[CS1] Noel Guide

[dragontamer]

BTW, what happened to the updated guide talk? shall we wait until the re-balance patch comes out?

Well, I mentioned my plans, if everyone's silent with the things, I'll post my next update / thoughts for criticism when I get the time.

Overall, I hope that a stronger Noel player writes the guide or offers criticism, but I think I can manage to do better than the current one. I'm still kinda scrubby in the great scheme of things.

Yep.

The very least you can do is make your opponent work for the damn reversal. I've found that not every opponent actually mashes DPs / 720Cs. Instead, they choose a time when they think it would be easy to pull one off. d.6C is the easiest place to pull off a 720C because you're in blockstun for 50 frames or so.

If they pull off the 720C, but then your blockstring is solid, then they have to pull off another 720C at the d.5B instead. Sure, it still isn't safe, but if they were expecting the 720C at the end of d.6C instead of d.5B, the 720C won't come out and instead you'll get a nasty message about "lag screwing up my damn reversals". Sure, a better opponent will still pull it off, but at least your forcing your opponent to work harder.

Plus, while 720C will still reach Noel after d.5B, I don't think everyones reversals will (ie: Nu's 214A, Jin's 623C, Litchi's 623D will hit but the launcher will whiff and you can punish with 3C, etc. etc.)

[mooyang90]

lol, yea feel free to unsticky this guide, the info is like 3 months outdated probably. Haven't really cared about BangBlue for a while actually, and I probably won't care for it when the update comes out either. GL to dragontamer and his crew of stronger Noel players.

[LunaKage]

Thanks for the original info mooyang, hopefully you'll come back to us one day. In the meantime, stay hype.

[DC]

imo the game will never not be broken

[Runis]

720 gets stuffed by d.6C d.5B d.4D in my experience. At best with that you'll get a d.2D flash kick combo out of it unless you rapid the d.5B and do a raw 4D. But if you're going to rapid cancel the d.5B you are probably going to jump instead of just doing another move, and if you're going to jump, you can probably buffer in a j.4D to get a FC during 720 super flash (although j.4d is trashy slow) or you could RC the d.2D/d.4D into haida loop instead.

[dragontamer]

720C Super-flash is 0-frames. IE, if its out, you're already hit.

You can never react to the 720C, you can only predict it.

[archling]

You can react to setups...

[Ichipoo]

imo the game will never not be broken

Sig worthy? :o

[Runis]

and if you're going to jump, you can probably buffer in a j.4D to get a FC during 720 super flash (although j.4d is trashy slow) or you could RC the d.2D/d.4D into haida loop instead.

You can react to a whiffed 720.

[dragontamer]

Makes sense. I'd imagine that j.4D would be too slow though... but whiffed 720C does have a lot of recovery frames.

---------------

Here's my rundown on normals:

Normals Overview:

Unfortunately, her normals are among the weakest in the cast. Still, the normal game is the most fundamental part of Noel, because they're fast and often are Noel's safest options against your opponent. Noel's range is very poor, so you'll have to learn various ways of getting in. Vary your dash-ins and jump-ins, don't get predictable. You can attempt to play the long-range poking game with 5C and 5B, but overall, Noel isn't very good at zoning and poking.

Noel's average damage is going to be poor. She only has situational combos if you use 5B, 5C or 2C. Capitalize on crouching and counter-hit states: these is one of the few times 5B / 5C / 2C will actually combo. Otherwise, you'll need to rely on 5A and 2B range if you want to actually want to get a decent combo into Oki. Even then, these combos won't get you more than ~2.4k damage. Using the riskier 3C can net you more damage, but good players can block on reaction and then punish you heavily.

