GenoWhirl Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Originally written by Bohemian Polka: Normals 2A- Faster startup 5A- Faster startup 6A NERF: Slower recovery, more narrow hit box, less stun on CH 2B NERF: Prorates more 4B CHANGE: Takes off one guard primer. 5B- Same 6B NERF: Much shorter hitstun on CH, does not normal cancel 2C BUFF: Faster start up, wider hitbox. Takes off one guard primer. 3C NERF: Hard to combo from 3C9D. Certain links no longer work 3C9D->6C. Slower recovery. 5C- Fatal Counter 5C C BUFF?: Wall bounces when opponent is in the air. Can loop wall bounces. Takes off one guard primer. 6C BUFF: Height requirement removed. 6C -> j2C is maybe possible? Drive- BUFF: Charges up faster if Rachel has two or more wind stock. NERF/CHANGE: For some reason charges up faster if she has no wind vs. when she has one stock. jA NERF: Not an overhead, hitbox changed? jB- Same jC BUFF: Hits some crouching opponents now. Can link to BBL. NERF: A little less hitstun. j2C NERF: Cannot cancel on block. Can cancel into specials on hit. Can cancel into specials and 2C on landing. Cannot jump cancel. Punishable on hit. CHANGE: Level 2 and 3 take off one guard primer. Level 3 has Fatal Counter properties mid-combo Specials Tiny Lobelia BUFF: A,B, and C Lobelia have shorter recovery. Longer CH hitstun. NERF: Less hit stun. Rod is not guaranteed when Rachel is hit. CHANGE/NERF?: Bounces off of projectiles. Seeds become active for Sword Iris on bounce. Sword Iris BUFF: Can be used in mid-air. Seed no longer has to be in the ground to activate. CHANGE: Command is now 214C NERF: Slightly less hitstun Impish Gypshophilia NERF: Slower startup. Less hit stun. Less block stun. Less active frames. Not guaranteed while winded. Shorter flying distance. Disappears after a certain amount of time. BUFF: Can be winded any number of times. George XIII BUFF/CHANGE?: Does not jump, but can be moved with wind. Can activate while being winded. Can only be winded towards the opponent. Has a cool down meter after activation. NERF: Prorates damage to hell. Distortion Drive Baden Baden Lily NERF: Does shit damage overall. Lily(body) 320×6 〔1295(6HIT)〕 Lily(rod) 560×4 〔1586(4HIT)] BUFF: Activation time is faster. Takes off guard primers depending on how many poles + body hit. Tempest Dahlia Command is 632146B. Can be used in the air. Can combo into itself. Has very little invincibility, but projectiles don't disappear if Rachel gets hit. Slow and easy to block. Safe on block. Throws out different things depending on how much wind Rachel has left. -4 winds (2200 dmg) two cows, giant pumpkin, King George (George shocks on hit and causes a bounce that can't be recovered from until landing). Takes off 2 guard primers -3 winds (1800 dmg) two bats, two cow, giant pumpkin Takes off 1 guard primer -2 winds (1600 dmg) four bats, cow -1 wind (1400 dmg) five bats, minimal stun Useful to punish airdashers, can combo with 3 and 4 Wind Tempest Dahlia Astral Heat Clownish Calendula- Same Moves that take off guard primer: -Second hit of 5cc -Cat Chair -4b -Lv 2/3 J.2c -Baden Baden Lily -Tempest Dahlia And taken from Spark's thread, here we have Rachel's proration data: Black = Same. Red = Worse. Blue = Better. Note: Things may be off by +1/-1 percent because of rounding. I will finish the rest of the proration data on the supers later. Move.......|Damage|Initial Proration|General Proration|Note: 5A...........|200*2..|80%..............|82%.................| 5B...........|400......|100%............|89%.................| 5C(1st)....|450......|100%............|85%.................| 5C(2nd)....|550......|100%...........|85%.................|!! 50% Same Move Proration !! 6A...........|520......|85%.............|89%.................| 6B...........|540......|86%.............|89%.................| 6C...........|234*n...|85%............|98%..................|89% Scaling applied to each hit after the first. Also possible 98% same move proration 2A...........|150......|85%............|82%..................| 2B...........|360......|70%............|84%..................| 2C...........|700......|80%............|89%..................| j.A...........|300......|90%............|84%..................| j.B...........|360......|80%............|86%..................| j.C...........|500......|90%............|80%..................| 4B...........|600......|90%............|89%..................| 3C...........|220*n...|70%............|90%.................| j.2C(LV1)..|800......|80%............|94%..................| j.2C(LV2)..|1200....|100%...........|94%..................| j.2C(LV3)..|2000....|100%...........|94%..................| 5BC..........|1000...|100%...........|70%..................|* 4BC..........|1000...|100%...........|70%..................|* j.BC..........|1050...|100%...........|70%..................|* 236A.........|450....|80%.............|92%..................| 236B.........|550....|80%.............|92%..................| 236C.........|550....|80%.............|92%..................| j.236A.......|550....|80%.............|92%..................|* j.236B.......|550....|80%.............|92%..................| j.236C.......|550....|80%.............|92%..................| Pumpkin.....|300....|80%.............|86%..................| Frog..........|100*8|84%.............|86%..................|*98% Scaling applied to each hit after the first Sword Iris..|800....|82%.............|84%..................| BBL...........|320x6.|81%.............| 84%..................|* // Still need to double check initial proration BBL(Rod)....|560x4.|..incomplete..|..incomplete........|* Cow..........|506....|..incomplete..|..incomplete........|* Big Pumpkin |836....|..incomplete..|..incomplete........|* King George |1320..|70%.............|90%..................|* Bat...........|incomp|..incomplete..|..incomplete........|* *Moves I have not yet checked for repeat move proration Will be updated as new things are discovered
wuku Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 B & C Lobelia - Less Recovery BBL - takes off up to 4 guard primers depending on the number of poles TD - 4 winds version takes off 2 guard primers
choysauce Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 is bean sword iris anytime or only after hit? we should probably note that hazama and tsubaki are otg 2b 5b characters everyone else is the same as in CT right?
