DC Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 Sweet I love personal matchup bullshit Noel vs ragna 5-5 vs jin 4.5-5.5 vs tager 5-5 vs rachel 4-6 vs nu 4-6 vs carl 6-4 vs arakune 4-6 vs bang 6-4 vs taokaka 5.5-4.5 vs haku-men 5-5 vs litchi ???
A.X.I.S. Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 In that case, I'd also like to throw out my ragna matchup thoughts. vs rachel 5-5 -once again ID makes Rachel's pressure less bulletproof. His range also makes getting around the spam easier. However, Rachel is still Rachel, you get cornered and you lose, Her damage output doesn't help either. vs nu 3.5-6.5 -Nu is very risky to ID and Ragna's big hitbox and clumsy jump make getting through swords annoying. If Ragna gets in, he can lop off most of her health in one go. vs carl 5-5 -Carl is annoying, but, if you get around the puppet, he's just a whiny little boy, and you can cut him bad. vs arakune 3-7 -F#%$ Arakune, I don't need to explain this one vs haku-men 6-4 -Both characters have good range and damage. Counters are a massive threat, but Ragna's mobility means that he's usually in control of this match. I wanna dispute this. vs rachel: 4-6. her zoning and lockdown is too good to be even ragna is a close range fighter and just like how ragna can ID through her pressure she can IB chair ragna's. also I wanna add that some of rachels block strings and pokes are safe even when you IB you still might night get it out. vs nu: its a 4.5-5.5 or 4-6 at the most, online nu is tough to punish but offline its not impossible to get in on her...just vary your approach and when you get in make the most of it...what hurts the most is her damage off her 2C and sword RC combo's. vs carl: 4-6. its too hard to safely approach him and if you make a mistake clap clap clap...also even if he isn't using clap then its still a slight advantage for him, he can also beat ID with his gear super. vs arakune: 4-6. this fight is painful, his air game is good and your only clear answer to his j.b is ID or a well spaced 6A, GH is a great CH tool in this match but if he guesses correct on a j.6A/B/C you gonna get cursed, just gotta get in on him throw out some pressure and pray he doesn't IB and run. vs hakumen: 5-5 or 5.5-4.5. gotta be real careful approaching this guy, ragna may have mobility but his blockstrings can get him in serious shit, in other words haku can hit harder than you and get corner if you play wrong also ragna can't jump in on hakumen and hotaru is something you need to respect hakumen as you get in.
FlyingVe Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I can see rachel being like that, but as long as you can block her mixup you can force her to respect your DP. Her lobelias are only a temporary defense, and once you're in its tough for her to get you off. Also, the cat chair isn't really that big of a threat, just don't do bounce strings over and over, and you will be able to react to the chair most times. By doing this and applying throws to your mixup Rachel will be damned nervous about using her crappy cat-chair. I agree on Nu, however, it's important to note that her damage output means that she only really has to hit you 2 or three times to give you a dirt nap. This matchup varies alot depending on how goo nu is, but it is 4-6 at best, probably worse. Carl really isn't all that bad, you can out range him in the air and ground and make it very difficult to impossible for Carl to approach safely, and ID will make him nervous about doing too much sandwich pressure. Again, if you can separate him fro his puppet, its over. Arakune is 3-7, all of ragna's options are crazy unreliable, and when they don't work (which is often) you get cursed and lose soon after. Also, ragna can not deal with the shield cloud. He gets it, you will get cursed (barring him not doing something dumb), and will likely lose. Ragna's size also makes Arakunes corner trap slightly more effective. As for hakumen, you absolutely have to respect his options, don't do alot of predictable bounce strings and you can scar him from countering too much. It's alot like what I said about pressuring rachel and her cat-chair, except Hakumen is a much worse character.
