Dacidbro Posted February 17, 2010 Posted February 17, 2010 Gonna kick these off the ground, no time to keep waiting Will update to look more professional later, when there's more info to throw around and I have time to waste with the cosmetics. The most notable aspect of this matchup to note is that unless you're in the corner, if you find yourself right next to Tager, 9/10 times you should BACKDASH, right away. All of Tager's true mixup is only viable at point blank range, but it's devastating. A few examples; 5050 game between 2B and 360, both 3k+ ending on oki 5050 game between collider and 360, both 3k+ ending on oki 5050 game between 3C and 360, both ending on oki 5050 game between all of the above and 720, one removing half your healthbar, both ending on oki Literally none of that is viable unless you're nearly touching him, but he can force that situation on your wakeup easily. So, on your wakeup, don't think, just backdash. If you're playing a Tager intelligent enough to 6A your backdash, or the tager knows how to 720 your backdash, life gets much harder. Will add more to this later, but I do need help with this matchup. Mike is killing me. ~~~ 3/30/10 update I spent a bunch of time with Tager's frame data, helped me conceptualize how to get out of Tager mix much better. ~ Tager/startup/blockstun (non-gatlingable moves posted as static difference) 5A/7/9 5B/10/11 LOW 5C/15/15 BD PUNISH 5D/23/25 2A/8/11 2B/11/14 2C/15/17 3C/14/-8 LOW (On block; standard block in range, 5A) (On block; IB or far away, 5B) 2D/26/-1 (Grounded block: Always instant block 5A; -1 - 5 = 6, 5A = 5, free) (Aerial block: IB Dnails is safest bet, All else is being mixed up) 6A/21/10 BD PUNISH 6B/24/17 MID INVULN OVERHEAD 6C/28/17 TELEGRAPHED OVERHEAD (Guard point or super it) 4D/13/+-0 (On block; IB 5A is FREE! (But a 1 frame punish)) (On block; On regular block, TK Dnails or ashura super is a good choice) ASledge/19/19 (On block; IB dnails with perfect timing is free; if Tager gatlings to A command grab you're still safe) (On block; With no IB, recommend jump backwards and option select block the sledge follow or late Dnails to beat ACollider and AGrab) BSledge/35/18 (Ideally, guard point or super it, extremely telegraphed) (On block; IB jump Dnails > 5A) (On block; You're SCREWED. Honestly though this is a worst case scenario: Backdash is often good, but if read you die. Dnails is good, but if sledged you die. 5A is good, but if frame advantage'd by his 5A you're in gadget finger, meaning you took damage and ending in the same spot. Consider a reversal super?) (Sidenote Aerials give no static difference, so no honest frame data concerning block stun can be derived. Sorry!) Weak Aerials (jA, jB with IB) (On block; dependant on height, you might be able to 5A or Dnails?) Strong Aerials excepting j2C (On block; Keep blocking but pay attention, you aren't going anywhere) (On block; Theoretically, you could try to reversal super predicting his ground normal) (AVOID THIS SITUATION LIKE THE PLAGUE; INTELLIGENT GPOINT AND BD) j2C MOST COMMONLY CALLS OUT GUARD POINT (If you get punished, rethink your aerial denial game) (On block; IB it, punish with 5A (5B is height dependant)) Tager's throws FWD/6 (!!) BACK/7 Air/6 (!!!!) (Also, his ground throws are denoted as ".4" block level, air throw as ".3", probably refers to tech time. I'm guessing Tager's are short) Command throws A/11-31 (INVINCIBLE (might be 3-11 (!!!)) B/6 (!!) 720/5 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ~ the TL:DR of this is if you know it's free, IB 5A, if you're unsure if you have enough time, but you got the IB, try TK Dnails. But really, thoroughly understanding all of his most used moves and their blockstun is going to be the only way to know for sure.
The_Grither_ Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 When tager does his basic bnb...after atomic collider some will smack you across the screen and try to tech grab u...what do I do when instead after the AC they jump, drive , AC ( just to pull me in) then start there mix up gadget whatever yada yada ...will back dash get me out of this situation ? Cuz it seems no matter what I do I get grabbed again
huey253 Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 tk d nails beat everything but jab and sledge if they are that bold, but your 6D,jD and possible 5D might be handy here too,
ShinsoBEAM Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 When tager does his basic bnb...after atomic collider some will smack you across the screen and try to tech grab u...what do I do when instead after the AC they jump, drive , AC ( just to pull me in) then start there mix up gadget whatever yada yada ...will back dash get me out of this situation ? Cuz it seems no matter what I do I get grabbed again Okay if you are talking about AC, fallover, drive, AC, the answer is just don't tech,just don't tech and you will be fine. AC, fallover, j.D is a bit scarier, but w/e. If you are talking about what do you do after getting pulled up by gadget, its a mixup, for bang I would recommend, 5A(Loses to 360/720, and 5A, beats other stuff*) , jumping forward(Loses to meaty/Physic collider, beats otherstuff) , backdashing(LOSES TO 720!!!, and some meaties/waiting, beats 360 and some other meaties), just blocking(loses to 360/720)
Leo7 Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 backdashing(LOSES TO 720!!!, and some meaties/waiting, beats 360 and some other meaties), just blocking(loses to 360/720) Also loses to 5C.
