[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[neoghaleon]

Sorry for making a new thread, but I feel this is important enough to warrant it's own due to so many Combos needing this set up.

I've been playing for a while, and I'm still having a heck of hard time getting consistent 3C, 22D, IAD, j2C,Alle-can.

That must be like 18 commands needing to be done in less than 3 seconds, but it seems everyone here can pull it off so nicely.

Could somebody explain any trick to getting this consistently?

thanks so much.

[ZONG_one]

It doesn't need it's own thread, sorry.

It's simply a matter of practice.

Training mode is going to be your best friend.

Just make sure you start 22D during your 3C animation, before it hits, so you still have time to jump cancel it.

Took me like an hour or two to get right in training, since I never played guilty gear.

Only thing is, once you get it, you'll be using it all the time, so you'll only get better at doing it.

Just practice it. Plain n' simple.

[ZONG_one]

Probably CH 6A > 22D > Vivace A

[Adelheid]

6A 22D 236A 5A 5B jB jC 8D, (etc.)

is pretty easy to get. There's more damaging things, but they're way harder and don't always work depending on the height you catch the opponent at.

[ZONG_one]

Let that drop after 8D (possibly one more j.2C Allegretto 8D) and take oki.

That damage is going to be raped hard by proration.

[feri]

6a starter/p1 = 100%

5a combo/p2 = 82%

5b combo/p2 = 89%?

Proration is actually decent, its the initial damage thats low. Worthy of a full combo imo (it'd break 3.5k I think, we'll see soon enough).

[ZONG_one]

That's actually not bad.

I wasn't familiar with A's proration.

o.O

Also.

About that whole 3C vs. Haku 4C thing.

3C totally beats it. Even on whiff, it goes under it.

The only thing that could go wrong is if Haku started his move before you.

Then you are CH.

New finding:

CH 6B > 22D > IAD j.2C Allecan OTG > j.B > j.C > 8D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0pvI5MOZuE#t=2m13s

Also, new take on the loop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBRq9ql7MI#t=4m8s

All of Kyaku's videos are of him losing..

But he's still the top Carl at his arcade. 1st place according to ____Arcade's tourney rankings. The arcade escapes me. I just always like the crazy shit he does.

[Marionette Pwii]

maybe you should seperate what you're explaining from continuum shift and calamity trigger because thats what most of the topics I look at are all about now and it gets confusing yknow?

also needs moar videos

[Mascarpone]

this is CS discussion c.c CT discussion is another thread entirly.

so you can 3C under Haku's 4C? Is it safe on whiff? I know 3C has garbage recovery time so that would be the only big concern i would have.

Also on the CH6B thing, u can even do that in CT c.c I actually try to do something like that from time to time although my execution is poor. CH6B in general gives u allot of options because it pops them up quite allot and they fall very slowly o_O. I'm more surprised no one's tried this before really :O

Does using Volante in that loop actually count for anything more than fancy points? Better proration? anything? I dont know the numbers very well =S

[Mascarpone]

one thing that is very important to remember is that you need to have [D] buffered before u do the 22]D[ in the combo, otherwise nirvana takes too long to activate and will appear on the wrong side. I had this problem for a very long time with most of my summoning combos. IDK if that helps, but in general it's good to always remember that nirvanna comes faster when she's active :O.

also it's actually not as fast as u might think. You might be trying to do it TOO quickly. Which will hurt allot in the long run.

[Stitch]

hi guys, i am new to this char

and wish to ask a question, when i am doing j2C hop C 2D

why is it sometimes the C wont come out?

[Mascarpone]

Honestly I just mash C after j.2C and it works for the most part c.c

professional? no. effective? yes.

[Stitch]

hmmm well that is what i did too ! lol.

but sometimes it dont come out and i feel quite sad about mashing.

so i decide to ask all the pros here if there is another way to do this properly.

[Zoogstin]

I personally got fed up with that and just learned the timing. For the most part, now I just press C once at the right time and the C will come out. I'll double tap it at most. In any game when you have real tight window to do an inupt, mashing is very unreliable because that window may be between your button presses. However if you put to muscle memory the appropriate timing you'll have much more success.

[Stitch]

thanks Zoogstin,

so there is a timing when to press C.

Will go get use to it.

how about the hitbox for 2d. is it start from the point where nirvana raise her arm ?

[Zoogstin]

The attack box is pretty high yes. I can't say when it starts since I'm not playing the game but the attack box like I side is higher than you might think.

