Jourdal Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 People are comboing off of CH 623C for sure. Kaqn does it plenty of times. They seem to follow up with 5b or in in a corner 6c now as opposed to 5c.
Felicia Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Well got some time in today. Couldn't check much, but I did get a few things looked into. 623C normally can lead to a DP A. 623CH, you can get to an air combo using 5B. It's really tight on the timing, though. Didn't try 6C, though... next time, maybe. j.236D leads to 6C launcher. I was able to get a j.B off from j.236D, but that was against Tager. Couldn't check against other characters. Tried 5B > 5C > 214C. Not a valid combo. Never said that j.2C up-scales. Only suggested that the reason someone might use j.2C over j.C might be because scaling. As in; using j.C twice in a combo would scale the damage down more harshly than using j.2C once or twice in a combo. I'm not sure whether it does or it doesn't. I do know that, using j.2C is better for Air-to-Ground attacks because j.C doesn't have much vertical coverage.
render Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 With regards to Ice Car C in CT, yes you could do it. But there was a reason why everyone used the B version and that was to avoid Sekka-jin move-prioritizing over everything. Since Jin's early BnB combos involved plugging 2C or 3C, and because of the 5-Frame button holding, players often used Ice Car B to avoid hitting Sekka-Jin. Sekka-Jin only requires 4 buttons presses themselves and often times, players may double tap or the button could register twice, etc. In general it was just easier to sacrifice 90-ish damage for a guaranteed finisher. lol wut The reason you don't use C ice car in CT is because the startup is literally too slow for C ice car to connect as a valid combo. There aren't any ground strings that require you to press C more than 3 times, so Jin players who are getting Sekkajin on accident are mashing too hard. Doesn't matter, I guess, since CT is dead anyway. As far as C Ice Car is concerned in CS... doesn't look possible. C Ice Car has a notable start up time before it hits, but I will check it when I go there today. Not in the air, it doesn't. Tried 5B > 5C > 214C. Not a valid combo. Thank you for confirming. I figured it wouldn't, but I thought it would be worth checking. Asking again since my question didn't get answered: Do these work? (on crouch) 5C > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jD > C ice car 6C > 2D > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jC > j2C > C ice car (Mostly just want to know if you can use C ice car to end air combos instead of B ice car like you had to in CT.)
Brotrr Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I'm not sure if I'm understanding your post correctly, but you can definitely end similar combos like that in CT with C ice car unless I'm going crazy..
smooshman Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 lol wut The reason you don't use C ice car in CT is because the startup is literally too slow for C ice car to connect as a valid combo. There aren't any ground strings that require you to press C more than 3 times, so Jin players who are getting Sekkajin on accident are mashing too hard. Doesn't matter, I guess, since CT is dead anyway. Not in the air, it doesn't. Thank you for confirming. I figured it wouldn't, but I thought it would be worth checking. Asking again since my question didn't get answered: Do these work? (on crouch) 5C > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jD > C ice car 6C > 2D > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jC > j2C > C ice car (Mostly just want to know if you can use C ice car to end air combos instead of B ice car like you had to in CT.) that makes alot more sense. and I don't think that second combo works... unless C ice car got faster because in CT you needed B ice car to finish that combo... but I'm not 100% sure just like 60-70% EDIT: I'm liking how the new JC fixes fucking u- ... getting throw breaked by just going 'you know what fuck you' and slashing them. 2nd EDIT: also I think I know the answer to this but I need confirmation. does Jin not throw the 2 ice swords or was that changed to the "haha so slo- OH! SHIT that's fast" ice sword 3rd EDIT: also do some of the fauex combos work (combos that end to be safe on block or are combos that differently than expected) specifically 5C> 623A because I think 623A is slower and 5C is better and I'm not sure it still works. also this one I think will work it's JB> J2C>JD>236C instead of ice car so that it moves you away. 4th EDIT: the new 5C looks awesome, it finally gives jin a fast normal with decent damage (not A attacks) also I for see a trophy/achievment for hitting Hakumen with Jin's yukikaze or vice versa
