AC: Combos

[Kurokun]

In regard to bubble loop setups I use, they pretty much depend on what corner oki setup I'm using, hitconfirms, and opponent reaction.

Corner Oki: 214H,P>mixup...

-c.S>6P>421>j.H>j.214K>]S[>bubble pop or manual with j.K>land>j.K>j.S>jc.S>j.D

If the 6P results off of a mixup w or w/o the help of a c.S, there is a chance I'll loop off of it this but sometimes I'll opt to combo to knockdown instead.

Works on the following chars: BA, JA, MA, MI, TE, PO, ZA, FA, CH.

-bubble hit (launch)>421>loop...

Sometimes I get a bubble in as part of the mixup and I'll get a launch off of it if successful. From there its possible to go straight into a loop but more often than not I'll use f.S>icespike for knockdown and back into oki setup.

The ones off of CH 2S and 2H are tricky because you have to react immediately as it happens. Off of CH 2H I end up just doing H fish>dash 2P>f.S>icespike for knockdown. Or you can do H fish>dash 2H>laser>421>loop instead if you are capable. This usually happens anywhere from midscreen to outside of the corner in my experience.

The bubble loop setup that starts with 6H and with air pike out (held) is good too though I don't use it as much, lol.

Anyways, I sat a little in practice yesterday and I found two bubble loop corner setups that work on everybody, including Axl with the retard hitbox and robo who weighs a billion tons or something

1) HP Fish, IAD j.2S, laser, ad.2S j.H, land, bite (short dash) 6P > 421 > bubble loop The short dash is not always necessary

2) HP Fish, dash 2k, laser, dash 2k/c.S > 6P > 421 > bubble loop (Might not be worth it what with 2k proration, but bubble loops look awesome )

Yes, they are both okizeme setups. The reason both work is that the P bite fish will help you lift your opponent. I'm still working on followups after the first one if they block it, right now I'm thinking something like c.S 2S IAD j.2S > new mixup

These 2 setups that Nehle came up with and posted some time ago are quite good

Despite the damage potential of bubble loops, I keep this in mind:

Don't do a bubble loop unless you're sure it's going to kill the opponent (or it's Baiken, always go for max damage on Baiken). Some characters are just too dangerous to let out of the corner regardless of damage.

Combo priority against most characters is

1) Kill

2) Knockdown in corner

3) Knockdown anywhere else

4) Damage

The damage you get is good but even better if you can get an extra rep in before going for an air combo ender. However, that will depend on your own ability to land the loop successfully. Sometimes it is better to just combo to knockdown so you can do an oki setup versus dealing straight damage. Like with IceSpike FRC IAD followup combos; you can get damage from the followup combo but you lose the chance for knockdown to start oki, though in some cases the IAD followup combo makes for a good finisher. And if has a knockdown to work with along with solid oki that leads into a mixup for a combo/throw, back to knockdown, and repeats, things are looking good for her because she is controlling the pace of the matchup, imo.

Despite being limited to situational/conditional usage, bubble loop makes for an awesome finisher in the corner - if you are successful in executing it, lol.

[Killerwatt]

Guys I'm having trouble with the followup combo after a throw (2K->5S->Icespike)...it seems that it doesn't work on all characters and I was wondering if someone could let me know the timing I need to move forward and 2K because what usually happens when I try to after a throw is 1. I don't move at all or 2. 2K hits but 5S (5cS) whiffs) 3. 2K hits, 5S hits but Icespike whiffs. Thanks guys.

[Kurokun]

For the instances in which 2K doesn't work, use 2P instead as an alternate starter for the throw followup combo. As for f.S stuffs, you may not want to go for the full extent of hits because it might push your opponent out of range for the IceSpike. Instead you use less f.S hits so the IceSpike is still able to hit afterwards. You should be able to dash immediately after throw ends and followup with 2P/2K, just practice it to get a feeling for the timing.