[DF2K]

2a, neutral, 2b+2d, 3c is a good way to start. Learning to buffer Nirvana is funky and will take time. So to restate the obvious, practice.

[DF2K]

The best way to learn the timing is to articulate your button presses and commit the rhythm to memory. This bugged the shit out of me for the longest time until I just practiced for an hour or so.

Edit: Also, this isn't really CS specific, but something I came up with in class and thought was worth sharing. With N-C-O positioning and the opponent in 2a/5a range, try 5a,fuocco+a-vivace (41236 a+d), after the vivace, start holding 6c. Fuocco is just long enough to charge up the 6c completely making it unblockable.

This isn't guaranteed obviously, as it's dependent on how fast your opponent reacts to the vivace, but it's definitely something you could throw out there randomly. Since your opponent would be expecting a full block string, doing it (41236 a+d) immediately after the initial 5a could trick your opponent into blocking long enough for fuocco to to start up.

[ZONG_one]

so you can 3C under Haku's 4C? Is it safe on whiff? I know 3C has garbage recovery time so that would be the only big concern i would have.

Does using Volante in that loop actually count for anything more than fancy points? Better proration? anything? I dont know the numbers very well =S

I'm pretty sure it's safe on whiff.

Hard enough to get two characters to do moves at the same time by myself, I'm not going to be able to do a follow up with Haku to test that.

And Volante, I'm not sure.

2D doesn't have repeat move proration, right? Can't see why he wouldn't use this.

I've also been playing with the idea that it might be a char specific combo.

Lambda being a fatty and all.

I dunno, I can never read damage values on youtube.

Edit: Also, this isn't really CS specific, but something I came up with in class and thought was worth sharing. With N-C-O positioning and the opponent in 2a/5a range, try 5a,fuocco+a-vivace (41236 a+d), after the vivace, start holding 6c. Fuocco is just long enough to charge up the 6c completely making it unblockable.

Kinda hard to buffer all that into an A.

Maybe 6B or something similar is better, but yeah, good trick every once in awhile.

If you're going to cross up with something from nirvana doing most of the work, 4D might be a better option that fuoco reset.

[DF2K]

Kinda hard to buffer all that into an A.

Maybe 6B or something similar is better, but yeah, good trick every once in awhile.

If you're going to cross up with something from nirvana doing most of the work, 4D might be a better option that fuoco reset.

I thought about that, too. The thing is is that after 6b during a block string there aren't any moves that cancel other than 623c or vivace itself, if your opponent knows Carl's gatlings they will know that it's safe to act, defeating the trick.

Blah, I don't know it's all theory really, I'll have to test it out when I play my friend again.

Edit: I was also wondering how 2c's new fatal counter properties could be utilized.

Consider the following:

Let's say that near the corner I do an air combo ending in 214c near the corner. If I 8d after the combo (to prevent them from teching out of the corner) they are forced to go straight down right? Well if they are coming down with an attack, like Litchi's j.b which has a good hit box below, would it trade with 2c, or would that get me a counter hit? If it would, what kind of stuff could you follow it up with?

Here's one idea:

2c, FC, j.2c allecan, land, j.2c allecan, j.c, j.2c, j.c,dj.c, j.2c, j.c, 214c. I'm not sure how that would prorate, but I know that j.2c does a significant chunk early-combo, and tacking on 623d in the middle wouldn't be a bad idea.

Ugh, so much stuff to test today.

[Kyle]

I like where you're goin DF2K.

Arakune is a beast. wow

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AutonomousR#p/u/36/7yZt6rvYpLU

[ZONG_one]

Here's one idea:

2c, FC, j.2c allecan, land, j.2c allecan, j.c, j.2c, j.c,dj.c, j.2c, j.c, 214c. I'm not sure how that would prorate, but I know that j.2c does a significant chunk early-combo, and tacking on 623d in the middle wouldn't be a bad idea.

Ugh, so much stuff to test today.

FCH 2C is useless so far.

Record that somehow, I would like to see it. Might make it viable.

@Kyle:

Yeah. I almost want to put a little time into him, but his movement is so weird to me.

S+ tier.

[DF2K]

I remember watching early CS vids with Arakune and noticing how 3 clouds are needed for a curse, then thinking he was crap. Oops.

[Kyle]

Guys,

we need to investigate "Burst Safe" combo choices, b/c this shit is ridiculous.

[ZONG_one]

We just need to not get hit in curse.

It's not that hard to defend, depending on how masterful the Ara player is.

And for God's sake, tech throws.