[CS1] Hazama Gameplay Discusson

[Dangle]

I haven't had a chance to try this out a lot but I'm thinking Hazama's oki game is pretty good if you can get a jakou on your opponent. If you think they're going to tech roll, jump and 6D. If they're going to neutral tech, 5D. Either way, you get another combo. What do you think, is this right?

if you know they're going to tech roll and you're next to them as hazama is with most of his combo's i'd toss out 2B tbh, it picks them up off a roll and you can go into the same combo string as when near the corner and hitting 623D. if they're going to neutral tech i usually use 236C or meaty'd 2A/6A, you get a good mixup on them if they neutral tech while you're near, if you're far i would throw out the j.6D to keep them in place and keep your zoning up.

[FlyingVe]

Just for confirmation, this stuff only works against people with no reversals, right?

I may very well be missing something, but I think Hazama is actually at a disadvantage against characters like tager after doing a <launch, j.CxN, 214B> combo. Since Hazama lands right on top of the opponent, and tager can just tager buster. Jumping away isn't an option because of atomic collider. I end up having to backdash.

In general... does anyone have advice on a good way to pressure characters on wakeup if they have a reversal?

It's really no different than pressuring DP characters in any other game. On wake up you have to decide wether to poke of bait. Same with Tager, if he's gonna grab jump at the last minute and tag him, do the opposite for collider. Also, IAD backwards jB will still tag tager on wakeup.

EDIT: I re-read your post. It's important to note that after hitting someone with j214B the enemy won't be able to tech for a bit after you hit the ground. it's not long but it's plenty of time to get out of the way of Tager's 360 and DP's. If the opponent throws a move like that, it's a guess so you can guess right and punish hard. Because of Hazama's huge punish damage, a lot of players wont bother DPing, especially since his pressure is so bad.

[Eclipse]

Just a quick side note on a combo the Dustloop community might be interested in. I was testing out some combos I made up the other day, and came across this flashy one:

5B 3C xx 214D-> C, 5C 2C xx 4D->A, 4D xx 623D, 632146C [4017]

In most situations, it's more practical to save the heat and pull off a Jayoku Houtenjin. But it's a pretty cool combo regardless. The only practical applications I see with it are if your opponent has low health, and you happen to get 50 heat at some point in the normal BnB you're going into. Change it to that, and you can finish them early.

The hardest part of getting down the combo is connect the 623D at the end. In order to pull it off successfully, you need to make sure the opponent's far enough away when you use 3C. And starting 5B from the right distance, it's not too difficult to pull off.

[Arifureta]

^ Take off the 4D->A, 4D and your 623D is guaranteed to hit.

Another 50 heat combo you can do if you happen to suddenly build up enough during your BnB is:

5B > 3C > 214D~~C > 5C > j.Cx5 (land) > jayoku

[Eclipse]

Yeah, but without 4D->A and 4D, I'm not sure if you can hit with his Distortion Drive afterwards. I think they need to be high enough in the air in order to Combo Jakou into Mizuchi Rekkazan. Your combo sounds good as well. That way you can use one of the many combos after Jayoku, with that many hits beforehand, they may be able to tech early though.

[kazukifafner]

It seems like it'd be good for a flashy kill combo, but it's really not as practical. After all, you can easily get 4.5k+ damage from a single Houtenjin.

[Manta]

Interesting bug I bumped into whilst playing against Hazama as Hakumen:

I got hit by Mizuchi Rekkazan, but as hazama sent out the oroborus to suck me in it hit my projectile orb that I'd made beforehand, so the snakechain just kept going with Hazama still frozen mid-move, whilst I was able to move again.

Thing is, I then tried to attack him, little realising that he was completely invulnerable at this point and when I got close enough to him his autocombo triggered and I got the full force of it.

Funny all the same.

[Eclipse]

Wow, that does sound like quite the glitch, haha. Hopefully they fix it when the console version is released.

Also, that combo has some practical uses if you get 50 Heat mid Combo, but you still may be able to use a Jayoku Houtenjin from there anyways, so I'm not sure. However, I do know if Jayoku is too late into the combo, your opponent can usually tech out sometime during the followup.

[kazukifafner]

So, I just experienced the fabled 2nd hit of Hazama's jB. I was up against Carl (just trying random stuff against the CPU). He and Nirvana had me in a corner with Carl having enough health left for one hit. I'm falling down from a jump, and hit Nirvana with jB, but as I keep descending, Carl get's hit with the jB as he pulls his leg back in (similar to Jin's 5B).

Idk, I thought it was interesting.

[4r5]

Huh wha? Hitting Nirvana doesn't remove the hit potential of a move, if a remember correctly. I dunno what this j.B 2nd hit talk is, but even one hit moves can hit Nirvana and still hit Carl, and vice versa.

