soujiro seta Posted May 4, 2010 Author Posted May 4, 2010 Volante is big, but you can probably push her back enough for it to not hit on start up. Seems like it has potential. I'm always for volante stuff. It's potential is GIGANTIC. The one with the 2nd vivace, I dunno. Too many vivaces are risky. I really hope it works Also if you don't mind, all those who have access to CS can you plz try out the stuff that has (NEEDS TESTING) next to it? Thanks.
ZONG_one Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 I really hope it works Also if you don't mind, all those who have access to CS can you plz try out the stuff that has (NEEDS TESTING) next to it? Thanks. I'll try. It's hard for me to test reset stuff. I'm always around somewhere that has CS available though. lol. I'll wait until I have someone to actually control the other character.
soujiro seta Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 lol, sorry guys, a couple vids were off a bit, and I just re-edited them Anyway i have a question? How come this works CORNER or MIDSTAGE (breakdown someone’s defense) --NOC 3C combo starter, seems to be unblockable 2A 5B 2B 2]D[ 3C > combo VID VID 5A 5B 2B 2]D[ 3C > combo VID How come it's unblockable? It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
Kyle Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 2]D[ can only be blocked when the opponent is standing. 3C can only be blocked when opponent is crouching. Opponent can not stand and crouch at the exact same time. Either they crouch block 3C and get hit by 2]D[ or they get hit by 3C and 2]D[ follows up regardless.
mAc Chaos Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 What if you counter :0 Also I thought I read somewhere that there aren't true unblockables in this game; that if you actually land two separate moves at the same time as long as they block one it would be fine. But if the timing is close enough then they'd have to guess which one comes first and that is what makes it almost unblockable.
soujiro seta Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 2]D[ can only be blocked when the opponent is standing. 3C can only be blocked when opponent is crouching. Opponent can not stand and crouch at the exact same time. Either they crouch block 3C and get hit by 2]D[ or they get hit by 3C and 2]D[ follows up regardless. I know, but they're crouching and they still got hit by 3C, that's what I don't understand. If they blocked 3C and 2D hit then that's understandable, but they are still cr.blocking, and 3C hit? Does this have something to do with the game's mechanic, or they just stopped blocking 3C? But it looks like they were still blocking low and ended up getting hit by 3C anyway.
Kyle Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 They most likely were holding either 2 or 3. They possible f*'d up a reversal. Further Analysis: they all stood up.
Mascarpone Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 How fast does nirvana recover from 3C? It's terribly slow if i remember right is it not? Still, with the little 3C double vivace:a trick, what about instead of 5A or j2.c, 6A -> Air combo? is there enough time for nirvana to recover and set up an 8D to continue into air BnB? Because unless they jump up and barrier block they will have to eat 6A and even if they block 6A you still get air pressure correct? the idea really is dependent on 3C recovery tho otherwise you just end up tossing them away from you and it's not really much of a great reset.
ZONG_one Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 *3D, you mean. (Everyone does that lol.) 3D is pretty bad. I wouldn't rely on it for technical stuff. The only great thing about it is 5B > 2B > 6B > j.2C > 3D > late airdash j.B > j.C corner reset. Midscreen mixup isn't so great. It works sometimes, but bad to rely on. Oh, and the Tager only j.B > 3D > late j.C reset. That's gdlk.
soujiro seta Posted June 5, 2010 Author Posted June 5, 2010 I found a couple more things, will try and post it tomorrow .
ZONG_one Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 I found a couple more things, will try and post it tomorrow . Looking forward to it, as always.
