Gundam vs. Gundam Next (plus)

[ShoMeYaMoves]

I searched for a thread, found none, and this is the result. Let's talk mains, your favorite ND combos, which gundams are bullshit, w/e. I main Speigal Gundam and the Tallgeese.

[DaiAndOh]

I searched for a thread, found none, and this is the result.

Let's talk mains, your favorite ND combos, which gundams are bullshit, w/e.

I main Speigal Gundam and the Tallgeese.

I don't even know who to main. This game is too amazing.

I've been using Sazabi, Nu, Destiny, V2, 00, Deathscythe. Can't wait for Extreme VS. as well with Crossbone!

[Arakune]

Burning Gundam, Deathscythe, Acguy and the one with the wheel are the most fun to play as imho. Quin Mantha and Psycho Gundam are fun too.

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Forgot to mention I also play a ton of Hyaku Shiki, it's a great suit. These past few weeks I've really been trying to get really good at ND combos and making everything safe with it, it's amazing how that one gameplay mechanic addition completely changes the game from GVG vanilla. Now you can custom combo with everyone as well as speeding up the game a ton, it's awesome. I just wish more people were into this game... I'm not usually into 3D fighting games but this game is very interesting and I'm always pleasantly surprised how much depth practically every Gundam in the game has, despite there being such a large cast.

[furix]

Any of you play this on ad-hoc party or xlink-kai? I like using Kotejina's suit and Haman's Qubeley.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Some rough tiers (arcade version, though PSP doesn't change much): 3000s: S+ - Turn A, Wing Zero, Qubeley S- Destiny A - everybody else B/C - Epyon, God, Strike Freedom, DX 2000s: S - Gundam, Deathscythe A - Heavyarms, Hyaku Shiki, Akatsuki B - everybody else C - Spiegal, Nobel, Shining, probably GP01Fb, Qubeley Mk. II 1000s: A - Ground Type, Zaku II, Zaku Kai B - everybody else C - NT-1 Alex, Qubeley Mk. II Arcadia posted some pros/cons for the suits that made top 8 for Premium Dogfights '09, which are more or less common sense if you know the game at all. Don't remember everything they said or didn't say, but the general idea was: Turn A: Pros- best movement in the game; fast, difficult to interrupt melee; Moonlight Butterfly damage output is ridiculous; tied for most HP Cons- none, really, but if you want to be nitpicky you can say its long range game isn't the absolute best Wing Zero: Pros- excellent firepower (damage + ammo/recharge); good boost performance; excels in 2v1 situations Cons- poor 1v1/1v2 ability (slow melee, main gun is harder to manage in defensive situations than a BR, etc.) Qubeley: Pros- high boost performance; good melee + funnel glitch; BR + funnel combination at range; Pressure (2B) Cons- relatively low HP Destiny: Pros- CSa is good; big melee; Wings of Light; top ranked assist Cons- No major complaints? Melee combos can take a while, BR ammo/reload is sub-par Gundam: Pros- CSa is ridiculous/broke; excellent firepower; excellent all-around performance (boost, HP, etc.) Cons- none Deathscythe: Pros- shield shot has ridiculous tracking; armor mode/stealth + good boost performance = good survivability, good at getting in; huge melee, very hard to get out of the way Cons- melee combos are slow Akatsuki: Pros- good BR ammo/reload; O.Aka CSa is good; S.Aka shield, DRAGOON, CSa are good Cons- none? Ground Type: Pros- huge red lock range in cannon mode + strong tracking on cannon shots = very good support MS Cons- 1000; low HP means death in 1-2 combos; running movement; very poor 1v1/1v2 against higher cost suits

[Blade]

So wait...is this game anything like Gundam Battle Assault 3?

[CrimsonDisaster]

So wait...is this game anything like Gundam Battle Assault 3?

no, it's like a simpler, 2v2 Virtua On.

A word on ND combos:

If you are consistently trying to put yourself into a position to use melee, or if you consistently find yourself in situations where you feel inclined to use melee as your first option, you are bad at this game. Yes, even if you are playing a "melee" suit.

That said, there are very few ND combos that are worthwhile. A large chunk of the cast just does something like 5B-B ND 5B-B-B or 4/6B-B ND 4/6B-B-B as their melee combo. More than 1 ND per combo will generally make your combo WEAKER rather than stronger, as well.

[Blade]

Any mention of Nataku aka Altron Custom?

