[CS1] Iron Tager Complete Guide

[Mike Z]

Maybe we should mention when we both threw 720's at each other and nothing happened.

Same as CT. 720 and 360s stick you in place - they are not pulled in by the other player doing something magnetic. So we both did 'em out of range, and nobody moved. :^)

[fragile]

MikeZ please check if u can Counter assault (i think? the dead angle move) xx Gadget

[ryokoalways]

I believe IB barrier still existed in the air, so 2C (blocked) >collider may not be automatic. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[bjholmes2]

Thing is, though, with Tager's head invincibility on Collider, there isn't much they could do even if they did IBB (instant barrier block).

[ryokoalways]

The point is not to hit them out of collider. The point is the lack of block stun means your target falls faster, and collider will miss because of that.

[Mike Z]

MikeZ please check if u can Counter assault (i think? the dead angle move) xx Gadget

Doesn't look like he recovers in time. Maybe on CH but I doubt it.

2C xx AC still has to be high enough for the AC to hit, of course, but the point was that they can't plain old IB and escape easily...they wouldn't be able to hit him anyway, now. :^)

[Xie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOnJN6lqmm0t=1m26s

More reason to combo into 3c! you can actually relaunch with 2b if you're close enough.

[bjholmes2]

The point is not to hit them out of collider. The point is the lack of block stun means your target falls faster, and collider will miss because of that.

Of course; silly me!

[Henaki]

- Since instant block won't defend against air-unblockable moves anymore, 2C xx AC as antiair is guaranteed! Either they get hit by the 2C, or they barrier it and get unblockable'd.

in ct if you IB+Barrier 2c, you get enough of a hole to escape this setup if you ahve an air reversal, but i tested this lonnnnnnnng ago so maybe my memory is hazy.

I'm not a big fan of Gadget mixups, I prefer the other ones. Gadget is hella predictable, and I've already had people (Litchi for example) get out of everything.

can you ac her command backdash (near useless on a good player i know), if not, its probably going to end up being a per character basis call. resets on characters with good wakeup options, gadget on characters with bad.

[Tofu Warrior]

*snip*

Discover some Gadget Cancel infinites, GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO

Oh, and test your theory about buffering 720 in the cool-down frames of barrier guard!

[A.X.I.S.]

hmmm it wouldn't hurt to talk about the gadget do's and don'ts. i had some theories but they are just theories.

[Toasty]

hmmm it wouldn't hurt to talk about the gadget do's and don'ts.

i had some theories but they are just theories.

Would this call for a new thread like we did with the 360s, or should we just tack it on to this one?

[A.X.I.S.]

Would this call for a new thread like we did with the 360s, or should we just tack it on to this one?

i could make a new thread and post some idea's, wonder if mike z, tofu, and henaki will test them out though.

[DoomieJ]

i could make a new thread and post some idea's, wonder if mike z, tofu, and henaki will test them out though.

Well until they rebuild UP or CTF gets CS, ken wont be able to test anything out.

[Tofu Warrior]

I can test whatever you guys like in a couple of weeks.

[bjholmes2]

i could make a new thread and post some idea's, wonder if mike z, tofu, and henaki will test them out though.

I'll make a new thread once a lot of info starts flowing.

[Henaki]

Well until they rebuild UP or CTF gets CS, ken wont be able to test anything out.

yeah this wait is annoying as fuck.

still got a week and then some to test.

[EasyModeNub]

yeah this wait is annoying as fuck.

still got a week and then some to test.

If you want to, PM me a list of things you would like tested and I can probably do quite a few of them on Sunday; going to be at arcade UFO as soon as it opens to test shit.

Just throwing that idea out there if you feel like it. :8/: Sucks that you can't play for another week or 2.