soujiro seta Posted June 26, 2010 Author Posted June 26, 2010 PART 1 PART 2 PART 3 RESETS -NOC 5B 6B 6D 6C 2A 5A 2A 5B 2D 2B 3C -> combo (It doesn’t look like there is a slight delay at all. I’m guessing the push back from 2A 5A 2A is what causes the reset. By the time you do 3C your opponent would have been pushed back so much that it won’t combo, causing the reset.) VID -NOC 5B 2B 5C 6D (slight delay) IAD j.2C allecan -> combo -NOC (NEEDS TESTING) 5B 2B 5C 6D IAD j.2C allecan (make it combo) 5B 6B (all the while holding D so nirvana moves forward as you combo) J.B J.C J.B 5B 6B 6D vivaceA (j.2C allecan)/2A/tick throw/etc -> combo VID (The vid doesn’t show it, but it should work.) -NOC Purposely drop a 2D loop and vivace behind nirvana. Try and catch your opponent with fuoco, 41236D, on wakeup Opponents wakeup – 41236D IAD j.B 2A IAD j.2C allecan 5B 2B 5C 6D -> combo VID -Rhapsody Reset, 50 heat required (NEEDS TESTING) Get 9 hits in before inputting Rhapsody of memories. Dash in and charge 6C until a certain point. Immediately charge 6C again, this time to make it an unblockable. Your opponent will recover just in time to block the last hit of rhapsody, but 6C will also be fully charged right after the last hit of rhapsody connects. (The vid doesn’t show it but it gives a basic idea. The second 6C is the vid is not fully charged btw. The whole point is to start the second 6C from a point where it will become unblockable right after the last hit of rhapsody. This can be done by using the combo counter as a guage. Maybe a 6C started from a combo count of 17 will yield that? I don’t know, but it’ll need to be tested) VID 9 hits combo then do rhapsody – 66 6C until combo count of (__) – 6C fully charged starting at combo count of (___) -> combo (if your opponent doesn’t block the last hit of rhapsody they'll be sent flying and fully charged 6C will whiff, but you might recover in time to 5B j.B -> combo. I’m not sure yet) -NOC 5B 6B 4D vivaceA vivaceA (do the second vivaceA as nirvana swings her arm for the second hit) 66 5C 7 j.B 7]D[ Allegretto -> combo VID (Lol, yes that's me in the vid, thanks to mAc Chaos for the upload. In an attempt to save face Plz excuse my scrubby play gais I was bad that day) Different Variations - 5B 6B 4D vivaceB (second hit of 4D connects) vivaceB 5B j.B 8D j.C -> combo - 5B 6B 4D vivaceA 66 66 5C 7 j.B 7]D[ j.C vivaceA -> combo (If you’re in the corner, Wall-CON, the second vivaceA isn’t needed) VID -NOC During a ground loop – 6C (slight delay) IAD j.2C allecan -> combo VID -NOC During a ground loop: 5B 6B 6D 6C 2A 5A 2A 2]D[ 5B 2B vivaceB 66 5B/C 7 j.B 7]D[ j.C vivaceA -> combo VID CORNER RESETS -Wall-OCN, Opponent needs to tech, 50 heat required End a corner combo with gear super. Right when the gear ends, do j.A. This gives them the ability to tech before they hit the ground, if they want to. After that do 8D. If they tech, regardless of how, they get by 8D for a free combo. Remember to leave some space between nirvana and the wall so if they forward tech they’ll still get hit and be in the corner for a juicy combo. Use gear super as combo ender -> j.A when gear ends-> 8D -> combo VID -Wall-CON 5B 5C 6D 7 j.44 j.C 5B -> combo (I accidentally did this in a match, the j.C version, but unfortunately no capture device to show it. j.2C allecan, the one in the video, should work on the wider characters (i'm not sure), but j.C has a better horizontal hitbox, making it more universal so to speak.) VID -Wall-OCN ***EDIT**** During a ground corner loop 5B 6B 6D j.C 5A 6C -> combo VID Diff Var. 5B 6B 6D vivaceA 2A IAD j.2C allecan -> combo Tick throw version 5B 6B 6D vivaceA 5A 2A 6B~C -> combo STRATEGIES -Get the most out of an anti air Counter Hit 6A with nirvana close behind you CH 6A IAD j.2C 8D Allegretto -> combo VID -Opponents not falling for j.B 5B IAD j.2C allecan anymore and wanna mix it up We carl mains sometimes forget to use tricks we learned in the beginning. If nirvana is behind you and you want to dash in and cross up your opponent, you don’t always have to use 5B/2A/5A/empty jump IAD j.2C allecan. We sometimes forget just how useful and safe vivace is as a cross up tool when nirvana is backing us up. (Atleast I do at times) When you IAD j.B you can follow up with 2A 5A 5B 6B 6D vivaceA, or IAD j.B 