[zaeris]

Guys I'm having trouble with the followup combo after a throw (2K->5S->Icespike)...it seems that it doesn't work on all characters and I was wondering if someone could let me know the timing I need to move forward and 2K because what usually happens when I try to after a throw is

1. I don't move at all or

2. 2K hits but 5S (5cS) whiffs)

3. 2K hits, 5S hits but Icespike whiffs.

Thanks guys.

The secret.. add 11 herbs and spices, it's that easy. It’s really just the ability to dash asap after the throw the better you're at inputting 66 at precise timing it will become easier to go 2k 5.fs. From my experience it is easier to use on heavy to medium characters, on lights I usually go 2p. If 2k isn't your thing just stick with 2p, the difference in damage isn't that hot.

I’m surprise ice spike would whiff if you could manage to connect it with F.S

[Tech Romancer]

The secret.. add 11 herbs and spices, it's that easy. It’s really just the ability to dash asap after the throw the better you're at inputting 66 at precise timing it will become easier to go 2k 5.fs. From my experience it is easier to use on heavy to medium characters, on lights I usually go 2p. If 2k isn't your thing just stick with 2p, the difference in damage isn't that hot.

I’m surprise ice spike would whiff if you could manage to connect it with F.S

Yep, works on all characters, even the heavy ones like Roby Ky and strange ones like Slayer. I personally always use 2p to start.

What I hate though, is light and wierd hit-box characters like Johnny. For instance, Jam and Millia will float a hundred miles in the air, sometimes throwing my timing off, and Johnny (usually if I do it near a corner) it'll mess up and I'll get a close S and I have to remember to quickly push s again for the spear version. On the other hand, since his hit box is so huge, I can stick a s.HS in there before the icespike....

[excelence]

u can f.s>Ice spike Johnny fine if u grab him in the corner, if on mid screen just ice spike him to get a knock down and give u extra time to rep your fish summon, for Chip, Bridget, Jam, Millia and Baiken i'd prefer to leave them be to fall down, it's still possible to ice spike them and score a knock down but i'm not sure with the timming but probably late Ice spike that near an OTG pokes that might miss u a knock down

[Tech Romancer]

u can f.s>Ice spike Johnny fine if u grab him in the corner, if on mid screen just ice spike him to get a knock down and give u extra time to rep your fish summon, for Chip, Bridget, Jam, Millia and Baiken i'd prefer to leave them be to fall down, it's still possible to ice spike them and score a knock down but i'm not sure with the timming but probably late Ice spike that near an OTG pokes that might miss u a knock down

Well, of course. I'm not saying its a serious problem, just its easier to get c.S against Johnny in the corner because of his sprite. Sometimes I'd forget that and didn't press S again fast enough, allowing it to become Invalid and the player escaping before I could finish. The light characters like Millia just threw off my timing a little because they float so high. But I have it all under control now.

[excelence]

no, i mean for Jhonny you just need to press S as soon as your throw is finished it's a guaranteed f.s in the corner throw

[Tech Romancer]

no, i mean for Jhonny you just need to press S as soon as your throw is finished it's a guaranteed f.s in the corner throw

You mean, I don't even have to do cr.k or cr.p to get it to combo? Does that mean I will do more damage?

[excelence]

yes, adding 2k/2p doesn't even add the damage much after 75% throw proration iirc, what u need from it is a knock down and extra time to rep the fish summon

[Killerwatt]

Do you guys think it's a good idea to incorporate Dizzy Dust into her mixup? I hear arguments on both sides that her Dust is really useful (second fastet next to Robo-Ky) or it's not worth it because of proration.

[excelence]

well, damage is damage and her dust combos does around 150dmg(a normal icespike gatlling and air combos does around 130) and still give her momentum on the fight... imo she should use all her option since she was really strong on her oki games

[zaeris]

Do you guys think it's a good idea to incorporate Dizzy Dust into her mixup? I hear arguments on both sides that her Dust is really useful (second fastet next to Robo-Ky) or it's not worth it because of proration.

second faster dust what?