Overheat Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I agree with FlyingVe. A lot of it is just my personal match-up against Ragna, but Ragna's are generally very easy.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 for rachel you have to out play her. vs nu you really just gotta get in quick, you gotta make her guess wrong and kill her for it... vs a good carl your gonna have some trouble he really makes it hard for ragna to approach, his 6A is a decent anti air and if you try to cross nirvana you can get hit by 623D which is unblockable or blockstringed into 8D...in other words keep a eye on nirvana and get in do your thing and get out...the footsies here is good because ragna's 5B and 5C are good tools to keep nirvana in check...too back carl can rush you down and put you in a world of hurt if you do it. I don't make sense. 4-6 vs ara...the problem is online kunes are so bad its hard to know what to do...this is the gist of the match, keep arakune close...punish him if he straight up throws out a cloud...rush that shit down...22C all day. problem is his standard pokes are good, you gotta be well spaced for 6A to hit, and ID gets you cursed for 5-6k damage for free if you fail to connect. shield cloud is a problem but in this case I chose 2 things...one dead spike which if ara can react with 2D or wait it out...if ara moves around then things can get confusing...in this case I watch the cloud and look for a chance to DP or grab, oh and grab is a godsend in this match but much more rewarding in the air for ara as it is for you on the ground...let that sit in your head for a bit. haku-men isn't that bad in this game...get hit with hotaru's enough for 3-4k and you will respect him...
Leaf Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Stole DC's template Ragna: vs jin 5-5 vs tager 6-4 vs rachel 4-6 vs nu 4.5-5.5 vs carl 4.5-5.5 vs arakune 3.5-6.5 vs bang 5-5 vs taokaka 4.5-5.5 vs haku-men 5.5-4.5 vs litchi 5-5 vs noel 5-5 Jin vs ragna 5-5 vs tager 6.5-3.5 vs rachel 5-5 vs nu 5-5 vs carl 5-5 (not too much experience against good carls) vs arakune 4.5-5.5 vs bang 5-5 vs taokaka 6-4 vs haku-men 5-5 vs litchi 5.5-4.5 vs noel 5-5
Skye Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Arakune is 3-7, all of ragna's options are crazy unreliable, and when they don't work (which is often) you get cursed and lose soon after. Also, ragna can not deal with the shield cloud. He gets it, you will get cursed (barring him not doing something dumb), and will likely lose. Ragna's size also makes Arakunes corner trap slightly more effective. I think it's 6:4, Ragna just can't run and hit everything like he wants to, he just has to be patient, and learn to block Arakune's terrible and slow mixups. If Ragna IBs Arakune's jb, then Arakune is at a hard disadvantage, ID can beat any follow up at that point, and I've even eaten a 5B after hitting Ragna with my jb, the truth of the matter is that jb is good for fake pressure, it's a terrible and unstable combo tool. jb only beat's 6a if Ragna poorly times it. It never beats ID on the grounds that ID at least has invincibility. Arakune lacks a solid way out of pressure. The best he can do is mash backdash, chick block, or just barrier you off of him. With meter the best he can do is either CA or IB > Super. On the flip side if Ragna chick blocks, Arakune has a terrible time getting in. And being forced to respect ID, we're not going to be too hasty. Thing is, once Arakune catches Ragna slipping, thats 5-6k. Arakune can also zone Ragna pretty damn hard, in and out of curse. It's not 3:7 to me, because 3:7 says to me "you have to rely on your opponent's screw ups to win", where as 4:6 says, "you must out play your opponent to win", and that definitely looks like the case for Ragna vs Arakune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqKnaB7MsQM
Chris Chaos Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 I have to side with Ve on this one. The match-up to me is a 7:3 favoring Arakune. Granted, Ragna has a decent amount of tools to use against him, and some can be used even if Arakune's in the air where he reigns king. A WELL timed aerial ID, and even J.D works (Crazy enough, I get alot of Ara's with J.D, don't ask me how but I just do.), it has a decent amount of reach but you MUST time it right or you will get dived on, the J.D is 50/50 against Ara's dive, if timed right you can get a counter. And 6A is Zeus, but it can fail if you time it wrong or get baited to do so, hell, all his moves if timed slightly wrong will fail, timing is everything in this match-up. Getting cursed it the major problem for Ragna (hell maybe for everyone), If you get cursed, and you aren't patient, Game Over. Thae crazy tactic to rush against Arakune when cursed gets the "NO" in my book, you must find the right time to counter no if's and's or but's. A near-impossible task, Don't get in a corner when cursed against Ara, he has a "lock combo" in the corner where he can guard crush and re-curse, this has happened to me against another Ara on PSN, probably the best PSN has to offer. Sadly he get's really gay when he starts to lose and no, Counter Assault will not help you in this situation, Ara is too far and he will just do a well timed ground bug to re-curse. The only character that I seen get out of this is Bang due to the fact that there's a sliver of space where Bang can throw out a D and teleports away, everyone else will get raped Granted, everyone will not play Ara like this but I'm going with the worst possible situation that I am. I've been here and it is shitty. I understand where skye is coming from but you gotta think of all of Ara's options and his possibilities, people will do whatever to win, you gotta remember that. So with that, I stand on the 3:7 match-up.