6D vivace A. The good thing about the second one is if your opponent tries to CH/DP/FC you they’ll most likely get CH by 6D for a free combo, and it also works on airborne opponents as well. (shown in the vid below) VID - Counter hit j.2C with opponent in the air and nirvana close by Air CH j.2C 8D j.B -> combo VID (the j.B is optional depending on how close nirvana is. If she is too close, they might get hit by 8D before you do j.B, and in this case j.B will ruin the chance for a combo.) -Catching roll tech on opponents wakeup 2D 5C VID (This is actually better than 3C 2D cause if can be hard to time 3C correctly. Although 3C 2D is more damaging) -Pressuring opponents neutral tech on wakeup Volante Great pressure tool on opponents neutral wakeup especially when facing DP characters. If they DP after a neutral tech on wakeup and you block, they’ll get hit by volante for a free combo VID 1 VID 2 -Counter Hit 623D with opponent in the air and carl behind nirvana Depending on your distance from nirvana, you might need to dash forward on the ground during CH brio to bring carl within range, and in this case you might not need to super jump at all, but rather just IAD instead 1st Version CH 623D super jump sj.66 sj.B. Land j.B Allegretto 8D -> combo Opponents needs to back/forward tech. if they neutral in the air they might not get hit cause of the invincibility to attacks on neutral tech (plz correct me if I’m wrong) VID 2nd Verson CH 623D super jump sj.66 j.2C 8D allegretto -> combo -Get the best off FC j.B at a “good height”, above nirvana’s head, with nirvana slightly behind you. FC j.B (above nirvana’s head) Land 66 5B j.B 8D allegretto -> combo VID -NOC, opponent gets hit by Brio, 623D, while trying to jump out 623D j.B allegretto 8D -> combo VID -Get the best out of an airthrow PART 2 j.B+C 22D 5C volante vivaceA -> combo VID -Get the best out of a forward ground throw when nirvana isn’t close B+C 22D vivaceA instant IAD j.2C 2D j.C -> combo VID Diff Var. I had trouble consistently getting the instant IAD j.2C. Instant IAD j.2C meaning the lowest distance traveled during the IAD before you j.2C. Characters with smaller horizontal hitboxes, noel/litchi/carl, require you to use instant IAD j.2C allecans most of the time or you’ll whiff. Same case here except you need and instant IAD j.2C for ALL CHARACTERS or j.C will whiff. If you’re having trouble consistently getting the instant IAD j.2C, then you can make it easier on yourself by doing -B+C 22D vivaceA 7 j.2C 2D j.C -> combo (the jump, 7, has to be slight. This version is definitely easier) -Get the best out a back throw when nirvana isn’t close 4B+C 22D vivaceA 5C 7 j.B 7D Allegretto -> combo ----4D is on its way to becoming godly --4D is being used in combos to lessen the double proration on nirvana’s moves, so learn them 4D combos --4D used on your opponents wakeup Time after time most of us only use or see 3D/3C-2D being used on wakeup. Thing is 3D isn’t that great, and 3C-2D can be hard to time correctly consistently. Here comes 4D to the rescue. -4D beats back/forward teching *Corner Opponent attempts to techs back/forward, 4D, 4D hits 5C j.B Allegretto 8D -> combo VID *Midstage NOC (NEEDS TESTING - combo might not work) Opponent attempts to techs back/forward, 4D, 4D hits, walk back a bit, 66 5B 7 j.B 7]D[ Allegretto -> combo (Similar to this VID, but instead the 4D is done on wakeup.) -4D on neutral tech *Midstage Opponent attempts to neutral tech, 4D, (several things could happen) Scenario 1 The first low hit might whiff, depending on when you do 4D, since they are invincible to hits on neutral tech for a couple frames, but they’ll have to block the second one. Vivace B before the second hit to cross them up. Then follow up with 66 66 5B/C 7 j.B 7]D[ j.C vivaceA -> combo (If you’re in the corner, Wall-CON, the second vivaceA isn’t needed) Similar to this VID Scenario 1A In the likely hood that your opponent actually blocks the cross up, 66 IAD j.2C allecan to test whether it was a fluke. Even if they block the j.2C allecan at least they’ll be in sandwich pressure. (Alternate: after dashing forward towards nirvana, depending on the distance from carl and your opponent, you might not even have to IAD j.2C allecan at all. Vivave A will put them back in sandwich pressure) Scenario 