BlazBlue Setting Material Collection Information

[mAc Chaos]

Well, my problem with that idea with him possessing Jin is, if Terumi DID possess Jin, then Ragna wouldn't know anything about Terumi. All Ragna would have seen is Jin killing everyone.

I think in that scene, it implies that Terumi shows up there, physically. At first Ragna mentions Jin, because he hears him. He can't SEE Jin through the smoke, but he assumes the clouded figure is him. Then the game says "a man" emerges, and Jin and Ragna are still kids then.

It makes sense; when Terumi is laughing at Ragna, Ragna is still telling Jin to run away and take Saya with him. It doesn't seem to have registered with him that Jin was with Terumi, so Jin must have just been standing there watching it happen to Ragna while Terumi was doing everything. That's why Ragna's all confused when Jin starts saying things that sound like he's against Ragna; Ragna's like "what are you talking about?" since Jin hadn't done anything to make Ragna think he was hostile.

So I think he actually showed up, cut off Ragna's arm, then hauled Jin off with him. That makes me wonder what Ragna is mad at Jin for though... and Jin still talks about the incident as if he was the one who did it.

The picture of the Six Heroes kind of looks like the Terumi we see at the end of the game... so it feels like he still had the Hazama (his real) body.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Hasn't any info come out from that drama cd "The Happy Trigger" by now? I'm sure it would help to clear things up story wise.

[Soothesayer]

Terumi probably takes on his spiky hair form when he unleashes his true power no matter which body he's in. And since the game implies that Terumi was there on the church incident(he killed the old lady in fact, who was Nine's sister), he was either not seen entirely by Ragna or not Hazama back then.

[seipherzero]

Hasn't any info come out from that drama cd "The Happy Trigger" by now? I'm sure it would help to clear things up story wise.

No, the happy trigger drama cd are all skits. I'm not fluent in Japanese, but here's a synopsis of each to the best I understand them.

乙女の秘密の内緒の温泉 (Maiden's Secret Private Hot Springs)

There's a trip to the Kaka hot springs with Tao, Litchi, Noel, and Rachel where they all get drunk and start talking about cherries, bananas, and Litchi's panda.

ジンパパと兄型ロボ (Jin-papa and Anigatarobo, 3 parts)

This is a 3-part story where Jin creates "Anigata-robo", Ragna-tan. He eventually bonds with it, only for it to be destroyed by Ragna when it tries to protect Jin.

ノエルのドキドキ通販生活 (Noel's "Doki-Doki" Mailorder Life)

Short story about a kind of "shut-in" Noel who stays at home and orders everything via mail. Ragna is a pizza-delivery guy in this one. Jin is "Yojigen?" Pot (I think a cooking pot) salesman.

ラグナ太郎物語 (Legend of Ragnataro)

Another one is a parody of the japanese "Momotaro" story where Ragna=Ragnataro, Tao=dog, Bang=monkey, Rachel=pheasant (rabbit). Noel plays "Grandpa" Noel and one of the oni, Litchi plays "Grandma" Litchi and the other oni.

バイトだよ! ラグナくん (Part-time Job! Ragna-kun)

Ragna loses some mahjong matches with Rachel. The loser is required to do whatever the winner says. Rachel puts a "Nyan" curse on Ragna, where Ragna starts saying "Nyan" after everything he says. Rachel commands Ragna to get a part-time job to buy some tasty tea.

These are all really funny, and are great to listen to ;].

[iamkitkatbar]

ノエルのドキドキ通販生活 (Noel's "Doki-Doki" Mailorder Life)

Short story about a kind of "shut-in" Noel who stays at home and orders everything via mail. Ragna is a pizza-delivery guy in this one. Jin is "Yojigen?" Pot (I think a cooking pot) salesman.

sounds like a porn story

ill take 20

[BigNastyStyle]

Well, my problem with that idea with him possessing Jin is, if Terumi DID possess Jin, then Ragna wouldn't know anything about Terumi. All Ragna would have seen is Jin killing everyone.

