[CT] Noel 6C Throw Cancel Loop

[SilentValkyrie]

Hey everyone. Let me kick this off by saying I am totally new to Blazblue. Like, completely green. I have played a handful of fighting games in the past, but I am a beginner through and through.

Okay. With that disclaimer out of the way, I am here for some help with some basic Noel combos. And, yes, I have read the beginners thread, but I still need help.

As a total noob, I decided to attempt to learn a few of Noel's combos before I did anything else since that seemed like a solid idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJrhEqfHiwU

This video seemed like a reasonable place to start, so I began with the first combo. Something like:

> > > >

So far so good. Believe it or not, even I can manage this combo. (I won't tell you how long it took to learn. Just kidding.)

Moving on to number two we have:

> > > > > > and finally

Now remember, this is basically my first time really trying a fighting game, so while this stuff might be second nature to all of you, it took me a while (not joking) to get this one to work. I can now do it properly most of the time and am pretty sure I'm doing it "right."

Here's where things fall apart. Combo Number 3.

In the video it's listed as:

(Please forgive my notation if it's improper, I'm doing my best here.)

> ( > + > :f:) (x3) etc.

Okay. Deep breaths. I didn't list the whole thing because I can't get past the first part. In a sense, I get what's going on here, but can't seem to pull it off.

Basically, I am starting with forward A (a kick). I then do forward C, except I cancel the second part of the move with a throw. After the throw misses, I dash forward and once again do a forward C, which I proceed to cancel with a throw. Rise, wash, repeat 3 times and then get on with some drive moves.

In theory, this makes sense. The thing is, I cannot for the life of me get the timing right on the dash to forward C. Any tips? How many times should I be hitting after the throw but before the next ?

As I am doing it right now, one of three things happens.

1) I mess up completely and have to start over. (This happens more than I care to admit.)

2) I cancel the first C move with a throw and follow up with another forward C. I maintain the combo, but the problem is I don't dash in between. So now I am too far away from my opponent to continue hitting them and the combo fails.

3) I manage to dash to a second forward C, but I am too slow and the combo turns dark red (in training mode) suggesting I am too slow and suck at life.

Can anyone help me on the timing with this "throw cancel" to dash business? I know I'm not a great player, so I do expect this to take time, but I cannot get it to work in the slightest. When do you input the dash command? During the throw? After?

Any help would be appreciated and I promise I'll let you know how it goes.

[Alphakami]

One method would be to watch the throw whiff animation carefully, and use it as a visual cue. Once you know 'where' the throw whiff is done, and you can perform an action again, that's the timing point for the 2nd Forward (and hold it) in the dash input. Work backwards starting your 1st forward a little before the throw whiff animation finished. If you need a little more timing work, push someone like Tager deep in the corner, and do 6A 6C (B+C) 6C (B+C) wash rinse. Once you can get 6 or more reps of the 6C consistent like, probably a good time to start working with the dash part. Your assessment is correct about it being second nature to many of us, and that comes with lots of practice, naturally. Learning combos take a minute for basically everyone. 16 years into fighters, and I still spend some solid time in Training Mode. Keep at it, no worries pimp.

[dragontamer]

I was a complete n00b in July, so I know the feeling.

You just gotta practice, there's no secret. It is simple muscle memorization. I spent several hours over the course of ~3 days in practice mode up against the corner getting the timing of the 6C BC loop. When I played against people, I just used the air combo instead of her BNB Drive.

After three days, I could pull it off in the corner consistently. I then practiced it on Arakune mid-screen (which requires 6C BC 66C, so that you dash in on the 2nd one), and I still practice that every now and then to make sure I don't lose it.

So in essence: just practice. Its easier in the corner vs Tager, so start there, but be sure to learn how to do it mid-screen vs Arakune and Carl.

[Tae Seong Kim]

Questions concerning the 6C throw cancel loop come up quite often in this forum and all have been eliminated. But I am actually gonna sticky this one to prevent more. TC, Ima gonna hijack your thread and change the title. And like Alphakami posted. Try the combo on a larger character first. Take it one step at a time. Don't be down if you miss one dash, the loop can still continue, all is not lost.

[SilentValkyrie]

Edit:

Sure thing Tae Seong. I do apologize if this is a topic that gets a little too much airtime. I probably should have searched more carefully before I posted. And no worries about the title change. Works for me.

Thanks Alpha and Dragon. I'll have a chance to play tomorrow, so I'll see how that goes.