2 The first hit of 4D could whiff because they’re neutral teching. Your opponent might decide to jump on wake up. Thing is depending on when you did 4D your opponent might have enough time to jump and dash out, completely avoiding the second hit. When you do the 4D on wakeup, IAD kara fall instead of vivace B. VID 2A If they jump and you grab them at worst they’ll tech the throw, but they’re still in sandwich position. If they don’t tech the throw then proceed with a combo 2B They decide not to jump or you don’t grab them after kara cause you miss timed it a bit, well, you’ll kara fall behind nirvana and your opponent will be crossed up with the second hit of 4D. So it’s a win win situation. After kara fall dash towards nirvana. If they block the 4D cross up IAD j.2C allecan or vivace A depending on distance. (Vid is same as above) VID --4D used on defense Most of the time our opponents decide to turn their attention to nirvana when we’re hiding behind her. If you anticipate that your opponent will want to poke at her/hit her, input 4D. *On block While opponent is still blocking 4D, (depending on distance) vivace A/B, and/or IAD in if necessary to gain more ground, 2A 5A 5B 6B 6D -> sandwich pressure. *On hit Quickly get behind nirvana if you can: 66 5B 7 j.B 7]D[ j.C vivaceA -> combo VID
soujiro seta Posted June 26, 2010 Author Posted June 26, 2010 ^^^^ I made an edit to the corner reset for those who might have missed it. It's the last one in the corner reset section.
Kyle Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 You're doing a fine job over here Soujira! =D Once you are substancially complete, I will append the info into the OP, as well as the 101 thread with a TableOfContents.
soujiro seta Posted June 26, 2010 Author Posted June 26, 2010 You're doing a fine job over here Soujira! =D Once you are substancially complete, I will append the info into the OP, as well as the 101 thread with a TableOfContents. Thanks Kyle. Lol, a bunch of the stuff needs testing, but that's just a matter of time. So when CS comes out it will all be corrected. I'm pretty sure I made mistakes so if you guys find any plz correct me. Also, in PART 3 I changed up a few things to try and maximize what was shown in the video. So if at times you were going, "What the...what he wrote is not what was shown", yeah it's cause I put what I thought would go best so you could receive the best combo potential. I also filled in the blank for setups that were dropped, and put in a bunch of theory fighter as well
Kyle Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 I'm looking forward to console release in a few weeks. :D I'm going to focus on Combo's & 8]D[ traps, If you focus on your resets we can have a hellatious 101 in just a week or so after the game releases. If Zong_One or Zoogs wants to focus on OKI/ground tech traps, that's cool too. =P All of the bases will be covered. Could you put your stuff in a format like this? Standing reset - - - Crouching resets - - - Corner resets - - - Character Specific Resets (use examples which option-select against character specific reversals/escapes) - - -
Kyle Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 I'd suggest starting with a list of every move that end's in KD, than good examples of what combination of attacks Carl & Sister can do to to punish their tech's. Some options will cover(2) or (3) tech's at once. Also specify if it's in the corner or midscreen. KD's: 3C 2]D[ 8]D[ 4]D[ 214214D (Sometimes) 632146C B+C J.B+C
soujiro seta Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 I'm looking forward to console release in a few weeks. :D I'm going to focus on Combo's & 8]D[ traps, If you focus on your resets we can have a hellatious 101 in just a week or so after the game releases. If Zong_One or Zoogs wants to focus on OKI/ground tech traps, that's cool too. =P All of the bases will be covered. Could you put your stuff in a format like this? Standing reset - - - Crouching resets - - - Corner resets - - - Character Specific Resets (use examples which option-select against character specific reversals/escapes) - - - Sure, hopefully I finish it in time b4 CS release. I procrastinate too much. I'll put resets that work regardless of whether they are standing or crouching in a "Universal Reset" section.
