[CS1] TK Crescent Loop Thread

[Xie]

It seems inevitable, a lot of questions are going to be asked about this combo, and rather than clutter up the combo/general discussion thread, better off dedicating a thread to the combo, since there's plenty to talk about irregardless. This is work in progress that I randomly decided to type out in one go, so expect many typos and potential restructuring of the entire guide. And of course, my methodology might not be perfect, but that's never going to happen right?

First of all, we'll take the ground up approach to this combo. This has many different conditions and they are often variable, so knowing how to ad-lib this combo is very important. It goes without saying, this combo deals big damage, so being able to shift into this combo is very important to Lambda's damage output.

So, what is this combo?

The combo works as an effect of the untechable time that the tk crescent gives you on a hit in the corner. When midscreen, your opponent will go flying away, often not letting you take advantage of this untechable time. However, in the corner, your opponent stays next to you, allow you to land a 6a after hitting with a tk Crescent. Hence, you're able to pick your opponents back up with a 6a or 5b and continue hitting them with another tk crescent. There are a lot of more subtle factors that influence and to continue the combo, those will be talked about in greater detail later.

Why does the combo end?

The main reason the combo ends is due to proation. Each time you hit your opponent with an attack that does not have positive proration, the combo's proration increases. As the combo's proration increases, it eventually reaches the threshold where the untechable time of all attacks in the combo decreases. Thus, eventually, once the proratio becomes high enough, the untech time from 6a becomes low enough such that it becomes no longer possible to connect a crescent after a 6a, and the thus combo ends.

How do I start this combo?

There are a lot of different ways to begin this combo, here are the most common ways:

(Corner) B+C-> 6a

(Corner) 236c Hit -> 5b(Omit if opponent is very high, such as from CH 236c) -> 6a

(Corner) 236b Hit -> (Dash) -> 5a -> 6a

(Corner) 3c -> 214a

(Corner) j214d (rc) -> 6a

(Corner) 214d -> 6a

(Near Corner Airhit) 6c -> (Dash) -> 6a

(Near Corner Airhit) 5ccccccc -> 214a -> 6a

Of course, there are many other ways as well to begin this combo, so be on the look out for them and determine whether the situation calls for the loop or not.

What are the core components of the combo?

The Normals:

Note, that you want your normals to hit your opponents as early as possible. Though, there are situations where this is not true, that is the exception and not the rule. For the most part, hitting as early as possible, you'll be able to preserve your opponent's height easier. The exact reasons for this we'll get into as we talk more about optimizing the combo.

6a: This is the attack that connects to the j214d, needless to say, it's an essential part of the combo. Fortunately, it's also the easiest, and there's nothing special in performing this move, save for doing it as early as possible.

5b: This is the secondary move that you use to hit characters with in the TK Crescent loop. If you want to build "height" in your combo, this is a necessary move. This attack also you to revolver action into a 6a on an airborne opponent at a larger height, so your opponent will be higher relative to yourself following a 5b 6a. As you probably guessed, the loop will also end if your opponent gets too low, because your 6a will not be able to connect. Specifically, this move is extremely helpful when you hit a cornered opponent with 236c. Note, adding an additional 5b will mean that you'll get one less 6a or j214d in the final hit count of your combo, so if you're looking for maximum damage versus stability, 5b will weaken your total rep count.

The Crescents:

Note that for whichever Crescent Saber you prefer to use in any given combo, it is greatly beneficial to perform it as low to the ground as possible. The lower you perform your Crescent Saber, the faster the start-up is. With that in mind, your opponent will fall less during the combo, and you'll be able to preserve your height more.

j2147d(tk7): This is the standard, and arguably the most easy TK motion for the low Crescent saber. This version will build distance, as you will jump away slightly from your opponent.

j2148d(tk8): This is another motion for the low Crescent Saber, this version builds a small amount of distance from your opponent.

j2149d(tk9): This is the last version of the low Crescent Saber, and this version will actually move you closer to your opponent, reducing distance.

Variable moves:

5cccccccc6c: On some characters, they will bounce high enough after a TK Crescent such that you can land a 5cccccccc6c on them. This is a viable choice and can be followed up with a 6a or 236c in many situations. However, for the most part, the damage seems to be inferior to a complete Crescent Loop, so I personally do not like this combo.

214a: If you suddenly feel like your opponent is dangerously low, you can theoretically pick them back up with a 214a. However, if you make this judgement, it is greatly beneficial to make this judgement early, as it will allow you to deal more damage and build more of your gravity back if done earlier as opposed to later. At which case, I believe that simply ending your loop prematurely is the best choice.

Enders:

6a -> j2dd/jdd -> j2dd -> j214d: Generic air combo ender. The damage is good, but the knockdown isn't anything special to speak of. This ender is important for when you want to cut your combo short, as it adds the most damage when your combo is shorter. You need to be farther away from your opponent to hit them with the swords, as they do not hit up close. It helps if you jump backwards away from your opponent and if your last few Crescent Sabers were tk7. Also, this is a nice way to mask that you messed up your tk motion and got a j.d.

3c: This is the standard knockdown ender. Landing one of these can be kind of tricky because your opponent needs to be bouncing at a certain height for it to hit properly. However, this is easily the best knockdown of the combo and gives you many different options to play with. Some common options after a 3c are 214d or jump iad backwards.

214d: No, really. Okay yeah, this usually happens because you fucked up your tk motion. But hey, sometimes your opponent will mash to tech and neutral tech into it, getting hit by it or air blocking it. Getting hit by Spike Chaser raw in the corner is HUGE DAMAGE, so its a nice way to turn a potential frown upside down.