I wish there was a way to slow training mode down so that I could get the inputs correct and then work on speed. Right now I want to avoid going to fast and learning the wrong thing.

Anyway. I'll put some more time into it tomorrow. Hopefully I will see some progress.

[dragontamer]

And like Alphakami posted. Try the combo on a larger character first. Take it one step at a time. Don't be down if you miss one dash, the loop can still continue, all is not lost.

Note that in a battle, if you screw up during the loop, that means you just whiffed a 6C on an opponent. Expect to lose ~4k health to a counter-hit combo against a good player.

All hope is not lost, but screwing up this loop can have huge repercussions :-(

[Rabbit360]

try practicing with your opponent in the corner -- right in their face -- without the dashes in between your throw cancels just to get a feel for it. Also I found that starting with 6A (Forward A) > 6C etc.. was initially more difficult to do than starting with 3C (down+forward C) into throw cancel loop. Try (again in the corner, right in opponents face) (6B*) > 3C > 22C > 66C > B+C > 6C > B+C > 6C > B+C ... until they fall out of it. Once that's easy enough try mid-screen with dashes. Then you can try to learn to finish it with chain revolver ender (route 1 from the guide thread). * note: for practice you can leave out the 6B.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

How is this one combo so problematic x_x Just learn the timing and buffer the first 6 during the throw animation, just get the feeling down, thats just about it. I jumped right into it, and got it pretty quickly, i dont think much of this practice and prep is really necessary. just control your fingers, know what youre doing, and apply it in fights.. Its 4 6C's from 5A 6A or 6A.

[dragontamer]

How is this one combo so problematic x_x

*Insert Might Guy's "Genius of Hard Work" speech here*

Some people just need more practice than other people. What comes naturally to some doesn't come naturally to others.

[Hellmonkey]

Just press C immediately after you input the 66 for your run (input 6, 6C)

[Nitrocidal]

Note that in a battle, if you screw up during the loop, that means you just whiffed a 6C on an opponent. Expect to lose ~4k health to a counter-hit combo against a good player.

All hope is not lost, but screwing up this loop can have huge repercussions :-(

Missing the DASH may not have repercussions though.

Certain characters, like, Jin, you can do 6A 6C (BC) 6C (BC) 6C Drive combo with no dash at all assuming a closest range 6A. Most characters cept like, Carla, arakune, Tao, etc you can get at least 2 on with no Dash.

Keeping that in mind will allow you to at least move on to learn the rest of the combo, be it air or groudn bnb. And the damage won't be TOO much smaller.

the 66C is done, assuming no online or HDTV lag, when Noel 'bobs' Her head after the grab whiff.

In other news dont' worry abotu how long it took to learn the air combo either. Only ever played SF games before this so air combos were non existant. Took me a looong time to get used to them myself. Jins air BnB and Ragna's air bnb's were hard to get down.

[dragontamer]

> > > >

So far so good. Believe it or not, even I can manage this combo. (I won't tell you how long it took to learn. Just kidding.)

BTW: good for you. Unfortunately, that combo is completely useless, and does less damage than >. Its a terrible block string, and a terrible combo. Please never do that combo ever again.

> > > > > > and finally

Similarly, you'll do more damage with

> > > > > and finally

The generally makes combos weaker. Don't use it in combos unless its necessary.

[SilentValkyrie]

Lots of good stuff here. I have a busy day ahead of me, so I will see if I can squeeze in some practice at some point.

HDTV lag huh. I guess I have heard about this before. How big an issue it is? I have a very nice LCD TV, but I assume there probably is some lag. I'm just not sensitive enough to notice it I'm sure.

Here's what I have: Bravia XBR9

Is there any way to test how bad the lag is?

Dang. I never thought about Lag before. It's a really nice TV otherwise, but am I in trouble b/c it's not a CRT or Plasma?

[Halcyone3]

Similarly, you'll do more damage with

> > > > > and finally

The generally makes combos weaker. Don't use it in combos unless its necessary.

actually the version with the j.A in it can do more damage, at least im pretty sure it did back when i tried these (like 5 days after buying the game and seeing both of those in the tutorial vids XD). It has a bad proration, but the combo after it is not long enough for it to hurt it completely. Though j.C->j.B->dj.B->dj.C->dj.236C has always been a better choice for me after a 6A, and after u get better, the sj.B->sj.C->sj.B->dsj.B->dsj.C->dsj.236C is an awesome choice. Or heck, u can do 6C after 6A and go into BnB.

and as for the difficulty of the 6C->BC loop, it does vary between people, i personally dont like risking more than 3 6C hits, or even more than 1 against a certain tiny twat.

heck even now i do some mistakes like missing my dash (i rly hate this 1 x.x) and end up doing the fancy gun twirl into shot while the opponent hits the floor and techs safely.

