Edge Reaper Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 I'm loving life right now. Ragna is low S tier, Hakumen is right behind him, and all the fuckers who caused me trouble are now below them both. Except for Bang and Litchi, but I was expecting that. Something that amused me is that Hakumen has a 6-4 matchup with Hazama. Oh and the fact that Hazama and Rachel have a 5.5 match-up with each other. But jeez, no one has the advantage over Bang. His worse match-up is with Litchi and that's even split 5-5.
dehumanizer Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 no... because bugs don't break guard. tager having actual AA's. lack of one shot curse. and rachel just sucks now. yea, i was playing my local tager. Ok, he subs tager, maybe not a great example, but still, he knew tager's bnbs. Anyhow, what i found was that during the match, arakune really really really doesn't want to approach tager in the slightest bit because of magnetism. Once arakune gets magnetized it seems like tager is in his "mode". Arakune can't really jump once this happens, because of tager's air grab, and arakune's ground game is almost non existent. This dilemma was still present in CT, but when you compound that with the fact that it takes a while to get curse and arakune's dive (j2a/b/c) got nerfed to oblivion outside combos, it makes it a really bad place to be in. Also tager's mixup/grab game seems to have gotten improved quite a bit. Basically, if ara jumps, he'll get magnetized in and be forced into tager's mixup/grab game and if ara stays on ground most likely, he'll be sending the spit bug(2d), which tager can sledge through. Arakune on the other hand, should be jumping out of crap to avoid magnetism from the start of the match and summoning clouds. Most likely during this time, arakune will be getting negative penalty if the tager is rushing him while ara is doing this. Once arakune is able to get a curse in though, it seems pretty game. I have seen comebacks from a full curse combo though since tager's damage is unbelievably high, so he still has a chance, though not very high. Basically, what i'm seeing is arakune running the hell away because of his not-so-good normals to avoid getting magnetized and to get a curse on tager. Whoever gets curse or magnetism usually ends up winning. I'm pretty sure that's why this matchp is 5-5. I may be wrong on some of this, so please correct my understanding of this matchup if possible.
worldjem7 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Posted February 26, 2010 Posted the new thread: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8432
Alex073088 Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 i really really disagree, with both the bang and taokaka match. both character can run away from your rush attempts,and once u start zoning they have easy ways in and out of your face past the zoning. I also noticed that while chasing both characters once i stopped and started to zoning....i was given a negative warning. and im like im not event he one running away. they run when u gonna rush, and them dash through your attmepts to start zoning and pressure u for free. edit: this is for rachel vs both said characters but whatever. i dont lose to either but i just dont feel like both characters are are at a huge disadvantage.
A.X.I.S. Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 i really really disagree, with both the bang and taokaka match. both character can run away from your rush attempts,and once u start zoning they have easy ways in and out of your face past the zoning. I also noticed that while chasing both characters once i stopped and started to zoning....i was given a negative warning. and im like im not event he one running away. they run when u gonna rush, and them dash throuhg your attmepts to start zoning and pressure u for free against tao. tao has to work her way in past the zoning and once you catch her she has no reversals but counter assault. if she is running away from your rush down then your not doing your rushdown right. like you guys said get them to block a frog then mix them up knock em down and drop a frog for oki, reapply yadayadayada. bang has nails but a random labelia can trade with him negating the whole point of this. plus you can barrier block and jump away from bangs pressure easily. other than that same as tao, get him into a frog then rush him down, hell use a pumkin in both cases, the pumkin makes it so they can't run or punish. besides this is CT. if someone wants to go into more detail then they can but as it is right now. no one will change this shit.
Alex073088 Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 against tao. tao has to work her way in past the zoning and once you catch her she has no reversals but counter assault. if she is running away from your rush down then your not doing your rushdown right. like you guys said get them to block a frog then mix them up knock em down and drop a frog for oki, reapply yadayadayada. bang has nails but a random labelia can trade with him negating the whole point of this. plus you can barrier block and jump away from bangs pressure easily. other than that same as tao, get him into a frog then rush him down, hell use a pumkin in both cases, the pumkin makes it so they can't run or punish. besides this is CT. if someone wants to go into more detail then they can but as it is right now. no one will change this shit. dude in order to zonin u have to set stuff up, the second you start to put stuff down both character clear the whole screen in a second and start there pressure on you, and you are not jumping a tk nail throw against bang, and u are not jumping out of a jump.c on block u will be in guard stun. and bang will meet you when you land, you arent jumping overheads on the start-up of your jump either. lobelia does not negate them all it negates only one nail.if your in the air, you cannont avoid the nails, nails take out the pumpkin easyly. and taokaka mobility nufflies having the pumpkin out as well. Gettin both characters under the frog isnt as elementary as you put, both can use there great mobility to dash away from it. i have gotten both characters under the frog after knockdown, or during pressure. but not naked, if i do that then that means the players arent good, both characters have tools that get them in rachels face, and out rachels face with a short amount of time, when both have there supers you are incredibly limited because both supers can go through projectiles(taokaka can catch a cannon shot on its recovery on reaction easyly with hers. tao has no dp, true, the second theres an opnening her drive allows to get to the other side of the screen within 2 seconds, u out a lobelia, then she drives back in you face, i definitely do not feel the matchup is 6-4 rachel favors mayb 4.5-5.5 or even because both characters have good pressure, once again u cannot jump out of a block j.c while standing on the ground you will get hit for not moving.