[kazukifafner]

Hmm, well, it seemed like the active frames would have run out by the time I reached Carl.

[4r5]

ah, just skimmed the frame data. j.B is a one hit move with disjoint active frames.

[FlyingVe]

I think the reason some people say 2 hits is because if you do jB as a cross up, the move will turn itself around after becoming active, and bop them in the back of the head. This is cause by the aforementioned disjointed hit frames.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

What exactly are hazama's chains? Are they counted as projectiles? But they also freeze you when you hit a yukikaze? like noel's C Moves? D: That has got to be the shittiest property for an attack in the game :\

[Eclipse]

What exactly are hazama's chains? Are they counted as projectiles? But they also freeze you when you hit a yukikaze? like noel's C Moves? D: That has got to be the shittiest property for an attack in the game :\

I know Hakumen can slash Hazama's chains, and I believe Tager can do the same with some of his moves. I didn't think hitting Yukikaze froze you when you hit it though. I could be thinking of the wrong move. But one of Jin's attacks will travel through his chain, and freeze after hitting him... But you can easily retract it with A and block the attack.

Even if the property's were somewhat lacking, Hazama's zoning and strong combos make up for it. In the end, I'm just saying he's a relatively balanced character. If anything, on the high mid tiers.

[FlyingVe]

Hazama's chains count as both a striking attack and a projectile, just like Noel's guns and Jin's Ice. This means that they can be cut and sledged, and will also wiff against moves like Carnage scissors. As far as attack properties go, it just kinda sucks.

I read something somewhere about the chains being a striking attack up close, and projectile at a distance, but I do not believe this is the case.

In the end, I'm just saying he's a relatively balanced character. If anything, on the high mid tiers.

Hazama is at the bottom of the A tier, at -5 overall. His capacity to do weird stuff, and his tools, make all of his match-ups very winnable.

[Eclipse]

His capacity to do weird stuff, and his tools. I really like the way you phrased that, no sarcasm. I'd agree completely. I love characters with deceptive mixup and "strange" techniques used to win. I'm glad he turned out to be a good character, I just hope everyone doesn't start using hiim when CS is released on the console. I'll be dealing with way too many mirror matches...

[FlyingVe]

I wouldn't worry abut him being overused. He's really hard to wrap your head around, and requires some pretty tight execution (by BB standards) to play well. A lot of people will talk about playing him, only to get frustrated when they actually get the chance.

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't worry abut him being overused. He's really hard to wrap your head around, and requires some pretty tight execution (by BB standards) to play well. A lot of people will talk about playing him, only to get frustrated when they actually get the chance.

Well, that's very reassuring. Personally, I find him relatively easy to use now. But maybe that's because he took me a long time to get his combos down. If he is a relatively difficult character to use, that's even better. Since I really enjoy using someone who takes a bit more skill.

[Arifureta]

The thing about Hazama is that it's very easy to learn his standard BnBs (mashing Cs? How easy can you get?). It's learning how to get into it from any situation that's the challenge with playing this character.

If anything, we'll probably see a lot of Hakumen players. Cs all day.

[Eclipse]

The thing about Hazama is that it's very easy to learn his standard BnBs (mashing Cs? How easy can you get?). It's learning how to get into it from any situation that's the challenge with playing this character.

If anything, we'll probably see a lot of Hakumen players. Cs all day.

Yeah, Hakumen really got buffed up in this game. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things go.

[Justice7541]

I wouldn't worry abut him being overused. He's really hard to wrap your head around, and requires some pretty tight execution (by BB standards) to play well. A lot of people will talk about playing him, only to get frustrated when they actually get the chance.

If you look at his BnB it goes like:

5B 3C 214D~C 5C j.CCCCC 2C 4D~D j.CCCCC JC j.CCCCC

Nu mash D, Hazama mash C.

In all seriousness though, how is -5 in any way A tier? That sounds like pretty solid middle B to me, and if I recall correctly the only characters in A tier are Carl and Hakumen.

[Arifureta]

http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=574309&postcount=1

The only character in A tier is Ragna.

Unless that's Ragna tier, then Hazama would be in the A tier.

[kazukifafner]

Hazama is definitely B tier. Heck, even on B tier, he leans more towards B-.

[FlyingVe]

I guess I just read the list differently I have been calling Ragna S- and Hakumen through Hazama A, Arakune through Tager B, and Rachel C. Whatever, the important things are that he's -5 overall, and none of his matches are catastrophically bad.

Though his BnB involves a lot of Mash C, in many cases getting the C mash to connect can be tricky. In addition, his FC punishes require some tight timing, and often times you will need do dash after 214D~C to connect on midget character. This combined with him movement restrictions/talents make him a difficult character to play by BB standards.