soujiro seta Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 -Rhapsody Reset, 50 heat required (NEEDS TESTING) Get 9 hits in before inputting Rhapsody of memories. Dash in and charge 6C until a certain point. Immediately charge 6C again, this time to make it an unblockable. Your opponent will recover just in time to block the last hit of rhapsody, but 6C will also be fully charged right after the last hit of rhapsody connects. (The vid doesn’t show it but it gives a basic idea. The second 6C is the vid is not fully charged btw. The whole point is to start the second 6C from a point where it will become unblockable right after the last hit of rhapsody. This can be done by using the combo counter as a guage. Maybe a 6C started from a combo count of 17 will yield that? I don’t know, but it’ll need to be tested) VID 9 hits combo then do rhapsody – 66 6C until combo count of (__) – 6C fully charged starting at combo count of (___) -> combo (if your opponent doesn’t block the last hit of rhapsody they'll be sent flying and fully charged 6C will whiff, but you might recover in time to 5B j.B -> combo. I’m not sure yet) Lol, this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do8ugEO6mSk#t=1m55s) pretty much shows what I was saying, but atleast seeing it makes it easier to understand. I'll post the resets from that vid, edit the reset above, and also post some of the other stuff I found.
Kyle Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Airthrow UB Airthrow UB's are set-up from corner 8]D[ / 2]D[, Cantata, RC, Jump Airthrow. By doing this after a LONG combo we can gain: No throw break=-800(Cantata)+940(AirThrow) Throw break & Block = Walk nirvana toward & 8]D[ them while they block Cantata Throw Break and not block = Walk Nirvana towards, 8]D[, into whatever... Force Guard I found a way to force guard my opponent in the air, but I can't get 8]D[ to reach in time. Corner combo into 8]D[ / 2]D[, SJ, Allegreto, Late RC(This gains elevation), Jump Airthrow, They throw break, 623]D[, Air dash, J.C, J.B, J.A, 5A, 5B, 5A, J.A, 8]D[ (This misses). Corner Cantata UB 5B (BLOCKED), 632146C, RC, 66, 6C(CHARGE), 22]D[, 6C (UB), 5B, 2B, 3C, J.2C, Alle~can, 2]D[, 5C, J.C, 8]D[ (2HIts), 5C, J.B, Allegreto, 8]D[, IAD, J.2C, J.B, 2]D[ (Gains 50% Heat), 5C, 632146C, 8]D[ (During super flash). The 5C, 632146C does not combo, but this particular set-up gives DMG off off every action the opponent does, with a very few exceptions. (Haku can forward tech & counter the 8]D[, Rachel can forward tech & 8-wind)...
RagnaXBL Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 I'm having a lot of trouble just doing 5BB(22D)>IAD>J.2c>Allecan>etc i think its one of the most important resets. im having a hard time actually hitting the opponent as i sumtimes IAD right over the opponent way b4 the 2c comes out. i've got a feeling it has sumthing to do with the hit box or timing as i have an easier time doing this with hakumens and tagers as opposed to ragna's and noels. also i noticed that the next hit i do off the allecan doesnt combo and it resets again. maybe cuz im playing ct?
Akiro Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 . maybe cuz im playing ct? ....................................................... The most I could say is just input the j.2c sooner.
RagnaXBL Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 ....................................................... The most I could say is just input the j.2c sooner. ok so who it has nuthing to with ct. but can any1 tell me wat i should use after the allecan cuz right now im using 5c and it doesnt combo and im afraid they might start blocking the cross up after a while
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