Klaige Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 6C is probably the normal i'm having the hardest time figuring out how to use properly. I get all the concepts it can do with spacing and catching mashers, but most of the time the only time i get it out is when i fuck up a combo. I definitely need to play with it more,.
kazukifafner Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Well, to my knowledge, 6C is only particularly useful as a counter hit, so the best way to use it is unpredictably (granted, that in itself is Hazama in a nutshell). After you land the counter hit, go for the standard BnB combo off of 3C.
WUT Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 6C is probably Hazama's worst normal (although 6B comes close), so I wouldn't stress too hard about trying to find a niche for it. If it even has any interesting properties (being low invulnerable or counted as in the air so it's throw invulnerable come to mind thanks to the animation), they come far too late into the startup of the normal to be useful for catching mashers. Better off sticking to frame traps and maintaining consistent pressure rather than giving up momentum and returning to neutral should they choose to guard the whole time.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Yes, and for more damage (almost 4K if you do a normal BnB). CH Stun allows a dash in 3C or a 5D j2C 5B 3C stuff o_o?
g.Bauer Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 CH Stun allows a dash in 3C or a 5D j2C 5B 3C stuff o_o? Never tried dash 3C but 5D j2C etc... works.
WUT Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Max range 6C allows for 5D-> D, j.2C 5C 3C into combo. Closer in and you can do dash 3C into combo.
J-KT21 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Oh boy, I've just picked up Hazama and am having trouble with him already. I'm bad with the joystick, as I hadn't touched it for like a month (and I was never good with it to begin with!) and am getting my ass kicked by Hell computers. What should I learn first? I know 2 of his BnB combos (5B > 3C > 214D-C > 5C > 2C > 623D or (JC) > j.B > j.C x n > dj.C x n > dj.214B) I also know his 213D moves already. (A being his forward overhead, B being his backward jump, C being his low slash and D canceling everything.) Trying to get the Drive angles right and huh... What are his best approaches? I usually mess up my Drive timing A LOT. And mostly use j.B / j.2C to approach from the air or try getting a 3C in.
kazukifafner Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 What should I learn first? I know 2 of his BnB combos (5B > 3C > 214D-C > 5C > 2C > 623D or (JC) > j.B > j.C x n > dj.C x n > dj.214B) Combine (and add/subtract a few things) those into: 5B > 3C > 214D~C > 5C > (JC) > j.B > j.C x n > 2C > 4D~D > j.C x n > dj.C x n > dj.214B Also, learn how to effectively use 236236B and 214D~B. Trying to get the Drive angles right and huh... What are his best approaches? I usually mess up my Drive timing A LOT. And mostly use j.B / j.2C to approach from the air or try getting a 3C in. Yeah, just test out all of his angles and you'll figure out in pretty quickly, lol. His best approaches are long distance chain hits. The stun is incredibly long, and you can use ~D or ~C to continue the combo into his BnB. Other than that, you shouldn't really try and approach to much with Hazama. Basically, you want to try and hit them with D + Followup if you can; but otherwise, it's best to let your opponent come to you.
J-KT21 Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Combine (and add/subtract a few things) those into: 5B > 3C > 214D~C > 5C > (JC) > j.B > j.C x n > 2C > 4D~D > j.C x n > dj.C x n > dj.214B Also, learn how to effectively use 236236B and 214D~B. Yeah, just test out all of his angles and you'll figure out in pretty quickly, lol. His best approaches are long distance chain hits. The stun is incredibly long, and you can use ~D or ~C to continue the combo into his BnB. Other than that, you shouldn't really try and approach to much with Hazama. Basically, you want to try and hit them with D + Followup if you can; but otherwise, it's best to let your opponent come to you. Alright, thanks. I'll work on it. How about blockstrings & wake-up game? How should I pressure my opponents? I know that he is no Ragna/Bang, but he should indeed have a few mixups... No need to run away all the time after a knockdown, right?
Ragnarok Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 2A is good okizeme move. 2A > 5B random numbers of 2A at different speed 2A > 6A/B >jayoku 2A > 236C/BC
kazukifafner Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 2A > 6A/B >jayoku I'm assuming the 2A has to be a CH?
Klaige Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I'm assuming the 2A has to be a CH? He's saying it as if the 2A is blocked. Those are mixup strings. I.e. you make them block a meaty 2A then guess between 6A or 6B. if the 6A/B connects, then combo to Jayoku.
WUT Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Meaty 2A or 5B are best for oki, as 2A will pick up tech rolling (lazy and easy hit confirm: 2A, 5B, 2C, 4D-> D j.C x5, dj.C x5 xx j.214B for a ~2K roll punish). If you're concerned with applying pressure/mixup then 5B is much stronger, as it gives you more guardstun with which to frame trap and condition them not to poke out of your mixup. Plus it gatlings into everything you need for mixup and pressure (2B, 3c, 5C, 6A/B/C) and is jump cancellable.
kazukifafner Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Can someone tell me which of characters can't get hit by 623D > 3C > 236236B (I know Jin's one of them)
WUT Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Jin gets hit by 3C 236236B. It just depends on how long you delay inputting 3C after the dash, along with their distance relative to you. Hitting 623D as late as you can gives you more time to dash deeper.
