MisoSowee Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 it's generally 2147 for TK.... but the input'd be 663214c. (well for me it would since I roll the analog stick) I can't see how useful it'd be considering the awesome recovery on allegretto oh wait maybe when u land it goes away.... but you move up when u do allegretto..... i dunno x_x
stinkymonz Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 663214C might a bit too slow; assuming it cancels on all airborne frames 21466C might be adequate/more efficient. And since Allegreto follows the momentum of the move you cancelled it from (see: j.2C) then you might get like an awesome forward float before ALLEGRETO. Yes, I am quite hyped for Carl in BBCS TYVM.
4Corners Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Wow. So Carl's dash is even worse now? =( =( =( What's the start-up on allegretto? Cuz if it's short enough, couldn't we cut all lag out of our forward dash by just doing dash allecan? I imagine we're low enough to the ground that we'd just land, lag free. Applies to whatever version. Stinkymonz, I hate your av.
Zeero Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 The only reason why Alle-can works is because j2C has a downward trajectory. And if start up on allegretto is short, that means allecan won't exist because it takes use of its long startup =) Allegretto isn't an overhead move, and it has slow startup and recovery... so doing it off a dash is next to suicidal unless they change it or make it worth it like major chip damage or take off 2 primer (thats what they call guard libra now right?)
MisoSowee Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 The only reason why Alle-can works is because j2C has a downward trajectory. And if start up on allegretto is short, that means allecan won't exist because it takes use of its long startup =) Allegretto isn't an overhead move, and it has slow startup and recovery... so doing it off a dash is next to suicidal unless they change it or make it worth it like major chip damage or take off 2 primer (thats what they call guard libra now right?) So if they didn't change allegretto, does that mean cancelling the hop into it would be a really weird way to get in/poke?
Zoogstin Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Yes. I, for now, can't think of any use for that at all, with the current allegretto.
4Corners Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Oh, my bad. I thought allegretto dropped you a little bit. Nvm, ignore me.
Kyle Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I'm sure allegretto does drop ya some. & I've not been able to special cancel his ground dash. This could be inaccurate information. Can anyone confirm? 66,214C NOT WORKING In CT. Can anyone find where it's supposed to work in CS? Updated 1st post.
Dasvanu Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm sure allegretto does drop ya some. & I've not been able to special cancel his ground dash. This could be inaccurate information. Can anyone confirm? 66,214C NOT WORKING In CT. Can anyone find where it's supposed to work in CS? Updated 1st post. I tried it for a good 10 mins in CT, and I also couldn't get it to work... I haven't seen one vid of loketest Carl. I am sad.
Zeero Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm sure allegretto does drop ya some. & I've not been able to special cancel his ground dash. This could be inaccurate information. Can anyone confirm? 66,214C NOT WORKING In CT. Can anyone find where it's supposed to work in CS? Updated 1st post. While I didnt try, but if im not mistaken, i believe they mean a ground move... like 66 236A or something... i guess the change in CS is so it is air cancellable? maybe? Regardless i doubt we'll get a "Alle-can dash" in CS, coz that'd be too good to be true if the cancel points are early enough.
MisoSowee Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 well maybe zeero is right. We only assumed it was air special cancelable because hakumen's dash specifically puts him in a state of "in air" during the certain frames in his hop. Carl's might just be cancellable as if a special/normal move.
Zeero Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Actually looking more closely at the zetaboards information i posted... Chararcter Duration Notes Arakune 48 Frames 7~36 invincible, can go through opponents Carl 21 Frames 3~14 airborne, 16~ normal move, special move and throw cancel possible Hakumen 16 Frames 3~11 airborne, 6~11 air special move cancel possible. Carls only in the air from 3~14 frames... it starts to be cancellable on its 16th frame... so its definitely a ground special cancel in CT... So either CTSmade Carl's airbourne frames longer or made it cancellable earlier for it to be cancellable with 214C... not to mention Carl's dash has more recovery now (god knows why) I still fail to see an application
Zeero Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 So i watched the latest CS vids of Carl posted here http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=476467&postcount=227 And some things I noticed, not confirmed, just thoughts while watching the vids (so some might even overlap) 1. His forward dash is horrible. So slow, floats so high, and so long. It has longer range but i dont know if that is significant. 2. Seems like they REALLY amplified continuous use of Nirvana (not releasing D). Looking at a 6D loop, every 6D seems to use almost 1.5x of what the last one did. 3. 2A 2B 3C summon 236A 2B 2C still works. 4. It looks like Nirvana overall got slower, but im not sure. 5. Because of the slower dash, 6D dash 2a no longer connects in your loop. I'm not sure if they got rid of the 236A cancel of 5C because i saw 6. untech time of 236D seems to be reduced? couldn't follow up with combo. 7. Nirvana actually recovers slower when dead now. 8. Nirvana doken is awesome, but it takes a lot of bar. 9. 8D is REALLY slow, so im not sure if throw loop possible (failed everytime someone tried) 10. Seems like 6D hitstun also reduced? 6D 236A 2A got jin uppercutted 11. Due to dash longer, you cant dash 2C off a 8d i think. 12. Can't combo after airthrow? missed 5C (which is pretty easy) twice... 13. Maybe only ground loop left is 2a 5a 5b 6b 6D. Feels like all options off 5C ground loop doesnt work anymore (didnt see anyone try jumping though) 14. I dont see a damage increase so i dont know... while nirvana's fireball is awesome, it seems like everything else got worse... and hazama looks too awesome to resist. hmm.