I think in that scene, it implies that Terumi shows up there, physically. At first Ragna mentions Jin, because he hears him. He can't SEE Jin through the smoke, but he assumes the clouded figure is him. Then the game says "a man" emerges, and Jin and Ragna are still kids then.

It makes sense; when Terumi is laughing at Ragna, Ragna is still telling Jin to run away and take Saya with him. It doesn't seem to have registered with him that Jin was with Terumi, so Jin must have just been standing there watching it happen to Ragna while Terumi was doing everything. That's why Ragna's all confused when Jin starts saying things that sound like he's against Ragna; Ragna's like "what are you talking about?" since Jin hadn't done anything to make Ragna think he was hostile.

So I think he actually showed up, cut off Ragna's arm, then hauled Jin off with him. That makes me wonder what Ragna is mad at Jin for though... and Jin still talks about the incident as if he was the one who did it.

The picture of the Six Heroes kind of looks like the Terumi we see at the end of the game... so it feels like he still had the Hazama (his real) body.

When rachel sees Hazama/Terumi he says or she says something about his new look or something like that.

[Captian Soviet]

ラグナ太郎物語 (Legend of Ragnataro)

Another one is a parody of the japanese "Momotaro" story where Ragna=Ragnataro, Tao=dog, Bang=monkey, Rachel=pheasant (rabbit). Noel plays "Grandpa" Noel and one of the oni, Litchi plays "Grandma" Litchi and the other oni.

Noel and Litchi as Grandpa and Grandma? WTF?

[Irrsinn]

I think I read that Terumi IS possessing Hazama somewhere, but I don't know.

[Suzaku]

Umm..correct me if I'm wrong but...

Why does everyone think Terumi and Hazama are two different people? How do we know this "Hazama" even existed? We know next to nothing about Terumi's powers or plans, for all we know he has been using the alias of "Hazama" to hold a high position within the NOL for his plans (sorta like Aizen from Bleach). Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that "Terumi is possesing Hazama, ZOMG!"

Also one thing that really puzzles me is in Noel's story when she encounters Jin, Hazama is with her and is apprealy nearly killed by Jin, yet not once did Jin acknowledge he was there, and this scene is played in reverse perspective and there's no indication of anyone else being there...

They're listed as two seperate characters in the Setting Materials Collection character relationship chart, and their relationship is blatantly stated as Terumi -[Possesses (憑依)]-> Hazama.

How big of an influence Terumi has over Hazama isn't stated, but it's generally implied that he's got full control over him, at the very least while possessing him, since he does briefly leave Hazama's body to visit the Alucard castle.

Hazama's probably not the first or only body he's controlled, because Ragna clearly knows about Terumi, but doesn't recognize Hazama. And he was probably possessing another body during the Dark War, if only because that was 90 years before the game and Hazama looks pretty young.

My personal Terumi theory is that before the time loop, he was bound to the Susano'o Unit as "Dark Susano'o". We can pretty safely assume he was behind at least some of the dimensional boundary contact medium experiments, since he kidnapped Saya, who was obviously a template for Lambda, Noel, and Nu. That means he was probably trying to temper an Anti-Sankishin Unit, and as such, it stands to reason that he wants to use it against one or all of the Sankishin. Likewise, the Anti-Sankishin Units are also called Murakumo Units, and Ama-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi was the name of Susano'o's sword.

You can extrapolate some more ideas from the theory if you consider the roles of Susano'o and his siblings in Japanese mythology, the parallels between Orochi and the Black Beast, and how the BB Chronology implies that the first dimensional boundary contact experiment resulted in the original Black Beast and start of the time loop.