Noel's High/Low mixup is very poor, and you won't be getting much damage off of that. Instead, focus on training your opponent into making stupid counter-hit mistakes. Use a predictable throw-pattern... and then punish with a frame trap into a counter-hit. For example, train your opponent to throw-break after 66 2A. Then, when you are sure they are trained to throw-break, use 66 2A -> 5C / 2C Counter! -> 3C/5D -> combo. Another one is 5A/2A -> 66 -> Throw. When you're sure the opponent is trained, use 2D, which cannot be ground thrown after frame 4, into a 2D counter-hit combo. In the corner, you'll get the most damage off of throws. Instead of using a counter-hit, take advantage of the throw-reject system. Use one more 5A or 2A than usual, and then use a purple grab. If they are trained, they'll hit throw too early, and you'll get a throw-reject on the corner for over 5k damage.

5A -- Very good but very short range poke. You've got a lot of options from a blocked 5A, especially if you are dashing in. 66 5A -> tickthrow (practice your timing so that you only make a green throw), 5A -> 2B -> 6A -> 6C. Hitconfirms to 6A -> 6C. Without dashing in, the 6C will sometimes whiff after 6A, especially after 5A -> 2B -> 6A. You can also jump cancel this move into a j.D or j.C crossup. Your frametrap from here is 2C. Do note, if your opponent instant-blocks, you can tick-throw them sooner than usual.

2A -- A slower poke with less blockstun. You can use the less blockstun to your advantage however. Because of the less blockstun, you can get a green throw off of 2A sooner than off of any other attack. This is the only attack that frame traps to 5C, and it also frametraps to 2C decently. Its a relatively safe move to throw out, and has decent range. However, it is one of thse slower pokes in the game. Don't expect to win vs Bang's 5A, or other faster pokes.

6A -- Noel's Anti-Air Normal. This whiffs on most crouching opponents. Learn the "sweet spot" of 6A: you need to position yourself correctly against your opponents jump-ins. This attack is not very safe on whiff, so missing the opponent's jump in will get you puinshed. You are head-invulnerable during the active frames of this attack, which means you'll beat most air-to-ground attacks clean when positioned correctly. 6A -> 5C -> j.B -> jump cancel -> j.B -> j.C -> j.236C works on most jump ins. 6A -> 6C ->j.D -> Chain Revolver combo does more damage and lands Oki... but it doesn't work on all jump-ins.

5B -- Noel's Midrange poke option. You don't have very many combo opportunities off of this attack on a standing opponent. Standing Opponent Counter-Hits go to 3C. Crouching opponents can be comboed into 5B -> 5C -> 2C -> 3C. On block, you can jump back in and try to do more 5A pressure. Frametrap to 2C.

2B -- Noel's low poke. On a standing opponent, you can combo into 2B -> 6A -> 6C if you dashed in. Frametraps to 2C. If you can get the timing down, this is Noel's best Oki option: 2B punishes both forward and backward rolls. Dash 2B slides under neutral techs and emergency rolls for a crossunder. 2B punishes quickrises and finally, if your opponent decides to just not wakeup... you can pickup your opponent off the ground into a combo.

6B -- Noel's only normal overhead. Despite it being slow, if you can train your opponent to always block low, you can get them with this attack. Its also Noel's meatiest attack, so its decent on your opponent's wakeup. On hit, it forces your opponent to crouch, giving you a nice combo into 3C.

5C -- A long range poke. On counterhit, you have 3C and 5D as combos. 3C can do more damage with the Haida loop. 5D is easier to combo with.

2C -- A relatively safe way to end blockstrings with +1 frame advantage. You have 3C as a combo on crouching and counter-hit opponents. Pay attention to the 2nd hit: if your opponent was crouching, the 2nd hit will combo into 3C. 2C -> Rapid -> 66 -> 6A -> 6C -> combo will get you over 3k damage, but requires 50% heat. Also, 2C is a good frame trap from 5A, 5B, 2A, and 2B. Train your opponent to mash, and you can punish with 2C frametraps into 3C.

6C -- A short-range attack. Counter-hits to 3C and 5D. Very fast, but has a long recovery. Very punishable on whiff. This is a very meaty attack, so 66 6C can punish most back-dashes into 66C (airborne / backdashing opponent) -> j.D -> combo.