VietGeek Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Hello, I'm new here, and new to fighters in general (aside from a certain...platformer involving animals from space )... but anyway, I was watching a niconico video (forgot which one), and this Jin was fighting a Bang. The Bang escaped all the air grabs, but Jin was always able to throw out a air C from the grab escape. So...since the combo is technically "broken" from the grab escape, if Jin does have positive frame advantage from throw escape, couldn't this be a way to end a combo with a non-probated (is that the right term?) air C? So...something like: 5c->6c->(can you do that twice?)-> jC->(how does one label jump?) j2C->j2C->6BC (is this how you label throw/grab?) if success: ??? j214C? (idk you can't air dash at this point since you used up two jumps right? I'm not very familiar with strings after a successful air grab) if escaped: C -> ??? Ya, I'm a scrub. :<
PozerWolf Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 WTF are you guys even talking about? Anyways, I perty much wrote up in-depth info on Jin's changes and posted on SRK (could not post it on Dustloop for some odd reason, I can't access dustloop.com from my computer and I don't know why). But um... check this out: About Jin Kisaragi in Continum Shift. Pros: + Good damage for starting off, feels like sometime in the future he will be able to get better combos that knockdown. + New j.C is a really good air poke. + All his normal Air and Ground projectiles got better. + Certain normals got faster such as 5C, 2D, and what not, but had to suffer a small price. + C Ice Ride both Air and Ground have a better chance of knockdown the opponent in a long combo than it did back in CT. + Counter Super is not bad. Cons: - Some ground pokes got better, but in exchange they reduced there range of the moves. - Most of his air normals are slower. - 5D sucks REALLY bad, close to almost pointless to use. - His overhead still sucks. - Air Ice Rides get him no where now. - All his EX moves got worse in some way (except EX DP, it got better). - A and B uppercut no longer hit crouching opponents, and have less hit stun (harder to combo off both versions). *** NOTE: None of these are "official" changes, but there are changes I notice personally and what I believed have changed. Some many not be 100% sure, but I'm certain these are the things that changed with the moves described below. * Normals. 5A - No Change. 2A - No Change, still good for tech traps. 6A - No Change, still a shitty overhead. 5B - No longer crushes lows. 2B - Has less recovery. 6B - A bit faster, but still feels like it's 0 on block. 5C - Comes out faster and less recovery, but has lost a lot of horizontal and vertical range. No longer does this move act like a random anti-air, and feels like it loses to a lot of pokes. 2C - Comes out faster, works better as an anti-air. Unable to JC on block, but can JC on hit. 6C - No Change. 5D - Comes out slower, has more recovery, has less block stun, and cannot special cancel it (can only EX/Super cancel the normal). No longer will 5D link off of CH 5B or 5C as an air juggle. 2D - Comes out faster, but now has less block stun, and has less Range going horizontal (harder to catch those who jump out) 6D - Comes out SLIGHTLY faster. * Jump Normals. j.A - No Change. j.B - Slower. j.C - New normal, good air poke. Has about 1 frame of recovery on landing when used. j.2C - Old air normal, no change aside from input command. j.D - No Change. * Special Moves. 236A - Recovery time decreased. 236B - Projectile moves a lot faster. 236C - Has an overall change, basically the projectile will travel VERY slowly for 2 seconds then quickly go across the screen (faster than 236B). Air 236A/B/C - Recover in mid-air, allowing you to air dash or jump after throwing out the projectile, however you still suffer from landing recovery. Overall landing recovery decreased. 623A - No longer hits crouching, less block stun and slightly more recovery. 623B - No longer hits crouching, less tech time in the air. More block stun. 623C - More recovery, harder to get an air combo after CH. 214A - No change. 