[SolxBaiken]

Thank you Suzaku for that insight, not my mind is at ease and new speculation can begin. I love that BlazBlue is so deeply rooted into Japanese mythology esspecially concerning the "3 Sacred Treasures" and the tale of the "Yamatano Orochi". It's like King of Fighters but without the suck! (don't get me wrong I love KoF, it's just ugh...) So now the big question is Why? Ugh Terumi's motives are so omnious that you could even say he wants to destroy everything because someone ate his ate PB&J sandwich >.< Hopefully CS will shed some light on just why he's evil... Also since I now know Hazama is being possesed, I wonder to what degree if any he is aware or this? When did it happen (pre or post joining the NOL)? And is he content with followingTerumi's plans? Maybe he'll try to break out...so many possibilties...ugh the answer just led to more questions but thank you Suzaku, I shall continue to delve...

[mAc Chaos]

If he originally controlled the Susanoo unit, I wonder if that means he has some special connection with it... that might let him possess the current user of it?

[Sorael]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but Why hasn't Hakumen massacred the shit out of Terumi yet? Considering his innate ability to see into people's beings, don't you think he would made some kind of connection between his past self's agenda and the shapeless terumi? Or maybe he simply forgot after being in the boundary so long or his sense of justice made him think himself=justice brother=bring justice to and thats how it is? And didn't Jubei tell Hakumen that Terumi was back? The way he responded sounded shocked and angry. Considering the alignment of the time, if he knew about Nine and her sister's death, I would like to think that he knew he had to be at the church that takes care of Ragna, Saya and himself when he was Jin and would put together the whole murderous agenda...or not Ughhh I don't even know where to start, this whole loop is killing me x_x what do you think?

[BladeOfJustice7]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but

Why hasn't Hakumen massacred the shit out of Terumi yet? Considering his innate ability to see into people's beings, don't you think he would made some kind of connection between his past self's agenda and the shapeless terumi? Or maybe he simply forgot after being in the boundary so long or his sense of justice made him think himself=justice brother=bring justice to and thats how it is? And didn't Jubei tell Hakumen that Terumi was back? The way he responded sounded shocked and angry. Considering the alignment of the time, if he knew about Nine and her sister's death, I would like to think that he knew he had to be at the church that takes care of Ragna, Saya and himself when he was Jin and would put together the whole murderous agenda...or not

Ughhh I don't even know where to start, this whole loop is killing me x_x what do you think?

*waits for suzaku to post something amazing >_>*

But this is why I feel Hazama and hakumen should have a theme song with each other. >_<

[Suzaku]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but

Why hasn't Hakumen massacred the shit out of Terumi yet? Considering his innate ability to see into people's beings, don't you think he would made some kind of connection between his past self's agenda and the shapeless terumi? Or maybe he simply forgot after being in the boundary so long or his sense of justice made him think himself=justice brother=bring justice to and thats how it is? And didn't Jubei tell Hakumen that Terumi was back? The way he responded sounded shocked and angry. Considering the alignment of the time, if he knew about Nine and her sister's death, I would like to think that he knew he had to be at the church that takes care of Ragna, Saya and himself when he was Jin and would put together the whole murderous agenda...or not

Ughhh I don't even know where to start, this whole loop is killing me x_x what do you think?

Hazama and Hakumen haven't had a chance to meet yet. Hakumen was sealed in the Edge for all the events you mentioned (he was sealed from after the Dark War until just before the game starts). Plus, he can't really remember much of anything about his life as Jin.

[Re4L14124c]

I think what Sorael is saying is that (given that Hakumen does remember his life as Jin; which we really don't know if that's true or not, at least he remembers Bang) since as little Jin he was poessessed by Terumi, he should know about it already and hence know who Terumi is in the past. I don't think that's a plot hole, though, since Hakumen probably DOES remember his childhood memories, and hence Terumi, and hence why Terumi's "locked up" and why he was so surprised when Jubei told him Terumi's back. Though if we go further, if Terumi was locked up Hakumen (->no Jin KISARAGI->no conflict with ragna->no cauldron fight->no going back in time->no Hakumen) would never have existed as he is now...