3C -- Noel's highest damage combos are off of this attack. With the Haida loop, you can approach 5k damage off of clean hits. Unfortunately, only 6B combos into 3C naturally, otherwise... your opponent needs to be in either counter-hit or crouching state to get hit by 3C. 3C does guard-crush on block, but it is very unsafe at -18 frames.

j.A -- Fastest Aerial. Decent Jumpin, but punishable when you land because it doesn't have much blockstun. Tickthrows very easily and hits overhead.

j.B -- Decent Air-to-Air and Air-To-Ground option. Hits overhead, and combos into 6A on standing opponent, and 5C -> 3C on crouching opponent.

j.C -- Large amount of blockstun. Good for keeping pressure on your opponent, but opponents can block low. A decent Oki option: punishes rolls and quick-rise. Canceling into landing + block can make you safe vs Inferno Divider and other reversals. If you get predictable, an instant-blocking opponent can punish you.

**************

Criticism on this first draft is appreciated.

[archling]

2c isn't safe all the time.

Hazama can ib 1st hit and houtenjin.

Tager can probably ib 1st hit and sledge (?)

I don't do block strings past A's and B's anymore.

[dragontamer]

2c isn't safe all the time.

Hazama can ib 1st hit and houtenjin.

Tager can probably ib 1st hit and sledge (?)

I don't do block strings past A's and B's anymore.

The two hits for 2C have a -14 frame hole. If the first hit is instant-blocked, the 2nd hit has a -9 frame hole. Yes, Negative hole. Its solid. Otherwise, I offer you the video challenge to prove me wrong. (or, a test I can do in training mode)

+1 frame on block turns to -4 frames on instant-block. So IB 2nd hit and you'll still recover in time to block Hotenjin / ID. You are quite safe. I mean, while we're at it, if Tager IBs your 2B, he can 720C you before you recover from 2B.

But humans don't really play like that in my experience... except ****ing Galileo.

-------------

That said, if they IB say, 5C (instant-blocked) -> 2C, yes, they can punish the 2C during its startup. So I probably should mention that.

[dragontamer]

Chain Revolver Overview

Chain Revolver (abbreviated CR) strings have a starter, up to four followups in a row, and then a finisher if desired. Starters are 4D, 5D, 6D, 2D, j.D, and j.4D. Followups can be d.5A, d.6A, d.5B, d.6B, d.5C, d.6C, d.5D, d.4D, d.6D and d.2D. Finishers can be 236D, 214D, 623D, and any special attack such as 236A, 214A, and even 632146D. You can continue attacks even on whiff.

First thing you need to know to use CR effectively: when in CR, Noel cannot block until she reloads her guns or finishes her attacks. Innately, this makes every single CR attack a risky option. Opponents can always position themselves to punish your CR.

On the other hand, every single CR starter has some form of limited invincibility. With careful selection and timing, you can use these invincibility frames and counter-attack through your opponents offense. In general, CR is a decent defensive measure. Counter-hit 4D leads to almost 5000 damage combos, and Counter-hit 5D leads to about 4.5k damage combos. However, if your opponent predicts the CR, they can punish it.

Note: when comboing with CR, keep track of which attacks you have used. Noel suffers a damage penalty whenever she repeats a CR attack in a combo. For example, d.5A -> d.6A -> d.5A -> d.6A -> 236D barely does any damage at all, because you get a penalty from the 2nd d.5A and another penalty from the d.6A. Also note, d.5D and 5D are different attacks. 5D is the CR Starter, while d.5D is attack used while inside of Chain Revolver. d.5D is faster, but leads to weaker combos. It also has no invincibility. 5D on the other hand is slower, has full invincibility in the middle, and leads to massive combos. These two attacks are considered different when applying the same-move proration penalty, so feel free to use both 5D and d.5D in a combo.