Dacidbro Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 If you didn't think the matchups were as bad as they were, against mid/low tier, there's a good chance your opponents were much better than you.
Raiza57 Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 i just wanna say bang doesn't have an even match up againist litchi because of her charcter size and her small hit box while crouching which makes bang whiff a lot of move like 5a or 5b at times. not even with hakumen because just hakumen play style leds him to be hard to pressure considering good hakumen's actually counter during pressure. and last he has a good match up againsit nu because his rush down game beats out nu zoning game
Lord Knight Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 Bang vs Litchi is very even jin 3.5 vs 6.5 bang in bangs favor...... and 3.75 vs litchi.... I already hated these matchups... but I don't even know how bang has that much advantage Seriously Jin vs Litchi is not that much in her favor, it's like 6-4. I wouldn't know about Bang though.
Ronove Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I almost confused this thread for the CS one :psy: Mods could you please add the CT tag in the thread's title?
Lord Knight Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 Whoops didn't realize this was the CT thread Anyways Litchi CT final matchups Nu: 5-5 Rachel: 5.5-4.5 Arakune: 4-6 Carl: 4.5-5.5 Jin: 5-5 Ragna: 5-5 Tao: 5-5 Noel: 6-4 Bang: 5-5 Hakumen: 5-5 Tager: 6-4
ATGMantenbo Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 where did u get this info from LK? Also Nu vs Tagar should be 8-2 or even 9-1 in my humble opinion
ZhePrime Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 where did u get this info from LK? Also Nu vs Tagar should be 8-2 or even 9-1 in my humble opinion No, it's not that bad. Carl and Arakune are wayyyy more troublesome. 7-3 feels about right for Nu vs Tager. But our opinions doesn't really matter and this chart and matchups won't matter much soon.
FlyingVe Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 As a Tager I agree, Carl and Arakune are much worse than Nu. Also 7-3 is a pretty catastrophically bad matchup as is. The other two (arakune and Carl) are borderline un-winnable.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 to this day I lament the fact that I lost to pigg half as many times as I did because of a silly hit confirm. also rachel is bad too but she feels more doable than the other 3. and jin is borderline 3-7.
FlyingVe Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 My opinion on Tager's CT match-ups for what it's worth (I am no expert): Ragna: 4-6 Jin: 3.5-6.5 Noel: 4-6 Tao: 3.5-6.5 Litchi: 3.5-6.5 Nu: 3-7 Arakune: 2-8 Carl: 2-8 Hakumen: 5-5 Rachel: 3-7 Bang: 4.5-5.5 Basically Tager sucks...
FlyingVe Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 With Tager, yes. He doesn't have anything to stop jin from just jumping into jB over and over again except IB'ing or an exquisitely timed back-dash. In short, Jin's Air to Ground is amazing and Tager's anti-air game is non-existant.
mAc Chaos Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Ah... that is hilariously what I beat my brother with all the time. We were trying to figure out what he could do against j.B jumps ins (Tager's 2C is what I thought, but it needs good timing) so I was going to ask if one of you guys would give him the answer... :X
Sophisticat Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Guess I'll do CT Haku match-ups, from worst to least-worst (imo, o' course). Ranking among similar match-up values are significant (i.e. Noel is harder than Tao for ex.): vs. Arakune: Not winnable assuming top Ara. 9-1 otherwise. vs. Nu: 3.5-6.5. Maybe 4-6 if you play perfect. vs. Rachel: 4-6 vs. Noel: 4.5-5.5 vs. Tao: 4.5-5.5 vs. Ragna: 4.5-5.5 vs. Jin: 5-5 vs. Carl: 5-5 vs. Litchi: 5-5 vs. Tager: 5-5 vs. Bang: 5-5 Now, personal match-ups, I'd change it to: vs. Tager: 2-8. I hate hate hate hate hate hate going vs. Tager. vs. Rachel: 2.5-7.5. Mix-ups, guard breaks, big damage, and zoning. Oh my. vs. Hakumen: 5-5, but I die a little inside every time. EDIT: To sum up Haku's matches in CT: you hate everyone pretty much equally and wish CS would drop already.