U mean second slowest

[Killerwatt]

second faster dust what?

U mean second slowest

Really? I must be getting my info wrong then...to me it seems her dust is really sneaky; especially when the opponent is too busy blocking all the summons. My mistake

[Stag.S]

Yeah it's not that it's insanely fast like RO, it's just that you can confuse the hell out of people with your oki setup so it lands more often. I'd like to hear whoever said NOT to use it though, since Dust is pretty amazing. Even j.D, since the vertical range on her j.D is pretty insane and catches some people off guard. if they're running around. Yeah you should incorporate dust, don't use it all the time but be aware it is an option for you.. only bad thing is off a dust there's only one KD combo followup, and I can't do it that well . Otherwise it's just for damage.

[Nehle]

Dizzys Dust is really slow but the startup animation is pretty subtle, so it may seem faster to people not used to it.l People who know what to look for will block an ordinary dust almost every time without problems. The trick is to distract them with other things, or hide your animation behind a summon. Or if they have some low-block reflexes you may abuse that (jump-in attack, land dust, preferably lots of shit on screen). No summon protecting you will also leave you open for punish. Basically what Stag said, know you have it as an option, but it's far from your only mixup. Also j.D is awesome, and can easily catch people off guard with its range - especially people chasing you. IAD back j.D is a real common match starter for me.

[Alternate275]

What exactly does this bubble loop consist of during he loop? :8/: I get how to set it up. But after the setup, I don't know what to loop =?

[Stag.S]

A true bubble loop would be a bubble pop in the air that allows you to land, set up a 241S and have it hit the character on his way down, jump jHS, release homing spear, bubble, pop, land. Rinse and repeat. It's pretty situational, and it takes a lot of readjusting, sometimes the jHS pops the bubble, sometimes the spear, or so on, so the best thing to do is either one repetition, or just go into an air combo after the first bubble pop.

Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozHeym5p4Aw&feature=related

[Tage*Proto]

Does iad 2s, hs, land, dash 5s, 6p, 421s(hold) not combo on like half the cast? Cant get it on like, axl, anji, slayer, sol, ky...

[Nehle]

Yea, you need fish to help you lift heavies ('cept Pot) and several medium.

[Tage*Proto]

Ah thanks. So what's a substitute combo then? Or is it easier and more practical to just go for a typical b&b into kd?

[excelence]

i didn't watch video/experiment much, the only practical Fish lift up help air pike combos that i know comes from corner oki setup that work on most of the cast hs~p fish>2k>laser>dash in 2k>2d>fish bite>iad j.d(1hit)>fish bite+bubble>jh+bubble pop>air pike>bubble combos it does decent damage but wouldn't score a KD

[Kurokun]

Release the pike a little after or exactly on summoning the bubble

Anyways, I sat a little in practice yesterday and I found two bubble loop corner setups that work on everybody, including Axl with the retard hitbox and robo who weighs a billion tons or something

1) HP Fish, IAD j.2S, laser, ad.2S j.H, land, bite (short dash) 6P > 421 > bubble loop The short dash is not always necessary

2) HP Fish, dash 2k, laser, dash 2k/c.S > 6P > 421 > bubble loop (Might not be worth it what with 2k proration, but bubble loops look awesome )

Yes, they are both okizeme setups. The reason both work is that the P bite fish will help you lift your opponent. I'm still working on followups after the first one if they block it, right now I'm thinking something like c.S 2S IAD j.2S > new mixup

These 2 setups Nehle listed work as well.

[excelence]

experimenting with dust combos into bubble combos D>iad 2s>bubble>j.s|421s>Bubble combos only work at corner tested against pot,sl,jo,rk,ch(LULZ),ax ... well i think it'll work against all medium with big hit boxes for other D>[8]jh>jh>bubble>j.s|j.s,j.s,jd it does almost the same ammount of damage as above with less effort (;-_-)>

[ilikeusingdizzy]

thanks for the bubble loops nehle