[Henaki]

haha its cool, i cant think of anything specific to test or anything. mostly new 720 setups after 2d and to see how good gadget finger is,

[EasyModeNub]

So far Gadget Finger has been great on certain characters. Against Ragna I have had absolutley no success with gadget finger... it would be important to note though that the only Ragna I have played against is Hsein Chang In alot of videos you see them do 5Ax2 after Gadget Finger, which is a great setup. Connected 5Ax2 leads to combo into finger reset, and if they block it you get tick 360 or AC mixup to scare them with. Barrier 720 is hotness btw. Jin seems to use D alot more in his pressure (around here at least) which leads to some free 360/720 shenanigans once you see a pattern.

[Kallinx]

So you can buffer 720 during the recovery frames of using barrier?

[ZhePrime]

Against Ragna I have had absolutley no success with gadget finger... it would be important to note though that the only Ragna I have played against is Hsein Chang

Is it because of his DP? Can you not bait and punish his DP? I haven't check out that many Tager vs Ragna vids so I'm just speculating.

[A.X.I.S.]

i just assume after gadget against people with dp you use a command grab get the purple, if they break it then they are magnetized and back to square one, if not then free damage to reset for you, also wondering if you can poke him out so he can't dp, since ragna may not risk the dp with no meter.

[Mike Z]

Barrier 720 doesn't work. :^( On the other hand, here's some stuff! - You can hold Gadget Finger, which is how you do 360B, ASledge, Gadget...or AC, BSledge, Gadget. (Hey, I didn't know!) BSledge, Gadget doesn't work on Carl, he can tech before he hits the floor from the Sledge. :^( - BSledge and j.2C now do the exact same amount of damage. So at the end of most combos, there is no reason to end a combo with whiff j.C, late j.2C, Gadget (difficult!) instead of just BSledge, Gadget (easy). Elbow Gadget is slightly faster to hit, though, which can matter after longer combos. BSledge has worse proration, but that doesn't matter since Gadget does no damage. :^) ** BGadget = BSledge, Gadget ** EGadget = whiff j.C, late j.2C, Gadget - Hitting with AC more than once in a combo is subject to that new 'loop proration' and causes the rest of the combo after the 2nd AC to do absolutely crud damage. - After an AC late in a combo, even when you can’t do anything into Gadget, or even a 2D… you can still do a 5D. It’ll catch them on the bounce, do dmg, add magnetism, and seems to work on everyone (even Carl.) - Ending a combo (where you can do a Gadget) with 5D xx Gadget whiff lets you do sj.C, then falling D to end up right next to them again and pull techs towards you. Some combos! All are magnetized. Sorry they all start with 2C, hard to test AC stuff by myself. ** ACx2 = magnetized AC, whiff AC - Basis: 2C xx ACx2, 6B->2C xx AC, BGadget = 3820 - 2C xx ACx2, 6B xx ASledge, 2B->2C xx AC, BGadget= 3957 (works on everyone!) - 2C xx AC, whiff j.D, late j.2C, 2B xx AC, EGadget = 4000 - 2C xx ACx2, 2B->2C->5D xx Spark, 5C->6A->2C xx AC, 5D = 4435, and can cancel to Gadget whiff - 2C xx AC, whiff j.D, late j.2C, 2B->2C->5D xx Spark, 5C->6A->2C xx AC, 5D = 4621 - 2C xx ACx2, 6B xx Spinny (5091) xx Terra Break, Gadget = 6550 On Haku, Arakune, Noel, Litchi: 2C xx ACx2, 6B xx ASledge, 2B->2C->5D xx Spark, 6A xx Gadget (they tech), 720. Whee. Fatal CH’s add extra hitstun, so off a CH 2C some things will combo that usually won’t: - 5C->6C - 6C->j.C->j.D - juggle ASledge, 5C or 2C - 5B->5C So a few examples, all crappy dmg: - CH 2C, 5C->6C xx ASledge, 5C->6C, j.C->j.D - CH 2C, [5C xx ASledge] x3, Hammer - magnetized CH 2C, 5C->6A->2C xx ACx2, 5B->5C->6C, j.2C

[Shine]

Good stuff. Have any damage values for those those combos? Would be nice to know. Also, can't you do AC x2, 22d? If those AC x2 combos really do bad damage, this would be a much more better alternatives in certain match-ups.