xblaze, he is usually calling by the name of Snake by some characters

[Ogiga99]

24 minutes ago, Contreras1991 said:

some people say that  terumi may be a recarnation of  Sōichirō Unomaru of Xblaze, he is usually calling by the name of Snake by some characters

Terumi cannot be Unomaru. For one thing they have completely different motivations and goals (Terumi believes the world is nothing but despair and should either by dead or filled with only the despair he believes in while Unomaru wants to save the world but believes the only way to do that is to remove free will by using Phenomenon Intervention to prevent anyone from doing anything violent or evil). Also how would Unomaru have previously been in the Susanoo Unit (which Clavis would therefore have only acquired less then 50 years before the Dark War) or gained all of the knowledge on Magic, Alchemy, the Boundary  and everything else in such a short time (especially the Boundary since the second Unomaru opened it he was killed by Sechs)?

 

5 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

I dunno man. Documents can always be forged and memories altered. Naoto inheriting a genetic trait from the Terumi clan could easily be the machinations of an outside force. But since I haven't the proof, I'll go off the rest assuming he is a naturally born human. In the case of Ragna, Jin and Saya however, they are all but stated to not be normal people. Well, perhaps Jin is (Power of Order notwithstanding) but Ragna and Saya are definitely not "normal". I called both Ragna and Naoto "Chronophantasma" because the way I interpreted the information, "those that shouldn't exist". Naoto has constantly been told to get back to his world and that "he doesn't belong" in BB. Similarly, Ragna could technically be called one when he travels to the Phase Shift era. If that is ultimately wrong of me, I'll gladly rescind the claim.

I find it hard to believe someone could give Naoto the Hunter's Eye since the eye itself chooses the leader of the Terumi Clan. It's not just a genetic trait, their is only one (at least at a single time). Also, one of the rules of both kinds of Chronophantasma is that they are immune to Phenomenon Intervention. We've seen Ragna get intervened on many times. Naoto was also subject to Phenomenon Intervention in BE and I think CF but I'm not positive on the second one. Phase Shift Ragna seems very different since his traveling there is the Time for Decision. He essentially sets the history of the Dark War in stone by going back meaning he makes it so he does belong there, in fact his presence becomes irrefutable fact. In general Boundary time travel isn't seen as weird or out of place in any case except Naoto (Nine, Terumi, Hakumen, Platinum/Trinity, Jin etc.).

[churchblue]

I wonder if Naoto is fated to meet Es for some important reason.

[Luminos564]

15 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

I find it hard to believe someone could give Naoto the Hunter's Eye since the eye itself chooses the leader of the Terumi Clan. It's not just a genetic trait, their is only one (at least at a single time).

Well Blazblue kinda dumps all over the whole "only one" deal. Remember how Noel was the only one Amaterasu deemed to be the Eye of the Azure? Yeah, CP decided to steamroll over that by making Nu-13 synchronize with her, thus bypassing the ruling and we ended up with 2 different girls who shared the same power. But something tells me the Hunter's Eye will not get much focus in CF as opposed to his overall connection to Ragna and Raquel, so I won't dwell on this anymore.

16 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Also, one of the rules of both kinds of Chronophantasma is that they are immune to Phenomenon Intervention. We've seen Ragna get intervened on many times. Naoto was also subject to Phenomenon Intervention in BE and I think CF but I'm not positive on the second one.

Now see, here's what I do not understand: when you say "immune to Phenomena Intervention" what exactly does that entail? Does that mean they recall the events that happened prior to the time reset? Because Ragna's Azure arm more or less does that in CP when he recalls his arcade run, recognises Bullet by name (despite meeting her for the first time now) and keels over in pain as all the injuries he got. There's even snippets in past loops where after he falls into the Cauldron with Nu-13 that he thinks to himself that "this event is happening again" before wondering how would he know that.

Now, I am very likely wrong in calling him a Chronophantasma but there it's not like he's completely susceptible to Phenomena Intervention either. He's even able to recognise PIs when they happen when most people shouldn't be able to tell. Then again, Mori's explanations aren't exactly consistent all the time so if you've got a more sensible explanation I will gladly listen to it.