BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[seyu]

makotos matchups with the mid tiers are to bad. oh and tager 45-55 sure>_>

[zeth07]

lol valkenhayn is probably A+ tier imo

he probably has a 6-4 with almost everybody in the cast.

EDIT: tao vs bang is even atm...

it seems like alot of bang's matches are just slightly better than they should be imo...

.5 difference, but its for more than a couple characters...

Agreed.

[Top_Cat]

i agree as well

[mAc Chaos]

Dang, looks like my post never appeared.

I'm a little concerned about the Rachel Haku matchup. I guess that slipped by me.

7-3 seems fishy. I know it's bad.

But that bad?

[ZONG_one]

Dang, looks like my post never appeared.

I'm a little concerned about the Rachel Haku matchup. I guess that slipped by me.

7-3 seems fishy. I know it's bad.

But that bad?

Lol, it's pretty fucking bad.

[Spirit Juice]

-All numbers on this chart are 100% correct.

lol EC. Stay fray.

On a serious note, wish we had Carl and Arakune's match ups revised. They shouldn't be lower than Ragna at all.

Don't see how Haku-men vs Rachel is 7-3, but oh well no one plays Rachel anyways.

Also, Valk is probably S tier anyways.

[farranpoison]

makotos matchups with the mid tiers are to bad. oh and tager 45-55 sure>_>

Makoto's mixups up close involve a lot of staggering or moves with a lot of startup. Tager can 360/720 through the gaps with ease.

Also her short range makes her have to brave the possibility of a 360/720 a lot, unlike other rushdown characters that have longer reach normals. The only good thing is that Makoto has Tager specific combos that hurt very, very bad. 45-55 seems like an accurate matchup.

[ZONG_one]

On a serious note, wish we had Carl and Arakune's match ups revised. They shouldn't be lower than Ragna at all.

STAY FREE.

Carl and Arakune matchups are 100% correct.

Also, Valk is probably S tier anyways.

Stay moderately inexpensive.

[seyu]

Makoto's mixups up close involve a lot of staggering or moves with a lot of startup. Tager can 360/720 through the gaps with ease.

Also her short range makes her have to brave the possibility of a 360/720 a lot, unlike other rushdown characters that have longer reach normals. The only good thing is that Makoto has Tager specific combos that hurt very, very bad. 45-55 seems like an accurate matchup.

if you play it safe he cant even get though your(sadly quite short) blockstrings with IB. if you reduce your blockstings to the minimum you dont give him more holes to attack then any other character(and in case of emergency you can AV C-version cancel out of it pretty safely). on the other hand 3C can avoid most of his good combo starters and fake his 2C out.

her air to air game is better and her dp protects her from most of tagers gimmicks.

gameplan against tager is keeping distance and play midgames too. you wont get him ith mixup anyway so you gotta make the first hit count and got for oki

Edited November 2, 2010 by seyu

[Zidane]

lol EC. Stay fray.

...Play you for your awards.

[farranpoison]

if you play it safe he cant even get though your(sadly quite short) blockstrings with IB. if you reduce your blockstings to the minimum you dont give him more holes to attack then any other character(and in case of emergency you can AV C-version cancel out of it pretty safely). on the other hand 3C can avoid most of his good combo starters and fake his 2C out.

her air to air game is better and her dp protects her from most of tagers gimmicks.

Reduce blockstrings to a minimum? Like what? End with a 5B or a single 5C? You can't jump out of those, and cancelling into 214A is begging to get thrown. 214B/C seems like a good idea at first, but it'll only work for a while until the Tager starts 5A'ing you out of startup.

Yes, her air to air game is better. But why the hell would you want to go air to air with Tager? Why would he? His good stuff is on the ground, so is yours. Your air to ground game sucks, so no jumping in to avoid throws. Tager only jumps to get closer or buffer stuff, he's not going to try to air attack you like Taokaka. Also, Makoto's DP sucks. It's no ID. Most Tagers will expect a mash out DP out of Tager's tech traps anyway, so you'll just get owned for your trouble.

[Alex073088]

i love the rachel match-up chart numbers. I knew arakune and hazama were higher then even espically arakune omg. hakumen maybe a bit eagerated. ^.^ im happy at this match-up chart.

[mAc Chaos]

Lol, it's pretty fucking bad.

Not that bad. :P

[Henaki]

im glad you guys changed the tager matchups to what they should be.

idk if that was my input but hey whatevs.