[Hustle Man 77]

I always wondered about Jubei's intentions. Since Ragna would become the Black Beast if his blood and Nu's joined, why did Jubei train him and help him to the city? I mean, Jubei and Hakumen were part of the 6 Heroes, but they have completely different plans for Ragna

[BladeOfJustice7]

I always wondered about Jubei's intentions. Since Ragna would become the Black Beast if his blood and Nu's joined, why did Jubei train him and help him to the city? I mean, Jubei and Hakumen were part of the 6 Heroes, but they have completely different plans for Ragna

Nobody knows what Jubei is thinking, I mean he doesn't even seem hold that much enmity towards Terumi and if he does it is nowhere near hakumen. Which he should I mean terumi murdered his gf/wife along with his sister in law.

Jubei comes off as very neutral with regards to what takes place I mean he just KINDA warned Ragna about hakumen waiting at the gate to kill him and was hell bent on it. Kinda sucky for a sensei if you ask me.

[Sorael]

Hazama and Hakumen haven't had a chance to meet yet. Hakumen was sealed in the Edge for all the events you mentioned (he was sealed from after the Dark War until just before the game starts). Plus, he can't really remember much of anything about his life as Jin.

I wouldn't necessarily say that but I guess some light will be shed on that if he meets him in CS but Re4L14124c summed it up a bit better than I

Nobody knows what Jubei is thinking, I mean he doesn't even seem hold that much enmity towards Terumi and if he does it is nowhere near hakumen. Which he should I mean terumi murdered his gf/wife along with his sister in law.

Jubei comes off as very neutral with regards to what takes place I mean he just KINDA warned Ragna about hakumen waiting at the gate to kill him and was hell bent on it. Kinda sucky for a sensei if you ask me.

I don't think it really would have made much of a difference if he knew or not, considering all the different outcomes that have happened. He seems to me like one of those people who are very capable of great things that try to shows others that they contain the same so he's just not the one great hero or most 'powerful' of them all. Makes me wonder what Kokonoe is capable of thinking about it

[zeech]

On a completely unrelated note, I notice BB does that thing where they have an equals between first and last names, like Noel=Vermillion, etc. I've seen it in other japanese games before, most notably Golden Axe Where does this convention come from?

[BladeOfJustice7]

On a completely unrelated note, I notice BB does that thing where they have an equals between first and last names, like Noel=Vermillion, etc. I've seen it in other japanese games before, most notably Golden Axe

Where does this convention come from?

It's there way have using dashes in their language when they are romanising certain words like we would say neo-conservativism, they would say neo=conservativism. Like how they put haku=men but we put haku-men, same thing nothing really big to it =].

Sorry if what I said wasn't very accurate in explanation

[zeech]

Really? I've never seen it outside of videogames and names though, in all my many years of gaming, manga and anime. Granted, i dont read mainstream japanese print media much... too much kanji...

[SolxBaiken]

Actually another factor of the "=" logo is simple seperation. When writing Japanese there isn't really spacing, you just read it as one string of words and know the seperation by the words, but when romanizing something or when using katakana it is found difficult to differ the words from one another, thus the "=" are another form of spacing for unfamiliar terms, that's why it's common for them to be featured in names like Ragna=the=Bloodedge. It's a bit outdated now a days but is still fairly used, however it is RARELY seen when the word/name is translated, you'll mostly only see it in katakana usage.

[Suzaku]

Katakana names are usually spaced with either an "・" or, more rarely, "＝". For example, ラグナ・ザ・ブラッドエッジ would be the more common way, but Arcsy tends to use the less common way, ラグナ＝ザ＝ブラッドエッジ. When they designed their UI, they translated it as Ragna=the=Bloodedge instead of the usual Ragna the Bloodedge. In other words, it's Engrish.

[Soothesayer]

On the subject of Nine and Jubei, it's never really stated they actually had sex with each other(putting it bluntly here) or were even lovers, for all we know Kokonoe could've been made in a tube or something using Nine and Jubei's genes for whatever reason.

[Suzaku]

According to the character relationship chart, Jubei and Nine are listed as being married (夫婦), with Kokonoe as their daughter (娘). Jubei, Nine, Sister, and Kokonoe are also grouped in a block labeled as the Jubei family (獣兵衛一家). Guess I should probably get around to translating that...