Mikachiru Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Read the first post. Carl can glide throw...? lol Carl=Peach. XD
Zeero Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I think they were referring to the j2c kara throw
Akiro Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I think Nirvadouken is going to be the center of combos now that 6D got nerfed down the toilet .
MisoSowee Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Great nirvadouken is the official term? And wasn't that coined by Mikachiru? (I remember her talking about it in the chatroom way before the famitsu magazine came out) I actually like the name Volante... sounds manly and.... guard-string interruptable.... or something
Mikachiru Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Great nirvadouken is the official term? And wasn't that coined by Mikachiru? (I remember her talking about it in the chatroom way before the famitsu magazine came out) I actually like the name Volante... sounds manly and.... guard-string interruptable.... or something I thought I called it a laser... ADA MISSLES ARE SEKKUSHI!!
Sigma Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I figure Arc's reasoning must go something like this: Carl started off really terrible in CT and the players made him awesome, so if we make him even worse now, he'll balance out. There is no other explanation. With the changes as they are, it seems like they're making Carl less technical and less interesting, while overcompensating wildly for an infinite he doesn't have anymore. If this goes through as it is, it will be a sad day.
stinkymonz Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 overcompensating IKR. Longer 623C and 1st hit of 623C RCable lol. @ 4Corners - excuse you, Kristin Chenoweth is a ~goddess~.
soujiro seta Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I figure Arc's reasoning must go something like this: Carl started off really terrible in CT and the players made him awesome, so if we make him even worse now, he'll balance out. There is no other explanation. With the changes as they are, it seems like they're making Carl less technical and less interesting, while overcompensating wildly for an infinite he doesn't have anymore. If this goes through as it is, it will be a sad day. Correct, I think Arcsys went a bit overboard with him. As you said, they were like his loop is too good, lets take that a way and then some. They didn't realize that the only thing that kept him competitive was his loop. Rather than take that away and buff, they take it away and nerf, lol. Yes his projectile looks good, but after what I've seen I don't know how things will pan out for him. I mean nirvana is our offense and defense and considering that every move takes like 20% of her health she can't do much before she breaks, which means more carl alone time. Hopefully carl alone can handle himself. I just hope he is still fun to play and atleast has a chance against the cast. No one should have to go through what tagers went through in CT.
Dasvanu Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Well, if this does happen to be the last loketest, let's just hope he takes a turn for the better between this loketest and the arcade release. I'm trying to stay optimistic about him, but Arcsys is making it difficult
Zoogstin Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 The official name is "Volante" Nirvadouken or nirvanadouken are much more epic.
4Corners Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I'm worried, but I'm sure I'll find someone else to play if Carl's gay. If not, back to Melee, I guess. =( IKR. Longer 623C and 1st hit of 623C RCable lol. @ 4Corners - excuse you, Kristin Chenoweth is a ~goddess~. It's moreover the flashing black crap. Makes it annoying. D:< D:< D:<
Sigma Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 IKR. Longer 623C and 1st hit of 623C RCable lol. @ 4Corners - excuse you, Kristin Chenoweth is a ~goddess~. I mean overcompensating in terms of nerfs. As for the projectile, it's good to have, but it seems to (along with the other changes) reduce emphasis on actually fighting while actively using nirvana, which is what they should have been trying to increase. I don't look forward to having people park her in the corner and just use the projectiles for links. Aren't any Japanese Carl players speaking up about this?
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