[seyu]

Reduce blockstrings to a minimum? Like what? End with a 5B or a single 5C? You can't jump out of those, and cancelling into 214A is begging to get thrown. 214B/C seems like a good idea at first, but it'll only work for a while until the Tager starts 5A'ing you out of startup.

Yes, her air to air game is better. But why the hell would you want to go air to air with Tager? Why would he? His good stuff is on the ground, so is yours. Your air to ground game sucks, so no jumping in to avoid throws. Tager only jumps to get closer or buffer stuff, he's not going to try to air attack you like Taokaka. Also, Makoto's DP sucks. It's no ID. Most Tagers will expect a mash out DP out of Tager's tech traps anyway, so you'll just get owned for your trouble.

no to like 2A>5B>6A>jc or what ever. i wrote av c-version not a or b and meant things like 2C(far of course) so you got enough time to cancel out during block stun.

id like to see a tager approach on the ground though. you can still jump in. jC is bad, but not unusable(and who would jump in with it anyway?) j2C is cool against him since even his 2C clashes with it and its jc-able.

lotsa tagers are going to use their j2C and your jB beats it and gets you high damage.

makotos damage is higher in general which gets neglected pretty fast lately.

i mean comet canon loop. 50 meter for free or oki from it and mindfuck with BBS

tech traps are a guessing game for both and they dont hold their own in mathup discussion anyway. thats why i only mentioned AV for getting out and not for mix/cross-up.

her DP fails as much as ID when its bated anyway.

[Alex073088]

im glad you guys changed the tager matchups to what they should be.

idk if that was my input but hey whatevs.

do u think that the rachel match-up is accurate? 6.5 tgaer favor. almost like last game where it was 7-3 rachels favor?

Edited November 2, 2010 by Alex073088

[farranpoison]

The fact is that Tager's options are slightly better than Makoto's options. That's why it's a 45-55 and not a 50-50. Sure, you can still beat Tagers, as well as the majority of her other matchups which are 45-55, but there's still no getting around the fact that a character's options are better than yours. Makoto's range hurts badly. The sole reason she's not like Tsubaki is that she has damage.

[Spirit Juice]

Carl and Arakune matchups are 100% correct.

Nope.avi

...Play you for your awards.

Sorry you don't deserve any of my awards because you don't meet any of the criteria for them.

[mAc Chaos]

The fact is that Tager's options are slightly better than Makoto's options. That's why it's a 45-55 and not a 50-50. Sure, you can still beat Tagers, as well as the majority of her other matchups which are 45-55, but there's still no getting around the fact that a character's options are better than yours. Makoto's range hurts badly. The sole reason she's not like Tsubaki is that she has damage.

Really? All I ever see are Makotos just running trains over Tager.

[Alex073088]

Really? All I ever see are Makotos just running trains over Tager.

it may just be american tagers. i honestly dont see hardly any tagers using him well in america anymore. And i never seen any makotos against tournament tagers.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, there aren't really any pro JP Makoto players out there to compare it to unlike usual.

[natearistata]

Makoto's blockstrings are stupid unsafe and easy as hell to 360/720 punish. Along with all of her approach options being pretty easy to beat.

Most of the Tager's you see are probably like I was about a month ago that get a spark bolt and shoot it off full screen every time, even though Makoto 3C's under it every time. <_<

[seyu]

Well, there aren't really any pro JP Makoto players out there to compare it to unlike usual.

ya i hate that. you can say anything, but it doesnt mean anything to people if no japanese player did it or somethin

Makoto's blockstrings are stupid unsafe and easy as hell to 360/720 punish. Along with all of her approach options being pretty easy to beat.

Most of the Tager's you see are probably like I was about a month ago that get a spark bolt and shoot it off full screen every time, even though Makoto 3C's under it every time. <_<

she has save strings that are just pretty short and thus not very useful, but still an option. also no makoto ould run straight up, or jump in like a dunce. she has her safe methids of approach too :P

Edited November 2, 2010 by seyu

[farranpoison]

Makoto's blockstrings are stupid unsafe and easy as hell to 360/720 punish. Along with all of her approach options being pretty easy to beat.

Most of the Tager's you see are probably like I was about a month ago that get a spark bolt and shoot it off full screen every time, even though Makoto 3C's under it every time. <_<

Pretty much this. The fact is though if you do somehow get a hit it, it's damage time. That and her BBS super is the sole reason why she isn't crap tier.

[seyu]

i didnt doubt that, but shes not as exposed to tager like tsubaki and noel are.