214B - No longer knocks down. 214C - Rides the ice a little higher than usual (riding over knockdown bodies no matter what, even Rachel's). Air 214A/B/C - They all travel a lot less in the air. * EX Moves. EX Ice Ride - Does less damage. EX Air 3 Ice - Now has landing recovery and has you complete CH state. EX Ground Ice - More recovery. EX DP - Overall better, opponent is frozen longer than usual, and easier to combo off it in the corner. * Supers. 632146C - Comes out slightly faster, enemy is now stunned a lot longer on the ground allow you to combo after super with no problems. When hit the air, looks like there is more hit stun, but unable to combo afterwords anyways. 632146D - No change. 236236D - New Super, counters any attacks opponent throws out, but does not catch lows. Active on 1st frame. * Throws. Forward Throw - Got raped to hell, feels like the combo timer limits you to any real air combos now. Back Throw - No change. And that's the basic run down on Jin. Basic combos for Jin, giving you an idea what to look for. 1.) 5C CH, 6C, 2D, Frozen, 6B, Mash C till Launch, 6C, pause, C Ice Ride. 2.) Back Throw, cancel into A Ice Ride (whiff), run up 5C, Mash C till Launch, 6C, pause, C Ice Ride. There is also another system included in the game called "Fatal Counters". Basically, anything that will Fatal Counter an opponent will allow 2 frames of extra hit stun for the rest of your combo. The only moves that I know of that have a Fatal Counter would be 2C and his new Counter super. Otherwise, the Fatal Counter would go something like this: 2C (Fatal Counter), 6C, 2D, Frozen, 6B, 5C, 6C, Dash Cancel (66), 5C, Jump, j.C, j.2C, JC, j.C, j.2C. This combo all works and does a good 4k. This is nothing more than a basic Fatal Counter combo, however... And yes, the combo completely works.
PozerWolf Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 With regards to Ice Car C in CT, yes you could do it. But there was a reason why everyone used the B version and that was to avoid Sekka-jin move-prioritizing over everything. Since Jin's early BnB combos involved plugging 2C or 3C, and because of the 5-Frame button holding, players often used Ice Car B to avoid hitting Sekka-Jin. Sekka-Jin only requires 4 buttons presses themselves and often times, players may double tap or the button could register twice, etc. In general it was just easier to sacrifice 90-ish damage for a guaranteed finisher. You have no idea what your talking about. Sekka-Jin was a good move from the start, and prove to show some very damaging combos in the end due to the fact it didn't prorate at all (well it did, but very little). The issue was the combo limit on how much you can do in a combo. As far as Jin's air-combos are concerned, anything that worked with the old j.C (now j.2C) will work with the new j.C. Basic air-combo for Jin is j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > j.D... Even the game's Easy mode uses this basic combo. There really isn't a case where you'll need to use j.2C over j.C in a standard air combo. Though, perhaps the reason it's used is because of pro-ration scaling? This is complete false. This entire thing I quoted here, don't even bother reading it, seriously. In your other combo, are you talking about j.236D? Or just 236D? If its the former, no you can't do that anymore, except maybe in a corner. If its the latter, you might be able to get something out of that (again in a corner). j.236D has pretty massive recovery that, unless you actually on top of your opponent when it hits, you probably can't follow-up with anything. No matter where air 3 ice hits, you can always follow it up, and always to a combo that does 2.9k or more. Asking again since my question didn't get answered: Do these work? (on crouch) 5C > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jD > C ice car 6C > 2D > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jC > j2C > C ice car (Mostly just want to know if you can use C ice car to end air combos instead of B ice car like you had to in CT.) 1st combo only works if you get a Fatal Counter. 2nd combo works if you remove one of the j.Cs. * NOTE: Air C Ice Ride feels like it has a better chance of connecting than it did back in CT. Read my previous post for more info.
Jourdal Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for the rundown pozerwolf. One thing, are you sure Jin's Yukikaze (236236D) counters everything? i hear it doesn't catch low.