Lord Knight Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 where did u get this info from LK? Also Nu vs Tagar should be 8-2 or even 9-1 in my humble opinion This is from me playing a lot.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 My opinion on Tager's CT match-ups for what it's worth (I am no expert): Ragna: 4-6 Jin: 3.5-6.5 Noel: 4-6 Tao: 3.5-6.5 Litchi: 3.5-6.5 Nu: 3-7 Arakune: 2-8 Carl: 2-8 Hakumen: 5-5 Rachel: 3-7 Bang: 4.5-5.5 Basically Tager sucks... my exp. vs ragna 4-6 vs jin 3.5-6.5 vs tao 4-6 vs rachel 3-7 vs nu 3-7 vs carl 2-8 with loop 3.5-6.5 without loop vs arakune 2-8 vs bang 4-6 vs noel 4.5-5.5 vs haku-men 5.5-4.5 vs litchi 4-6 short reasons why: ragna: he's basic he has to get in close to do good damage (lol) he has to be more than most people when it comes to pressure but outside of that he has a advantage over tager which is mobility and ID. jin: almost all of jin's moves are safe vs tager, he can practically run up and do whatever he wants and as long as he spaces himself appropriately and mix it up, he shouldn't have a problem. tao: 2A stuff's tao's drive but we can't beat her C pokes, but what we can do is IB some of her stuff and react accordingly, she can low profile some of tagers pokes but she can't do anything but CA or DD out of pressure. vs rachel: this is impossible or very close to impossible. rachel can block string tager to death with no wind needed, she can punish backdash by winding some of her pokes, her zoning isn't so great but we have no good defense options when she decides to starts an offense, get blockstring'd to death and eat 7k+ from BBL ggs. vs nu: impossible to punish, she has to make a mistake or not mash backdash or random poke to lose. vs carl with loop: hit confirm a 2A or CH 5C and you lose, even if you burst its too easy to get hit again, only way you can survive is if you manage to punish his approach and weaken nirvana. vs carl without loop: nowhere near as bad as the clap but 5C can make it hard for you to play footsies and his resets are deadly, tager has to becareful in other words don't get sandwiched and punish his approach and j.2C's. vs arakune: can't pressure him but he can pressure us, and he has stupid zoning...ggs. vs bang: only thing we have on him is damage but even then he has a safer approach and FRKZ kills us. vs noel: she gets the worst of it when she makes a mistake, even with meter she can get baited and destroyed off the most single mistake..other than that 5k haida off stupid and A spam is her advantage. haku-men: he only has hotaru and counters...anything else he gets the worse end of the punishment stick...unless he has meter lol. vs litchi: its hard to approach and we get it bad in the corner.
XDest Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 I think this will become one final "Post your personal match-up experience" thread for CT, so I shall join in. vs ragna 5.5-4.5 vs jin 4-6 vs tager 6.5-3.5 vs rachel 3.5-6.5 vs nu 5-5 vs carl 5-5 vs arakune 3-7 vs bang 6-4 vs noel 5.5-4.5 vs haku-men 5.5-4.5 vs litchi 5-5
FlyingVe Posted June 23, 2010 Posted June 23, 2010 I think this will become one final "Post your personal match-up experience" thread for CT, so I shall join in. In that case, I'd also like to throw out my ragna matchup thoughts. vs tao 4.5-5.5 - Tao's mobility makes it hard to approach her and her drives are difficult to AA and she can bait the AA. Also, she can lo profile an alarming number of ragna's normals with crawl. However, she lacks defensive options and has trouble getting out of the corner. vs jin 5-5 -5B vs jB. ID and 6A gives ragna the tools to compete with jin. The Ragna player has to be more on point, but the match is about even. vs tager 6-4 -Tager sucks. Ragna still has to take a few risks but you can just poke Tager from outside his range, and he ain't getting away. vs rachel 5-5 -once again ID makes Rachel's pressure less bulletproof. His range also makes getting around the spam easier. However, Rachel is still Rachel, you get cornered and you lose, Her damage output doesn't help either. vs nu 3.5-6.5 -Nu is very risky to ID and Ragna's big hitbox and clumsy jump make getting through swords annoying. If Ragna gets in, he can lop off most of her health in one go. vs carl 5-5 -Carl is annoying, but, if you get around the puppet, he's just a whiny little boy, and you can cut him bad. vs arakune 3-7 -F#%$ Arakune, I don't need to explain this one vs bang 5.5-4.5 -Bang has good tools, but so does Ragna, and Ragna does good damage. vs noel 5-5 -Ragna as the better over-all moves and damage, but alot of Noels attacks can really screw with Ragna. Moves like 5D,2D,3C,5C beat the majority of ragna's normals, but lose to a few others. Alot of times it feels like a guessing game when approaching. vs haku-men 6-4 -Both characters have good range and damage. Counters are a massive threat, but Ragna's mobility means that he's usually in control of this match. vs litchi 5.5-4.5 -Litchi has range, but her pokes are slow and lose to Ragnas. ID is also a potential answer to the corner trap.
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