ZONG_one Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Vague animation are the key words to take from Dacid. It's not like trying to react to Bang's 5C or something similar, that has an obvious animation before hand. You can yomi it off of 2A/5A that seems delayed, but that's about all the warning you're going to get before it's out. Or maybe I'm just a fucking scrub or something.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 don't worry dacid BB:CS console is coming out on Xbox soon, we will settle it there. It's going to be even harder to react online. :P I'm just going to predict it and 2A mash my way out!!!
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Skye you're out of your fucking mind. Just saying. The average human reaction speed for even a BASIC action (IE click this one button on reaction to an obvious animation appearing) is .222 of a second, which translates to roughly 12 or so frames. Then you add in actually translating your opponent's mix up correctly AND reacting with the right reaction, and there is no way that only adds another 2f to the equation. There's a reason the command grab lands so often in Japan, it's ridiculously fast and powerful. And if you're trying to yomi it, I'll just extend my blockstring. 5A 2A 2A 5B 2B Dnails 5A 2A 2A 5B 2B Dnails 5A COMMAND GRAB (You: fffuuuckkkkkk)
Skye Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 3 50/50? Not likely. Rule of thumb says block low, react to overheads. Only here you need to keep an eye out for a command grab, that's only one 50/50 mixup. You address Bang's command/tick grabs same way you react to Tager's. Jump. It gains merit if you're dead set on blocking, which Bang often forces you to assume that mindset. And lol Dacidbro, or should I say "Saltypro".
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 You can't just fucking jump though. I make you crouch with the above blockstring. This tick grab is three thousand times better than anything Tager can do.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 But Skye, I'm pretty sure that Bang can 2A you to make sure you can't jump; if you try you'll get hit out of the startup frames and stay grounded, then he can grab you. I think.
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Bang can do a number of things about someone autopiloting jump, but the most basic and obvious is just continue the air tight blockstring.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Hm, I just thought of something. Wouldn't Haku's j.D beat Bang's command grab (since it would put him in the air and make it whiff)? And if you tried to go for a low, the low would whiff, and if you go for an overhead or normal attack it would get countered.
Skye Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 You can't just fucking jump though. I make you crouch with the above blockstring. It gains merit if you're dead set on blocking, which Bang often forces you to assume that mindset. I pointed that out already Saltypro, relax. My character only needs a backdash, or an IB backdash. Quit trolling.
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Chaos, you get stuck in block. You just get hit. Skye, most commonly when someone tries to IB backdash they get hit by 2A. But theoretically, you are right, a backdash is a good choice. But you'll never do it on reaction.
ZONG_one Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Hm, I just thought of something. Wouldn't Haku's j.D beat Bang's command grab (since it would put him in the air and make it whiff)? And if you tried to go for a low, the low would whiff, and if you go for an overhead or normal attack it would get countered. This would probably reset to very close range neutral, at best. Which is still in bangs favor. jD recovery sucks. I don't know about recovery of command grab, but it's not that slow. 5A > resume pressure would probably happen after that.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Dang. Looks like it's time to get back on Yomi Layer 9000. Actually, I'm gonna look at the frame data to make sure. I know his j.D has an 11 frame recovery, so I just have to see how much recovery Bang's command throw has. Also how much blockstun from 5A since I know all that increased I think.
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 This would probably reset to very close range neutral, at best. Which is still in bangs favor. jD recovery sucks. I don't know about recovery of command grab, but it's not that slow. 5A > resume pressure would probably happen after that. Actually, if he could get the jump, it would recover fast enough for him to jab me. Bang's command grab does have garbage horrible recovery.
ZONG_one Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Dang. Looks like it's time to get back on Yomi Layer 9000. It's hard to yomi bang, since he has so many options. But on Layer 9000, you just get free wins. So work to that level. Actually, if he could get the jump, it would recover fast enough for him to jab me. Bang's command grab does have garbage horrible recovery. Really? I must be scrub with Hakzmann, I would never think to try and punish that whiff when I came down. Good to know.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 There's no 5A info. :< THE MOST IMPORTANT MOVE http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/frameData/bang.html 2A doesn't look like it stuns for much at all though.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 bangs 2A is a -2. tagers 2b is a +5. bangs command grab is 13F tagers command grabs are respectfully: 360A 11F, 360B 6F. in other words, there is a fucking gap between your low poke to grab then the small gap tager leads you into. infact the only way out of tager is to hold up and pray he isn't gonna collider. now if you throw in D nail pressure it becomes a different issue entirely... I'll leave it like this, most of tagers pokes will still have you in command grab range compared to bangs who pushes you out. stop trolling dacid.
Skye Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Skye, most commonly when someone tries to IB backdash they get hit by 2A. But theoretically, you are right, a backdash is a good choice. But you'll never do it on reaction. Fair enough, guess I'll have to be dead set on avoiding the shit out of him, make him waste nails to close in on me, and zone like a bitch using the occasional 5a > 6b > IAD j6d > more zoning. I do know that Ara can Ib Bang's jaa and air grab him if he tries to do anything after that. :P
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Nope, that's the idea. For a command grab to be untechable, they had to be out of stun for 7 frames. Off a 2A, you just command grab almost immediately and you have perfect 7 frames. Off 5A you have to delay a little. Yeah you just don't fuck with CS ara in the air, without proper spacing.
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 bangs 2A is a -2. tagers 2b is a +5. bangs command grab is 13F tagers command grabs are respectfully: 360A 11F, 360B 6F. in other words, there is a fucking gap between your low poke to grab then the small gap tager leads you into. infact the only way out of tager is to hold up and pray he isn't gonna collider. now if you throw in D nail pressure it becomes a different issue entirely... I'll leave it like this, most of tagers pokes will still have you in command grab range compared to bangs who pushes you out. stop trolling dacid. Wow, from this post, I would think you don't even understand the game. Seriously. There's like three things stupid about this post and I want you to figure them out and tell me what they are.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 It says Haku's j.D startup is 1 frame and it lasts 9 frames, then it takes 11 to land / recover. If Bang's is 13 frames for startup and is active for 3 frames, so you should be in the air still. I guess if you're in an airtight blockstring that's not going to work though so it still comes down to predicting it. Also the recovery on Bang's command throw is a whopping 37 frames so if he whiffs it on your j.D I think you'd be able to punish him any way you want... That j.D startup is deceptive, though. I think that only applies to when you're already in the air. If you're just on the ground, and hit up + D, then he has to rise up a bit first before the counter becomes active... it's not active on the first frame. It still puts him in the air right away though. I can't really tell until the game comes out and I can go in training mode to test everything out.
Dacidbro Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Mac, more importantly, jumps are 4 frames for hakumen. You need a 4 frame window just to get off the ground.
mAc Chaos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Ah, right. Damn. I need to just set some Bang blockstrings in training mode and mash D in different directions and see what happens. :P If there's any holes I'll find them!!!
Skye Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Wow, from this post, I would think you don't even understand the game. Seriously. There's like three things stupid about this post and I want you to figure them out and tell me what they are. Starting to sound like Henaki.
Recommended Posts