PozerWolf Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for the rundown pozerwolf. One thing, are you sure Jin's Yukikaze (236236D) counters everything? i hear it doesn't catch low. Ah, sorry for the mis-information. Yeah, your correct, it does not catch lows.
shtkn Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 some jin changes i noticed this weekend... freeze times on everything is a little longer... for example 5D > dash cancel > 5C works on ppl now and 623D freeze will make them touch the ground for a little bit before they shake out 6B causes more hitstun on hit, you have enough time to dash up 2A on standing hit or 5C counter hit 623B > 214D doesn't work mid-stage anymore
PozerWolf Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 6B causes more hitstun on hit, you have enough time to dash up 2A on standing hit or 5C counter hit 623B > 214D doesn't work mid-stage anymore I thought you could always do that with 6B, even in CT. Also, 623B CH feels like it will link into 214D no matter what. You sure you didn't just hit the opponent too, too high?
shtkn Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 i don't think 6B > 5C works on standing opponents in CT (crouching oppnents yes), and you could do 6B > 2A without the run. i tried doing 623B CH to 214D on tager and bang on the ground... maybe my timing's off or something but yeah, couldn't get it midscreen you're the one near a machine, can you try them and make sure i'm just not messing up? the soonest i can try again is next weekend.
Jourdal Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Pozerwolf or shtkn is this still valid, or had the timing become tighter: get them air borne> high jump > combo, JD> air dash > follow up. I know that's not an actual combo but i think you know what i mean..with the decrease in freeze time i've seen a vid (sorry can't remember at the moment) where the Jin tried to follow up the air dash with J2C but they were already defrosted and blocked.
render Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 1st combo only works if you get a Fatal Counter. 2nd combo works if you remove one of the j.Cs. * NOTE: Air C Ice Ride feels like it has a better chance of connecting than it did back in CT. Read my previous post for more info. Thanks for confirming! And thanks for the write-up too.
VietGeek Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I suppose I should try to clarify my earlier post. I actually found the video, and it wasn't versus Bang, but Hazama. All those Bang players trying to bring Jin to justice messed up my memory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jDF4m8-qf8 or http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9010269 start at 2:41 and again at 4:43. The end of the combo was an attempted throw that was escaped out of. However on both occasions Hazama was hit by jC. Now my question is: does this consistently work? Because to my understanding, since Hazama was no longer part of the previous combo, essentially the grab break set-ups for a free non-probated jC. So if this is a true set-up, Jin has a follow-up regardless of if the throw was successful or not, right? But I'm just a scrub so I guess I'll go back to lurkin'; just wanted to be clear.
PozerWolf Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 i don't think 6B > 5C works on standing opponents in CT (crouching oppnents yes), and you could do 6B > 2A without the run. i tried doing 623B CH to 214D on tager and bang on the ground... maybe my timing's off or something but yeah, couldn't get it midscreen you're the one near a machine, can you try them and make sure i'm just not messing up? the soonest i can try again is next weekend. I'll check again later, but I do recall hitting 623B CH and getting the EX Ice Ride no problem. I dunno, I'll double check to make sure I'm not wrong or something. Otherwise, I see myself doing the 632146+C Super because every time I get a CH with 623 A or B version, they are WAY too high for me to do anything else mid-screen. I suppose I should try to clarify my earlier post. I actually found the video, and it wasn't versus Bang, but Hazama. All those Bang players trying to bring Jin to justice messed up my memory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jDF4m8-qf8 or http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9010269 start at 2:41 and again at 4:43. The end of the combo was an attempted throw that was escaped out of. However on both occasions Hazama was hit by jC. Now my question is: does this consistently work? Because to my understanding, since Hazama was no longer part of the previous combo, essentially the grab break set-ups for a free non-probated jC. So if this is a true set-up, Jin has a follow-up regardless of if the throw was successful or not, right? But I'm just a scrub so I guess I'll go back to lurkin'; just wanted to be clear. This can't be a serious question. Whatever, the opponent is simply just not blocking the j.C, that is all.
