Dacidbro Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I doubt Jin is as strong as Lambda or Hazama. Most of his pressure is beaten by intelligent reaction DP or option select grab tech/barrier. After that, he has difficulty doing much. Hazama and Lambda don't have that problem and also have strong zoning games. Past that, their damage is not reliant on corners.
soujiro seta Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Japan has this thing where Execution doesn't factor into tiers, just solid gameplay of them goes into it. Like in MvC2 Iron-Man is actually in God Tier because if he's out there after a kill, the other team automatically loses if you have perfect execution. I think the Japanese actually see Carl in S over Ragna. S tier: Litchi, Bang, Arakune A tier: Carl, Ragna, Hakumen, Hazama B tier: Lambda, Taokaka, Jin, Tager, Noel C tier: Tsubaki, Rachel My own tier list, based on experience and videos of Japanese matches, its of probably, but i still say its more accurate than the page one list. Lol, people give carl way too much credit. He's not as good, overall, as most people think he is. He is solid, yes (just like lambda, jin, hazama, etc) but to put him in S tier or even close to S would be a huge overstatement imo. I think people always use the best case scenario with him: he gets you sandwiched and resets you to death. So they automatically say "Wow so good, he must be S tier".....except that's not how it works.
A.X.I.S. Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 why the hell does this chart say tager is even with noel? any noel mainer wanna talk about this? also I brought this up months ago but I wanna hear about tager vs tao and your thoughts on it.
Halcyone3 Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 why the hell does this chart say tager is even with noel? any noel mainer wanna talk about this? also I brought this up months ago but I wanna hear about tager vs tao and your thoughts on it. tager? even with noel? bs, we all know tager is very free for noel. 5D dat sledge srsly though, no, not even x.x
mundus Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 tager? even with noel? bs, we all know tager is very free for noel. 5D dat sledge srsly though, no, not even x.x Pretty sure Tager has at least 6-4 in favor what are you on about? Not like any good Tager is gonna spam sledge mindlessly, 1 gadget finger and Noel is screwed. Lol, people give carl way too much credit. He's not as good, overall, as most people think he is. He is solid, yes (just like lambda, jin, hazama, etc) but to put him in S tier or even close to S would be a huge overstatement imo. I think people always use the best case scenario with him: he gets you sandwiched and resets you to death. So they automatically say "Wow so good, he must be S tier".....except that's not how it works. Every tier list i've seen of him he is A-tier, think we all can agree on that, i put him above Ragna cause i really don't think Ragna is as good as people give him credit for, he is the most played char, yet most Ragna matches i see without Kaqn in it, he usually loses.
DC Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Pretty sure Tager has at least 6-4 in favor what are you on about? Not like any good Tager is gonna spam sledge mindlessly, 1 gadget finger and Noel is screwed. He was joking. Tager x Noel is a terrible, terrible matchup. why the hell does this chart say tager is even with noel? any noel mainer wanna talk about this? also I brought this up months ago but I wanna hear about tager vs tao and your thoughts on it. I made a lengthy post about this a few weeks ago. Go back a few pages.
Halcyone3 Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 He was joking. Tager x Noel is a terrible, terrible matchup. i was, sorry if my format didnt scream "SARCASM" like i wanted it to.
Shugotenshi Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 i was, sorry if my format didnt scream "SARCASM" like i wanted it to. I definitely knew there was sarcasm
ZONG_one Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 I definitely knew there was sarcasm Sure, it's a shitty matchup... But you're using SuPEr GaLiLeO fUN TimE trolling scrubs at Acho as video reference. lol. Use a video with high level noel for god's sake. D:
Shugotenshi Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 But then it wouldn't be funny D: It's Trolling for a reason! >< I'll try to find one tho maybe
Skye Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 I wanna know what makes Arakune v Ragna "slight disadvantage", I feel 6:4 favoring Ragna.
mundus Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 ^ Ragna's approach is his biggest problem, he pretty much has to eat at least 1 cloud to get close. When he is cursed the round is over.
Leonil_Requiem Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 S - Bang Litchi A - Hakumen Arakune Hazama A- - Ragna Taokaka Carl B - Lambda Jin Noel C - Tager Tsubaki Rachel In accordance with Leonil_Requiem (Leonil) and Xill (Seon Panther) We are still debating Mu's placement due to lack of "best case scenario" evidence.
mundus Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 ^ Isn't D and E tier unplayable? Since i don't think any character is unplayable, not even Rachel.
DC Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 In accordance with Leonil_Requiem (Leonil) and Xill (Seon Panther). Sounds legit. Sure, it's a shitty matchup... But you're using SuPEr GaLiLeO fUN TimE trolling scrubs at Acho as video reference. lol. Use a video with high level noel for god's sake. D: That's a pretty accurate depiction of what it's like, though.
Mumm-Ra Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 ^ Ragna's approach is his biggest problem, he pretty much has to eat at least 1 cloud to get close. When he is cursed the round is over. Ragna's approach is his biggest problem? Surely you jest. Arakune can't go around throwing clouds mindlessly around Ragna, an intelligent Ragna can punish a cloud from any height, and after that its Arakune's doom, no reliable reversals without 50% heat. When he's cursed the round is over? You could say that for any character, even Lambda, and that doesn't make the matchup good for Arakune.
FunkyP Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 I love how people believe that Gadget Finger is the end all be all that Tager has. Its not like a Noel player has ever guess right in the history of that matchup.
XDest Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 S - Bang Litchi A - Ragna Hakumen Arakune B - Taokaka Lambda Carl Hazama C+ - MAKOTO C - Noel Jin D+ - Tager D- -Tsubaki E - Rachel Personal opinions time, yay! S+: Litchi S: Bang A+: Arakune, Carl A: Ragna, Hakumen, Taokaka B: Hazama, Makoto, Lambda, Jin, Mu C: Tager, Noel D: Tsubaki, Rachel I am not credible at all either, haha
Dacidbro Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 It's too early to tier list makoto yet, and your list exaggerates the bad character's disadvantages, Leonil.
mundus Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 Ragna's approach is his biggest problem? Surely you jest. Arakune can't go around throwing clouds mindlessly around Ragna, an intelligent Ragna can punish a cloud from any height, and after that its Arakune's doom, no reliable reversals without 50% heat. When he's cursed the round is over? You could say that for any character, even Lambda, and that doesn't make the matchup good for Arakune. Yeah thats true, but characters like Taokaka, Hazama, Lambda or even Rachel is harder to curse than Ragna. Not saying Arakune walks over Ragna or anything just saying that he pretty much has to eat at least one cloud to get in wheres other characters have safer approaches.
Ronove Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 The problem of "personal" tier lists is that they are obviously too influenced by one's personal matchup experience. Like in XDest's personal tier list Tsubaki is in D tier, and it's most likely due to the fact that Tao is most likely one of her worst matchups so it obviously feels like "Tsubaki is really bad". I'm not implying that she's amazingly good either, just saying that it's pretty obvious that one's own opinion of other characters is naturally dictated by simple matchup experience which may actually be kind of confusing since tier lists are supposed to evaluate a character's strenght overall. Really, we may discuss matchups and all but for tier lists I'd personally wait for japanese pros to express their opinion and formulate a new general tier list after this year's Tougeki and once the new updated coin-op version is out.
Halcyone3 Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 am i the only 1 that finds it hillarious how every includes makoto in their tier list and not mu who's been out for quite a bit more time?
mundus Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 am i the only 1 that finds it hillarious how every includes makoto in their tier list and not mu who's been out for quite a bit more time? Cause even though Mu has been out for much longer, you still fight Makoto more often?
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