Skye Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Dive can be blocked, or chicken blocked if you're not that confident. On IB there's nothing Arakune can do but try to teleport away, which can be 5C'd. If Arakune attempts a different dive, he'll eat an ID, even on dive cancel, ID still beats that. I doubt Arakune vs Ragna is the slightest bit comparable to Nu vs Tager, and that's the archetype of a 3:7 match up.
FlyingVe Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 We're actually all agreeing with each other on how the match-ups work, just arguing over how severe they are. in my opinion, for ragna to win against an equally skilled opponent, he needs to guess right, or wait for the Arakune to screw up. To me, relying on luck and screw-ups sounds like a 3-7, but, to each his own.
OmniSScythe Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Jin vs ragna 5-5 vs tager 6.5-3.5 vs rachel 5-5 vs nu 5-5 vs carl 5-5 (not too much experience against good carls) vs arakune 4.5-5.5 vs bang 5-5 vs taokaka 6-4 vs haku-men 5-5 vs litchi 5.5-4.5 vs noel 5-5 Agreed with everything except this: vs Bang 5.5-4.5 With Jin capable of low profiling a lot of Bang option, nails being limited from locking Jin down and lowered damage output compared to Bang fighting one of the High and Mid size characters. It pushes slightly more in Jin's favor.
Lord Knight Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Sweet I love personal matchup bullshit Noel vs ragna 5-5 vs jin 4.5-5.5 vs tager 5-5 vs rachel 4-6 vs nu 4-6 vs carl 6-4 vs arakune 4-6 vs bang 6-4 vs taokaka 5.5-4.5 vs haku-men 5-5 vs litchi ??? Way off. Ragna beats Noel clean, Litchi beats Noel like 6-4, she beats Tager 6-4, she loses to Carl, only slight disadvantage vs Nu. Other matchups like Tao or Hakumen are a bit more questionable on where they are at, but Jin is definitely one of her worst matches.
Alzarath Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Hey can I get in on this Rachel vs Ragna 6-4 vs Jin 5.5-4.5 vs Noel 6-4 vs Tager 7-3 vs Litchi 4.5-5.5 vs Arakune 6-4 vs Carl 8-2 vs Bang 6.5-3.5 vs Hakumen 6-4 vs Nu 4-6
ZONG_one Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 CT had no 8-2 match ups. EDIT- Haha ok maybe Carl vs. Tager. But definitely not Rachel vs. Carl.
qwerty Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 CT had no 8-2 match ups. EDIT- Haha ok maybe Carl vs. Tager. But definitely not Rachel vs. Carl. arakune-hakumen was 9-1
DC Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Way off. Ragna beats Noel clean, Litchi beats Noel like 6-4, she beats Tager 6-4, she loses to Carl, only slight disadvantage vs Nu. Other matchups like Tao or Hakumen are a bit more questionable on where they are at, but Jin is definitely one of her worst matches. I'd say Ragna/Noel is closer to even due to his low health. Maybe 5.5/4.5 Ragna. Dunno about Litchi but getting past that stick is hard. BUT Noel does have a nice 5k off an airthrow on her. :3 Tager/Noel is even, maybe even in Tager's. Soz I've argued this too many times. Dunno much about Carl too, probably because every Carl sucks. lol vs. Nu is probably her worst matchup, she has no real blockstrings, everything can be backdashed out of. Jin/Noel is bad but nobody will every agree (especially Jin players, lmao) so I just say 5.5 Jin.