Reyvin Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Pozerwolf or shtkn is this still valid, or had the timing become tighter: get them air borne> high jump > combo, JD> air dash > follow up. I know that's not an actual combo but i think you know what i mean..with the decrease in freeze time i've seen a vid (sorry can't remember at the moment) where the Jin tried to follow up the air dash with J2C but they were already defrosted and blocked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_HI25r08Og At 2:47 or 4:38, is that what you are talking about?
VietGeek Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Alright, that's what I thought, but it happening more than once concerned me, k. So I've haven't seen any Jins be able to combo from his new super, but it has Fatal Counter on it. Do you know of any possible follow-ups after Yukikaze or whatever it's called?
PozerWolf Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 So I've haven't seen any Jins be able to combo from his new super, but it has Fatal Counter on it. Do you know of any possible follow-ups after Yukikaze or whatever it's called? His new Super having a Fatal Counter is useless, I dunno, it's retarded. Oh yeah, so I was messin' around with 623B CH into EX Ice Ride, and I can't seem to get it when I hit them off the ground. But when the opponent is air borne and land a CH, it's all good.
Jourdal Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_HI25r08Og At 2:47 or 4:38, is that what you are talking about? Nvm about that, the jin player must have just been too slow, Buppa did it just fine.
PhoenixBR Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 His new Super having a Fatal Counter is useless, I dunno, it's retarded. Oh yeah, so I was messin' around with 623B CH into EX Ice Ride, and I can't seem to get it when I hit them off the ground. But when the opponent is air borne and land a CH, it's all good. Perhaps it might combo if they're in the corner. Using Yukikaze would get you right next to them. Maybe Rapid Cancel afterwards?
ichabod Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Does anyone know/remember the 4k+ dmg cornercombo that Jin can do? Saw it several days ago (think it was dennou or pachi), maybe there are several but I've only seen one 4k+ combo this far. Could it be 6C(counter)> 6C > 623B > j.C > j.2C > j.D > 214D > 6C > 214C ? (seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDTRzrGZpNQ at 3:34)
render Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I think it was on a grounded opponent sorta near the corner and started with CH 6C > 6C > pause > 623B, but I don't remember how it ended, and he used 25% meter. Pretty sure it was in a Nisepachi vs Dennou match. EDIT: Found it. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDTRzrGZpNQ#t=3m35s 6C (CH) > 6C > pause > 623B > jC > double-jump > j2C > jD > D ice car > land > 6C > C ice car Does 4301 damage. You don't have to dash-cancel the 6Cs either. EDIT 2: Looks like you found it. Yes, that's the one.
PozerWolf Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Does anyone know/remember the 4k+ dmg cornercombo that Jin can do? Saw it several days ago (think it was dennou or pachi), maybe there are several but I've only seen one 4k+ combo this far. Could it be 6C(counter)> 6C > 623B > j.C > j.2C > j.D > 214D > 6C > 214C ? (seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDTRzrGZpNQ at 3:34) Honestly, he should have gone for a Fatal Counter combo. The other day I was playing someone at the arcade and after they whiffed an uppercut I came up with 2C (Fatal Counter) into 6C and did a large corner combo after that. I don't remember what I did, but people around me were surprised how I hit 5k with only 25% bar. Kind of scary, wondering what his max damage for a Fatal Counter will truly be. Still messin' around with that. I know we got people here finding 7.4k + damage with Hakumen with his fatals, ugh!!! Perhaps it might combo if they're in the corner. Using Yukikaze would get you right next to them. Maybe Rapid Cancel afterwards? So, you are telling me your willing to spend another 50% to do a combo after his Counter Super? I'll tell ya' right now, seeing as how the super takes FOREVER for him to finish his pose, the most I've ever seem to do is 4k max... bleehhhhh. Better saving that bar for another super.
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