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Some rough tiers (arcade version, though PSP doesn't change much):

3000s:

S+ - Turn A, Wing Zero, Qubeley

S- Destiny

A - everybody else

B/C - Epyon, God, Strike Freedom, DX

2000s:

S - Gundam, Deathscythe

A - Heavyarms, Hyaku Shiki, Akatsuki

B - everybody else

C - Spiegal, Nobel, Shining, probably GP01Fb, Qubeley Mk. II

1000s:

A - Ground Type, Zaku II, Zaku Kai

B - everybody else

C - NT-1 Alex, Qubeley Mk. II

Arcadia posted some pros/cons for the suits that made top 8 for Premium Dogfights '09, which are more or less common sense if you know the game at all. Don't remember everything they said or didn't say, but the general idea was:

Turn A:

Pros- best movement in the game; fast, difficult to interrupt melee; Moonlight Butterfly damage output is ridiculous; tied for most HP

Cons- none, really, but if you want to be nitpicky you can say its long range game isn't the absolute best

Wing Zero:

Pros- excellent firepower (damage + ammo/recharge); good boost performance; excels in 2v1 situations

Cons- poor 1v1/1v2 ability (slow melee, main gun is harder to manage in defensive situations than a BR, etc.)

Qubeley:

Pros- high boost performance; good melee + funnel glitch; BR + funnel combination at range; Pressure (2B)

Cons- relatively low HP

Destiny:

Pros- CSa is good; big melee; Wings of Light; top ranked assist

Cons- No major complaints? Melee combos can take a while, BR ammo/reload is sub-par

Gundam:

Pros- CSa is ridiculous/broke; excellent firepower; excellent all-around performance (boost, HP, etc.)

Cons- none

Deathscythe:

Pros- shield shot has ridiculous tracking; armor mode/stealth + good boost performance = good survivability, good at getting in; huge melee, very hard to get out of the way

Cons- melee combos are slow

Akatsuki:

Pros- good BR ammo/reload; O.Aka CSa is good; S.Aka shield, DRAGOON, CSa are good

Cons- none?

Ground Type:

Pros- huge red lock range in cannon mode + strong tracking on cannon shots = very good support MS

Cons- 1000; low HP means death in 1-2 combos; running movement; very poor 1v1/1v2 against higher cost suits

PSP nerfed Deathcythe big time, its only ranged attack is complete garbage now compared to arcade. (when I played arcade, it has crazy tracking while on psp it has almost none) Kind of makes Deathscythe a less fast and less hardhitting Epyon without it, especially since cloaked mode is basically worthless.

I agree with the rest except for Hyaku Shiki not being above Heavyarms or even being in S tier for the 2000s. It basically has everything, plus it has the auto 25% revive ability (which saves more matches than it has any right to). Do you remember what their reasoning for Heavyarms being so high was? (I trust Arcadia more than I trust my own limited knowledge.)

no, it's like a simpler, 2v2 Virtua On.

A word on ND combos:

If you are consistently trying to put yourself into a position to use melee, or if you consistently find yourself in situations where you feel inclined to use melee as your first option, you are bad at this game. Yes, even if you are playing a "melee" suit.

That said, there are very few ND combos that are worthwhile. A large chunk of the cast just does something like 5B-B ND 5B-B-B or 4/6B-B ND 4/6B-B-B as their melee combo. More than 1 ND per combo will generally make your combo WEAKER rather than stronger, as well.

Yeah, I agree on the ND combo front. The most practical ND combos are the basic A>ND>A>ND>A triple beam knockdown type ones that most of the cast can do. But I definitely think ND also makes melee much more feasible than in GVG, even if you're not actually going for the melee hit itself but only feinting a melee rush right into a ND back>A or to bait a block/counter. That said, the definite ranged emphasis of the game means I would never play Speigal instead of Tallgeese in a competitive match since melee is generally so damn unsafe lol and it's so much easier to play ND beam keepaway.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Melee is powerful, it just shouldn't be the centerpiece to your overall strategy. There's a reason why suits like Turn A, Deathscythe, Destiny, etc. put on a lot of pressure when they are coming at you.

Deathscythe is still ridiculous in the PSP version. The shield is still good, just not as good. There are very few things in NEXT that are scarier than a smart Deathscythe hounding you. Or that's what I've been told, since I'm the only good DS player at our arcade and have no fear of the random scrubs playing DS :V

I would say even with the nerf, DS is still one of the top class 2000s.

Heavyarms is in the longest red-lock range class, pressures very well from range, and has braindead landing punish ability. It fits in very well with a lot of 3000s, is great 2v1 or as the odd man out.

Hyaku Shiki is good, but the 100HP revive thing doesn't save many matches when the other team knows how to account for it. BR is good but the bazooka isn't anything great; mega particle cannon is good sometimes, but it's not as accessible as Gundam/Akatsuki CSa. Melee is nothing special either. When you look at what a suit adds to a team, Hyaku Shiki honestly doesn't offer anything to make it worth picking over Gundam/DS/Heavyarms/Akatsuki, other than the safety net of a revival that you shouldn't even need; therefore, it doesn't belong in the same class as those suits, imo.

It's like a B+ suit, along with Exia, Master, etc (other suits with strong individual attributes but relatively weaker contributions to a team). Too much nitpicking for my taste, it's essentially another 2000 that isn't as good as the top but can still win.

Here's the way I look at it: I was the Gundam in a tournament winning team (Gundam/Turn A) and died like a grand total of twice over the entire tournament; is our team improved or at least as good with Hyaku Shiki instead of Gundam? No, it's significantly weaker if anything.