killionaire Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Contradiction: Stated that A,B,C lobelias have less recovery, yet is also stated right below that B and C lobelias have more recovery.. Please correct it if you can. Thanks.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 i think B and C lobelias have more hit stun Is anyone willing to to start the Rachel CS guide for us all to add to with one master post? I'd be willng to, but i won't make threads for the hell of it unless it's warranted
GenoWhirl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Posted January 9, 2010 Is there any confirmation on the B and C lobelias having more hitstun?
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 soniti said they did i think i'm sure anyone who's played her would have said something about tighter timing since they have more recovery, so they probably do have more hit stun
Rhannmah Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 The more I compare them(CS vs CT), it seems to me that George jumps farther from Rachel's hands when she summons him from the ground, can anyone confirm/deny?
Spirit Juice Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Loke tests said that B and C Lobelias had more recovery on them. It was never mentioned if that change remained in the game or stayed afterward; in other words, it's uncertain if they do have more recovery or less recovery (or maybe the recovery is unchanged and the cannon does more hit stun!) until frame data comes out.
choysauce Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 i would go with the vote saying that lobelias have MORE hitstun. it feels easier to hit confirm the fullscreen B/C lobelias into BBL
GenoWhirl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Posted January 9, 2010 Maybe that's why 5bcdc B lobelia dash 6a BBL seems easier to do
Kuuhaku Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Couldn't all of this stayed in the other thread? I don't think there was anything in my post warranting a new thread. I was waiting for Soniti to post it over the outdated loketest information, but obviously he's too busy dying. Either way, from what I saw last night, Pumpkin does go away even if you IB... at least, when it's active. I have no idea about BIB though. In Tempest Dahlia, King Pumpkin and King George both take off one guard primer. Tempest Dahlia also hits behind Rachel. So if they IAD over her during start up, they'll still get hit if they're not blocking. King George and King Pumpkin can both be air comboed off of. King George does a delayed shock hit and King Pumpkin knocks the opponent into the air, giving you enough time to literally run up and 5B air combo. BBL takes off one guard primer if it's just Rachel and an additional guard primer for each rod. So you can do guard crush setups, just the damage makes you want to cry for all that hard work. I think I forgot to edit this when I went over last time, but 5C is a fatal counter. I tried out Lobelia and I actually have no idea on the recovery aside from A being shorter. I could still just dash forward and fork wuku for random full screen lobelia. So, I think we should hold off on that information until the frame data comes out. TD is a decent ground combo ender if you have 3-4 winds. For some reason, I had a hard time getting it to combo when it was just one wind. I'll try it out in the air next time I get a chance. Mostly when I play I'm trying to not get run over. 4B 2B is such a shitty mixup. Everyone can see it coming. j2C cancel into 236A is safe on hit though. Just you can't really do much after the 236A unless you already had pumpkin out.
Kuuhaku Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Yes. It's a forced fatal counter. So you can even fatal counter during a combo. I believe only level 3 does that though.
killionaire Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Honestly, the fact that this is all in one thread makes it easier to find without needing to lurk through 100 pages of pure despair.. I don't mind that it has been provided with convenience in mind.
GenoWhirl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Posted January 9, 2010 also if you ever manage to land the j.2c -> 236A Lobelia, can't you go like IMMEDIATE SOODO AIRISU and try to combo? too much recovery?
zdravkelja Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Can someone check if there is more moves with forced fatal counter, on lv3, maybe lv2? Fatal counter gives positive proration, am I rigth?
killionaire Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Can someone check if there is more moves with forced fatal counter, on lv3, maybe lv2? Fatal counter gives positive proration, am I rigth? It is unclear whether Fatal counters allow for positive proration.
Kuuhaku Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 No, there's no positive proration. Simply less proration. Rachel has no other moves that are forced fatal counter. 4B is not a fatal counter. Her only fatal counters are 5C and level 2 and 3 j2C.
GenoWhirl Posted January 10, 2010 Author Posted January 10, 2010 Hmm, so fatal counter is not applied to all guard breaking moves?
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Hmm, so fatal counter is not applied to all guard breaking moves? no some moves that gaurd break dont fatal counter and some fatal counter moves dont guard break, there are however moves that do both ie, her j2C and 5C
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