Klaige Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 Jin gets hit by 3C 236236B. It just depends on how long you delay inputting 3C after the dash, along with their distance relative to you. Hitting 623D as late as you can gives you more time to dash deeper. Yea something i've just started to realize is the longer it takes the opponent to hit the ground, the more time you have to follow up a 623D. The closer they are to the ground/wall the less likely you are to be able to follow up. For example if you are back against the corner as far as possible, and hit someone with a basic juggle into 623D, you won't recover in time to combo after wards. But if you are a 4 or 5 character lengths away from the corner, you'll have practically all day to relaunch with a 2B or 5C.
eirei Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 link removed until project is finished Last edited by Spirit Juice; 03-03-2010 at 12:30 PM. ... Why the hell would someone REMOVE the framedata link because it's not TRANSLATED? Good job, Spirit Juice. Does someone have another link? I lost my image :|
NumeroGaijin Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 Because it is being translated as we speak. It won't be too much longer that's why I assume. I for one cannot read Japanese and since the frame data wasn't translated it was useful but more useless due to the fact that there are LOTS I don't understand as well as many others.
freelander Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I could understood that almost only his 5B is good on block lol.
Tetra - K Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Move.......|Damage|Initial Proration|General Proration|Note: 5A...........|250......|80%...............|82%...................| 5B...........|400......|90%...............|90%...................| 5C...........|280x2...|100%.............|89%...................| 2A...........|150......|80%...............|82%...................| 2B...........|450......|70%...............|80%...................| 2C...........|500......|90%...............|89%...................| 6A...........|600......|75%...............|80%...................| 6B...........|600......|80%...............|80%...................| 6C...........|300x3...|100%.............|89%...................| can be canceled if CH 3C...........|600......|85%...............|89%...................| j.A...........|180......|80%...............|82%...................| j.B...........|450......|90%...............|86%...................| j.C...........|600......|90%...............|88%...................| j.C(2nd hit)|300.....|90%...............|88%...................| j.C(3rd hit)|300......|90%...............|88%...................| j.C(4th hit)|300......|90%...............|88%...................| j.C(5th hit)|700......|90%...............|88%...................| j.2C.........|500......|80%...............|80%...................| throw.......|0.800...|100%..............|100.65%............| rev. throw.|0.800...|100%..............|100.65%............| j. throw....|0.1000..|100%.............|100.65%.............| Ourobouros moves 5D..........|500.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| proration for hitting with follow up or without follow up 2D..........|600.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| 6D..........|600.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| 4D..........|600.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| j.D..........|500.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| j.2D........|400.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| j.6D........|400.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| j.4D........|400.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| j.8D........|600.......|100.70%.........|84.94%..............| Special attacks 236D......|550.......|80%...................|92%..................| 214D......|............|..........................|.......................| Stance, so no damage and proration, you can delay the input of the move for improved damage and proration (stanced move). 214D->A.|450.......|60%...................|89%..................| (stanced)|500.......|60%...................|92%..................| 214D->B.|700.......|60%...................|80%..................| (stanced)|900.......|75%...................|90%..................| 214D->C.|650.......|80%...................|80%..................| (stanced)|750.......|85%...................|86%..................| stance cancel......l..........................|........................| 214B(air)|400........|75%...................|92%..................| 236C......|0...........|75%...................|92%..................| 623D......|0.2000...|70%...................|100%..................| 236236B.|2500.....|70%...................|94%..................| 632146C.|200.0....|75%...................|92%..................| follow up.|500x8...|75%...................|92%..................| total.......|3200.....|75%...................|92%..................| 6321463214D.......|..........................|75%...................| Astral. For those who are interested by proration and damage waiting the full version to be translated. Can contains errors so leave a message if you see and error. I will update that until the full translated version of the picture come out. Hi by the way, I'm new to this forum and currently practising Hazama since a couple of months. bjholmes if you want to add this to your guide thread, it's ok.
Redefinition Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 So... Any reason in particular why 2A, 2B or 2C aren't in there?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 It's not completed yet, if you read what he said properly you'd see that.
Redefinition Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I read what he said, it just seemed odd that all the 2 numbers were gone and they might have just been left out on accident, bro. I probably made that comment a little hastily, sorry. Also out of curiosity (and this relates to why I was asking), does anyone know which of these is the more damaging? 5B 3C 214D>C 5C (j.C)xn (land) 2C 4D>D (j.C)xn (dj.C)xn j.214B or 5B 3C 214D>C 2C (j.C)xn (land) 2C 4D>D (j.C)xn (dj.C)xn j.214B Edited to not be lazy and post the whole combos.
Tetra - K Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 2A...........|150......|80%...............|82%...................| 2B...........|450......|70%...............|80%...................| 2C...........|500......|90%...............|89%...................| Ahah sorry Redef was right I just forgot them by accident ^^; I edited on the previous post. Soon to come, the cancel table, I just have a lot of work so it's really really slow. Also out of curiosity (and this relates to why I was asking), does anyone know which of these is the more damaging? 5B 3C 214D>C 5C (j.C)xn (land) 2C 4D>D (j.C)xn (dj.C)xn j.214B or 5B 3C 214D>C 2C (j.C)xn (land) 2C 4D>D (j.C)xn (dj.C)xn j.214B Edited to not be lazy and post the whole combos. 5C...........|280x2...|100%.............|89%...... .............| 2C...........|500......|90%...............|89%.... ...............| 5C has all the way better damage and proration, the thing is, it has 2 hit, correct me if I'm wrong but when the ennemy is too far only one hit is dealt so answer is : depend the situation. By the way zakiyama always use the 5C j.C*n 2C j.214B# so am I lol.
FlyingVe Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Sorry if this has been asked before, but how soon after doing 214D and you cancel into one of the follow-ups? In other words, how many vulnerable frames are there before you can begin the flash kick (214D~B)?
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