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Fair enough, I'd certainly rather have a DS/Gundam on my team than a Hyaku for 2000s. Heavyarms is kind of iffy to me though, it has an incredible ranged game obviously but I've seen it get completely shut down by fancy ND using melee suits. e.g. even Epyon rapes Heavyarms for free since Heavyarms just doesn't have the mobility to avoid skillful and quick melee suit play even with copious NDing since they can just super armor or avoid anything Heavyarms can pull out quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong...I'd love to see some great Heavyarms play against those suits. Also wow, Gundam/Turn A team...I feel sorry for your opponents lol.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Fair enough, I'd certainly rather have a DS/Gundam on my team than a Hyaku for 2000s.

Heavyarms is kind of iffy to me though, it has an incredible ranged game obviously but I've seen it get completely shut down by fancy ND using melee suits. e.g. even Epyon rapes Heavyarms for free since Heavyarms just doesn't have the mobility to avoid skillful and quick melee suit play even with copious NDing since they can just super armor or avoid anything Heavyarms can pull out quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong...I'd love to see some great Heavyarms play against those suits.

Also wow, Gundam/Turn A team...I feel sorry for your opponents lol.

If it gets to a 1v1 situation where Heavyarms needs to survive against an aggressive player for a bit, Heavyarms has plenty of tools to get out of trouble. Its assist deals with a lot of cover fire that most suits use to get in, for one. Obviously, using the map helps a lot, too. It has decent boost time as long as you aren't constantly flying backwards, and it has the BC flip to change up its movement as well. Also you can abuse the fact that pretty much all melee attacks move in a straight line to the target, if they move at all- they are lining themselves up to get shot, provided you pull the trigger at the right time.

Plus, a simple sidestep/backdash will throw off all tracking so if you aren't still in a place where their move will hit, you can avoid stuff that way as well.

That said, obviously Heavyarms can't dance away from a persistent attacker forever. Mostly you just hope your teammate can come and help and try to hold out till then, at the very least.

Still, if Heavyarms is consistently getting caught in 1v1 situations, that team needs to improve their positioning/teamwork/communication/multitasking/etc. Especially if it's Epyon beating up on Heavyarms, there's very little reason for a team to lose to Epyon (and I say this as someone who plays and wins with Epyon).

[Blade]

Okay so, I'm starting to dig this game, but I don't know much about it as far as leveling up or stat boosting or team making works. So far I really like Zero EW Custom and Wufei's Altron Custom, as well as Exia, but they don't seem to take a beating very well when it comes to physical attacks and getting surrounded. I'm decent at Sniping with Zero even if my HUD says stuff is out of range, it usually isn't if I'm moving. I'd like to learn more about movelists and such as the way Gamefaqs writes stuff out it's hard to interpret inputs (and I play fighting games!).

[Reioumu]

I play F91, Ez8, and turnA

[AirMaster]

I play mostly V2, Kshatriya and the F-91.

[DaiAndOh]

Showmeyourmoves, do you plan to go to EVO? Would be interesting to do a 4 player game with 4 Bang mains :P.

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Yeah. I can bring my psp with GVGN+, I might be able to borrow my bro's one for EVO. Ideally there would be cabs but since that won't happen, if we just collectively bring 4 PSPs it would be badass. GVGN+ SIDE TOURNEY HYPE

[CrimsonDisaster]

lol if I can make it to Evo I would totally join a NEXT tournament

[Blade]

If you guys had a tourney what kind of rules would it have? I'm thinking about maining Wing Zero EW Custom, and subbing Nataku/Deathscythe/Exia.

[CrimsonDisaster]

The rules we use at UFO for tournaments are: - 300 second timer (I see infinite time in a lot of Japanese vids but we haven't had a time out at 300 seconds yet); infinite time is better just so you never have to deal with time out rulings - random stage - no same-MS teams - 2/3 games, winning team must keep same suits - double elim

[ShoMeYaMoves]

The rules we use at UFO for tournaments are:

- 300 second timer (I see infinite time in a lot of Japanese vids but we haven't had a time out at 300 seconds yet); infinite time is better just so you never have to deal with time out rulings

- random stage

- no same-MS teams

- 2/3 games, winning team must keep same suits

- double elim

Sounds perfect to me. GVGN timeout is dumb sometimes with 180 seconds and 300 should prevent that from occurring.

[Reioumu]

Showmeyourmoves, do you plan to go to EVO? Would be interesting to do a 4 player game with 4 Bang mains :P.

I'm going to EVO and bringing my PSP. Lets go side tourney!?

[Blade]

Hey guys, I hate to ask this, but aside from Gamefaqs, there aren't any reliable movelists that I can look at, and the one faq there isn't really written very well. Can you help?

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Hey guys, I hate to ask this, but aside from Gamefaqs, there aren't any reliable movelists that I can look at, and the one faq there isn't really written very well.

Can you help?

Which Gundam do you need help with?

I'm going to EVO and bringing my PSP. Lets go side tourney!?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS (even if it's only 4 people lol)