Another Note: in every Chain Revolver attack, Noel loses invincibility before she hits the opponent, so be sure to time your invincibility carefully. This is unlike Ragna's Inferno Divider or Jin's 623C. You cannot use these attacks like Dragon Punches. Instead, they're more comparable to Bang's Guard Point attacks, without the hitstop. Generally, an opponent who mashes 5A 5A 5A 5A will beat you. Instead, focus on countering attacks which leave your opponent open if they miss you.

5D -- Attack invincibility starting at frame 5. Note: you can still be thrown out of 5D. This is an effective counter-attack when you learn to instant-block your opponents blockstrings. You can also punish slow attacks on reaction. For example, Ragna's Dead Spike, Tager's Sledge, Jin's 6D (Aka: Ice Fart) can be punished on reaction.

4D -- Upper-Body invincible from frame 1. Causes a fatal counter-hits. This move beats "horizonal" attacks, such as Ragna's 5B and Litchi's j.B. However, attacks that hit low, such as Ragna's 6B and Makoto's j.CC can still beat 4D. Overall, 4D can be used as an effective anti-air against certain characters. 4D practically beats all air-dash ins as well.

6D -- Upper Body invincible from frame 5 and low profile. Hits low.

2D -- Lower Body invincible from frame 1. You cannot be ground-thrown after frame 5: you are airborne so you have to be air-thrown. It has a very good hitbox that can be somewhat used as a very slow anti-air. You have a major frame-disadvantage on block however, all opponents can poke you out of any followup except for 623D, which is very unsafe. So don't use this in a blockstring unless you are 100% sure you will hit.

****** Bah, thats all for now. *******

[Halcyone3]

2D -- Lower Body invincible from frame 1. You cannot be ground-thrown after frame 5: you are technically airborne. It has a very good hitbox that can be somewhat used as a very slow anti-air.

not really technical, you ARE considered airborne, u can be air thrown out of 2D.

[dragontamer]

Indeed. I'll go ahead and edit that.

Have you looked over http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?7953-Noel-Guide-for-CS&p=759973&viewfull=1#post759973 ?? Thats more important for newbies IMO, so I'd like for that to be better reviewed.

[Halcyone3]

Indeed. I'll go ahead and edit that.

its pretty lulzy when it happens XD

Have you looked over http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?7953-Noel-Guide-for-CS&p=759973&viewfull=1#post759973 ?? Thats more important for newbies IMO, so I'd like for that to be better reviewed.

cant say i have much to add to that

[dragontamer]

By lulzy, if you mean wtf, I saw that comming and I thought 2D was faster, yes, its kinda lulzy. :-(

Lulzy for the opponent, not for the Noel.

[Halcyone3]

By lulzy, if you mean wtf, I saw that comming and I thought 2D was faster, yes, its kinda lulzy. :-(

Lulzy for the opponent, not for the Noel.

i rarely use 2D where the opponent could jump like that, so i never been on the "wtf?!!" side

i've done it like twice to troll noels who wake-up 2D

[archling]

Yeah, nevermind, you can't punish 2c. I got houtenjined after ib 2nd hit in a tournament and i guess for some reason i wasn't blocking. Re-tested in training mode and it's ok. Still 2c gattling sucks lol.

[dragontamer]

j.D -- It has an interesting hitbox that can beat out many attacks that are used as an anti-air, such as Mirror Match 6A, Tager's 2A and so forth. This is very unsafe on block however, so I don't recommend it to be used very often. Experiment in training mode before using it like this however, its tricky to use its invincibility frames. Often, you have to jump higher than usual, so an opponent who knows the trick will notice you. Another use of it is as a crossup from super-jump 5A and 5B. The most useful trick with j.D is using it very low, so that j.D never comes out. This is called a j.D cancel. This allows you to use any drive attack while landing. While I disagree with this video... here's a good demonstration of the j.D cancel. Note, this video was for an older version of BlazBlue, but the j.D cancel still works in BB:CS.