The_Grither_ Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 Okay if you are talking about AC, fallover, drive, AC, the answer is just don't tech,just don't tech and you will be fine. AC, fallover, j.D is a bit scarier, but w/e. If you are talking about what do you do after getting pulled up by gadget, its a mixup, for bang I would recommend, 5A(Loses to 360/720, and 5A, beats other stuff*) , jumping forward(Loses to meaty/Physic collider, beats otherstuff) , backdashing(LOSES TO 720!!!, and some meaties/waiting, beats 360 and some other meaties), just blocking(loses to 360/720) Yes the second one u said...AC fallout j.d...then it seems if I tech I get grabbed and if I don't I get pulled back in for more damage...my question is when he does his j.d is there anything I can do after tht hit to prevent any more damage or is the rest unavoidable ...the gadget finger part I'm ok with
Dacidbro Posted April 17, 2010 Author Posted April 17, 2010 You forgot Dnails, which is a forward jump that doesn't lose to collider.
rei-Scarred Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 This won't be viable online, but if you are fighting a Tager offline unless they do their 720 after gadget at the last possible second (and of course this means they have to do a really really fast 720) you can easily hear them start the 720 (on sticks hehe) and j.D it instead of backdashing. I did this to Matthias at Power Up and he got mad lol. Later though he did a really fast 720 at the last second and that was much harder to react to and he caught me backdashing. That said I backdash most of the time off of GF. 6A is Tager's best option against a backdashing Bang it pulls him in real good, but if you get Tager trying to 6A you off GF that massive 5A damage for you if you read him correctly the next time. There's not much else I can say on this matchup. Youd think with Bang's tier list rise, and Tager staying in the same place this match would be even easier than in CT, but it feels about the same.
Leo7 Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 Actually, a held 360B that's activated as soon as Gadget is done seems to catch Bang out of his backdash. I've done this a few times in matches, and have yet to test it fully. However, the jist of it is that Bang's grounded for the first few frames of his backdash (I don't know the exact numbers), and a held 360B after Gadget Finger is fast enough to catch him (the magnetism will keep him from moving). Edit: Also 360B, unlike 360A, autograbs (like 720), so if Bang hits 5A, I should get a throw counter. It covers both options. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUwbb_UrVk#t=1m50s
huey253 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 eh, this matchup doesn't seem too bad if you IB 5A through tager's blockstrings, atleast thats how i found major success in the matchup.
rei-Scarred Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 How to improve your yomi, protip #1 When you predict MTW wakeup: 5C daifunka Seriously I did this to LostSoul. 5C clashes MTW but daifunka comes out anyway and hits him. We both shat bricks. In the same match though I opened with 2D cause I knew he would open with 5C. Well he knew I knew that so he did 5C 214B 360B. More bricks were shat and I'm never opening with 2D against him ever again XD. The yomi in that match was so thick you could fuckin see it man! Oh and yeah now that I FINALLY have internet I'm pretty much the new best player on netplay get at me.
huey253 Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 cool beans you can be the best psn bang, but i'll have to remain the best on xbl
sergetrigger Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 There's this one thing I usually try to do against Tagers... That whole after their bnb, they would do an atomic collider and expect you to air tech. I'm sure you guys see where I'm going with this.. Late tech, still being affected by the magnetism and catching them with a command grab.
Dacidbro Posted September 10, 2010 Author Posted September 10, 2010 Been doing this for a while, it's a scrubby tager reset that doesn't have much air time in high level matches, because of what you just described being commonplace. Just don't tech in the air against tager unless you have accurately calculated his possibilitys; if he coliders badly, neutral tech hit the ground punish, otherwise, almost never. FRKZ makes this matchup free, lock the thread until patch hits. lol
mAc Chaos Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 There's this one thing I usually try to do against Tagers... That whole after their bnb, they would do an atomic collider and expect you to air tech. I'm sure you guys see where I'm going with this.. Late tech, still being affected by the magnetism and catching them with a command grab. That's a 720 tech trap too you know. He reels you in, you think AHA I GOT HIM and then -- 720.
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