Skye Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 We're actually all agreeing with each other on how the match-ups work, just arguing over how severe they are. in my opinion, for ragna to win against an equally skilled opponent, he needs to guess right, or wait for the Arakune to screw up. To me, relying on luck and screw-ups sounds like a 3-7, but, to each his own. Sounds reasonable enough, but I say it's more like Ragna just needs to outplay Arakune. "making the right guesses" sounds about right though. Guess I can hop on this~ Arakune vs ragna 6:4 vs jin 5:5 vs tager 7.5:2.5 vs rachel 4-6 vs nu 3:7 vs carl 5.5:4.5 vs noel 6:4 vs bang 6.5:3.5 vs taokaka 6:4 vs haku-men 7:3 vs litchi 5:5
Spirit Juice Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 what would you say then? 7-3? Probably closer to that, yeah. I think the Japanese put it at 6-4 or 6.5-3.5? I don't think it was as bad as 7-3 though.
Alzarath Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 mm. I always felt the matchup was gay enough for Carl to warrant an 8-2 but that was going from personal xp. Then again, I never fought a Carl who was on that lvl with their char as jiyuna/stunedge/lk were with theirs.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 I have to side with Ve on this one. The match-up to me is a 7:3 favoring Arakune. Granted, Ragna has a decent amount of tools to use against him, and some can be used even if Arakune's in the air where he reigns king. A WELL timed aerial ID, and even J.D works (Crazy enough, I get alot of Ara's with J.D, don't ask me how but I just do.), it has a decent amount of reach but you MUST time it right or you will get dived on, the J.D is 50/50 against Ara's dive, if timed right you can get a counter. And 6A is Zeus, but it can fail if you time it wrong or get baited to do so, hell, all his moves if timed slightly wrong will fail, timing is everything in this match-up. Getting cursed it the major problem for Ragna (hell maybe for everyone), If you get cursed, and you aren't patient, Game Over. Thae crazy tactic to rush against Arakune when cursed gets the "NO" in my book, you must find the right time to counter no if's and's or but's. A near-impossible task, Don't get in a corner when cursed against Ara, he has a "lock combo" in the corner where he can guard crush and re-curse, this has happened to me against another Ara on PSN, probably the best PSN has to offer. Sadly he get's really gay when he starts to lose and no, Counter Assault will not help you in this situation, Ara is too far and he will just do a well timed ground bug to re-curse. The only character that I seen get out of this is Bang due to the fact that there's a sliver of space where Bang can throw out a D and teleports away, everyone else will get raped Granted, everyone will not play Ara like this but I'm going with the worst possible situation that I am. I've been here and it is shitty. I understand where skye is coming from but you gotta think of all of Ara's options and his possibilities, people will do whatever to win, you gotta remember that. So with that, I stand on the 3:7 match-up. 1. j.D beats some of ara's air pokes when spaced...its not so much a timing issue as a spacing issue, the way I see it is like this: if you get CH'd you spaced it wrong, if you CH him you spaced it right. dive shouldn't be a problem because you can block/IB it and punish...I do this all the time, even if ara does 2 dives he is running the risk of getting AA'd. but online kunes work because of lag...don't let them cloud your views man. also 6A and ID are AA's they can be baited and punished...its your job to guess right...6A tricky, you have to be looking for that j.b to catch him. 2. when your cursed your job is to get in a poke or grab...or wait it out, be sure to IB those bugs so you can CA or IB ID if he decides to pressure you. 3. again when ara is zoning you just block low, and move carefully, if he tries to apply pressure himself then refer to step 2 and for gods sakes look at his curse gauge. We're actually all agreeing with each other on how the match-ups work, just arguing over how severe they are. in my opinion, for ragna to win against an equally skilled opponent, he needs to guess right, or wait for the Arakune to screw up. To me, relying on luck and screw-ups sounds like a 3-7, but, to each his own. its a 4-6. its very doable but hard...you can win without ara making a mistake...you just gotta be smart. also being creative works good in this match, ara doesn't have good wake up options.
Justice7541 Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 If Ragna/Arakune is 3/7, then what would Bang/Arakune be? That entirety of that matchup is "maybe if I run around enough he will get bored and do something stupid," and if you so much as get cursed by a blocked cloud from fullscreen your best bet is honestly to just try to get hit by a D bug so you won't get hit by other stuff as much, because you're not going anywhere anyway. If Arakune has a 7/3 matchup it is definitely against Tager or Bang. Even Hakumen has an easier time of it.
qwerty Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 idk if you guys conveniently forgot how gay arakune was in ct but it was virtually impossible for hakumen to beat him nu and rachel were both managable, 7-3 or maybe 7.5-2.5 at the absolute worst. hakumen could not beat arakune, period.
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