j.4D -- With a 4.5k Fatal Counter combo, invincibility frames and guard break, you'd expect this move to be good. But it isn't. Thats all there is to it, really. Its just too slow, the invincibility doesn't last long enough, and while its the 2nd safest drives on block... its still unsafe on block. Its good for trolling newbies and other people who don't know how to punish however.

d.5A -- This is the 2nd fastest drive, clocking in at 13 frames of startup. Its so fast that using this move after some drives is actually a legitimate blockstring. Unfortunately, a blocked d.5A is unsafe. Inside of a combo, there is little reason to use this attack because it does little damage and prorates poorly. It does combo on standing opponents from j.D however. In a blockstring, you can sometimes screw up the timing of your opponents reversal with this attack.

d.6A -- The 4th fastest drive at 18 frames. On Standing Opponnents, every drive combos into d.6A, and d.6A combos into d.6C. This attack also offers a lot of blockstun. Still unsafe on block, but you don't have many options when you're stuck in Chain Revolver.

d.5B -- The 3rd fastest drive at 17 frames. While a poor attack in a combo, its CR's better option on block because its fast, pushes the opponent away and gives a lot of blockstun.

d.6B -- This attack must be blocked high. With 21 frames of startup, this is Noel's fastest overhead. Practice j.D canceling into this attack. In my experience, this attack is the easiest way to set up a juggled opponent into Fenrir (632146D).

d.5C -- While a poor option on block, this attack is great for setups and combos. On hit, you can jump-cancel and continue your combos. It has alot of untechable time, and if the opponent is getting juggled, this attack can often combo into your astral.

d.6C -- This is one of Noel's slowest attacks, but it offers the largest amount of blockstun of all of Noel's attacks and guardcrushes the opponent. Furthermore, it is one of the most powerful attacks to start a combo, and one of the best attacks to combo into due to its high damage and great proration. The opponent can almost always jump, jab, or even counter-grab his way out of the startup of d.6C however, so don't be predictable with this attack. Its good if your opponent is sitting around blocking everything, but be weary of more active opponents. If a stronger opponent blocks this attack... be sure to hit them in the sweetspot, so that you can safely use d.5B and push them away on block. Practically all decent opponents will instant-block this.

236D -- Bloom Trigger. This attack pushes the opponent away on block, but an instant-blocking opponent can punish you afterwards.

214D -- Assault Through. This attack crosses up the opponent and has a huge amount of full invincibility frames near the startup... you are immune to even grabs during this time. However, every opponent worth his salt will grab you out of this attack when your invincibility ends.

623D -- Spring Raid. Noel's fastest attack from Chain Revolver. Great hitbox, guard crushes the opponent but extremely unsafe on block. If your opponent is low on primers, and he's blocking d.6C... you can use 623D and crush one more guard primer.

[Halcyone3]

why do u disagree with TSK's video? O_o

and 214D also takes a primer. It's relatively nice if used very rarely, and i've seen it used like some ragnas use their hell's fang follow-up, RC after taking primer and continue into pressure. Noel dosen't have ragna's pressure or options after an RC like that, but u can catch a couple people who try to punish the 214D on reflex.

[dragontamer]

why do u disagree with TSK's video? O_o

CT Noel's Chain revolver is so slow it isn't really a mixup. remember, 6D in that game was over 30 frames. Block high and react to lows: both of Noel's low options in CT took 30+ frames (214A and 6D). 214D was always slow, and I don't really recommend it as a crossup except at lower level play.

In CS, 214D has less range. More often than not, I don't even hit with 214D, I just whiff and gently nudge the opponent away. In this case, you don't even get the chance to Rapid Cancel.

[archling]

I'm going to start playing like keshigomu =D.. omfg fucking beast.

[Mizzet]

Where did you see his vid's? SBO stuff? I've not come across it yet.

[archling]

Yeah SBO. Smart rush down, only uses normals and very rarely used D, but still gets damage? solid solid solid solid solid... He doesn't really use mixups, but gets hits by poking really really really really well.