[Danny Schme]

I'm completely inconsistent with my dashing. Yes, I know I should spend more time in training... Bo I generally only do 2 or 3 hits of the 6C loop depending on the character so I don't have to worry about the dash and just go straight into BnB drive combo. Especially if I'm online playing on a less than perfect connection. Though in the corner, that's a different story depending on the combo I want to do.

[Rabbit360]

Your TV is fine. I have a 32" Sony Bravia HDTV and there is no noticeable input lag.

[Halcyone3]

ok, here's the actual damage of those jump combos: 6A->j.A->j.B->dj.B->dj.C->dj.236C (2251) 6A->j.B->dj.B->dj.C->dj.236C (2157) 6A->j.C->j.B->dj.B->dj.C->dj.236C (2386) 6A->sj.B->sj.C->sj.B->dsj.B->dsj.C->dsj.236C (2420) u can do 6C's after the 6A before the air combos for more damage, can reach above 3k. Best i found on training was 6A->6C x6->sj combo for 3328 damage. to sum it up, generally better to add the j.A for round 100 more damage, not much, but its not any more dificult than just j.B so why not? the last 2 versions are much better but since they use more than 1 j.C (which hits multiple times) the untechable time is shorter so if u use these at the end of a long combo u won't reach the 236C. in other words, i think the best way would be to learn the first, third, and fourth of those and use 1 depending on the combo length, or use the first every time, u don't miss out of a large ammount of damage and its crazy simple. choice is up to u EDIT: doing 6A->6C x4->BnB does 3396 damage, its probably a better choice off a 6A hit. I personally recommend doing the BnB and only switching to a jump combo if you have already landed too many hits and BnB would whiff (like after BC->214A->2B->6C, where BnB would whiff, you could do the 4th jump combo, etc etc).

[DC]

I'm sure this has already been posted, but it's not always 6c 66c 66c. 6c are dependent on the situation, sometimes you can do 6c 6c, sometimes it needs to be 6c 66c, and other times you can only get off one 6c before you need to start your drive combo.

[CrescentSaber]

I have trouble doing the dashes between the 6cs. I usually just do two 6cs then start my drive combo. If I try more I end up screwing up the combo.

[Mizzet]

Just a matter of practice, there's nothing much to it. When i first started bb i remember it was one of those things that seemed nigh impossible to me, give it time and it'll become second nature.

[Diolon]

Just got it down today (woo!) After reading everything everybody wrote, It seems like there was no real secret to getting it down aside from copious amounts of practice. Understanding the inputs and visualizing them worked for me. So my advice to people still trying to get this down is to not get discouraged and keep at it.

[Circuitous]

On the topic of the 6A jump combos, is it worth mixing up an air throw into that, ever? For example, > jc. > j. > jc. > j. > + Basically replace the with +. I can only get it to cancel early in the last j., after a couple frames it doesn't seem to wanna take. Anyway it does slightly better damage as I recall, and it's a nice change of pace from but it's techable (and how). So yeah, is it worth ever going for that? (Also, I got all giddy when I found out a combo I'd picked up after a couple tries in practice mode is a BnB. I was just there to make sure I could do all the moves so I didn't waste time in Story mode, haha.) Edit: wait, apparently the can be cancelled into a throw, too, but with a rapid cancel. Worth the heat, in that case? If you RC into a throw, does that give your opponent the extended tech window, or not? I should read the general threads.

[Mizzet]

Generally, comboing into a throw and giving them the purple exclamation marks is a bad idea, because the tech window is so large that it is easily teched even by bad people. And if their reaction time is really that bad that this is a viable option, then you shouldn't have a problem beating them anyway. Even more so if you are spending 50 meter just to rc into a throw. Edit: rcing 236c into a throw gives them the purple exclamation marks as well.

[Circuitous]

That's what I thought, thanks.

[Halcyone3]

combo->j.C->BC would only do a little less than combo->j.C->j.236C->RC->BC. I don't think a very slight increase in damage is worth 50 heat. As for mixing in throws into ur jump combos, i personally do it too and i think it's fine to do as long as u don't get too repetitive with it, use sparingly (and rarely), and also change the point at which u throw them.