How do I actually perform the combo?

The basic flow of the combo works like this:

Starter -> [Normals -> Crescent]xN -> Ender

There are four factors that you need to keep in mind while you continue the loop, and what they do to the loop:

Hitbox: The hitbox of your opponent. Luckily this doesn't mysteriously change during the combo, so it's all about knowing beforehand. I've compiled what I know at the end of the article.

Height: The current height of your opponent. This is important in many ways, and is perhaps the most important part of the combo. The current height of your opponent will determine whether your next attack will hit your opponent or not. There are many different forces at work here, and they depend on character hitbox, but for the most part, the lower your opponent is, the more in danger it is of dropping.

Distance: The horizontal distance of yourself to your opponent. Well, it should be obvious that if you're too far from your opponent, you won't be able to do this combo because your 6a or 5b will not hit. However, there are also some characters where being too close is also a problem (at some heights), so make sure you're aware of this.

Prorate: The current prorate of your combo. Now, its quite difficult to calculate the current proration of your combo in your head, so... the only way to know it is to have experience performing the combo. The reason this is important is, it will determine how much untech time you have left in your combo, and will determine whether certain maneuvers will be possible or not.

To perform the loop, just perform the inputs while keeping in mind the four factors. If your opponent gets too low, perform a 5b 6a to build vertical height. If you are getting farther from your opponent, perform a dashing attack to make up the horizontal distance. Once the prorate goes up, you won't be able to performing a dashing attack or late crescent sabers anymore, so make sure to optimize the height and distance before you get to this stage of the combo to max out the damage.

This is sort of difficult to visualize, so an example is in order:

Take for instance, the basic throw combo:

Throw -> 6a -> j214d -> 6a -> j214d -> 5b -> 6a -> j214d -> 6a -> j214d -> [Ender]

There are three basic ways to perform this combo, tk7 version, tk9 version, and the hybrid version.

Tk7 version:

Throw -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d -> Dash -> 5b -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d [Ender]

This is the basic version that was discovered, and for the most part, works on everyone. The way the combo works is very basic. As you perform the 6a j2147ds, you get farther from your opponent and they start to lose height. Thus, halfway through the combo, you performing a Dash 5b 6a to regain both height and distance on your opponent, optimizing both factors for the rest of the combo.

It is usually best to perform this maneuver at the 3rd rep for a couple a reason. The first reason is that on most characters, you will be out of range for a 5b or 6a anyways on the third rep, so a dash is necessary here regardless. The reason you want the 5b is another effect of this, there is more startup on your normals because of the dash, so you'll lose some height. Thus, the 5b will allow you to regain some height for your 6a to hit and then for the rest of your combo to hit. Note that it is possible to dash on the second rep as well, but that will mean that you will be too far to hit your opponent on the 5th rep, and a dash is not possible on the 5th rep due to the lost untech time due to the proration of the combo.

TK9 version:

Throw -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> (5b) -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> [Ender]

This is the second version of the combo. This does not work on everyone, but does not require a dash anywhere in the combo. This is because the j2149d keeps you close enough to your opponent for the entire combo. Thus, a 5b is also not always necessary, because the lost height from dashing doesn't always apply. This is important because on some characters, an extra rep is possible when the 5b is omitted, but more on that later.

Hybrid version:

Throw -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2149d -> (5b) -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2147d [Ender]

This is the practical application of both tks. As expected, it requires no dash, but also prevents you from being too close on some characters.

Conclusion:

In conclusion, there's a lot to practice regarding this combo. Hopefully, (with a few revisions), I've helped you understand a little more about it and how it works. As you might have gathered, there's a lot to keep track of if you want to be able to perform this combo on the fly, but practice and experience make perfect. I'll try to compile some video examples of the different variants that are possible.

Reference:

This is a bit of a WIP, since it will require massive testing and confirming to make sure this is all true/optimized for everyone.

[Xie]

Post resevered for FAQ:

But it'll look something like:

Help! I can't do the TK motion!:

Well, lots could be going wrong, even if you input the motion and press the button, here are some common problems:

I did a jumping d:

A) You didn't complete the motion properly before pressing D. Thus, with no proper 214 in there, you just get the D

B) You completed the motion, but pressed D too late. Thus, the game forgot your 214 and just remembers the D.

I did a ground 214d:

A) You didn't press any up motions at all before pressing D. Thus, you didn't jump so you get a ground 214d.

B) You canceled your jump startup into 214d. In Blazblue, it is possible to cancel your jump startup into special attacks. Thus, when you press D too quickly after inputting the jump, the jump will be canceled by the special attack before the jump completely comes out. Thus, you get a ground 214d.

I'm too high when I perform the crescent saber:

A) You pressed D too late, but completed the motion. Timing takes practice.

B) Your motion is too awkward. This one you really just need to practice and make sure you input it in a way that allows you to get the 214d to come out quickly.

[tuka]

It may be harder but I'd recommend completely omitting the habit of using 5B (unless in a situation where it's really needed), doing the loop with only 6A will prolong it by sometimes up to 3-5 reps which is obviously leading you up to a significant increase in damage.

For example, the 5 rep throw combo you wrote can go up to 7 reps and about 4500 damage.

Again this IS harder, even the top Japanese players resort to 5B from time to time, but I really recommend you to just sit on it and practice.

About the Reference section, with the method I mentioned above I found that the loop count is the same for everyone as long as your'e good enough with it.

And you can add Carl, Noel and Taokaka to the "don't get too close to the corner" part (I'm sure I missed someone here but oh well).

[germanturkey]

i actually found that to do a tk, i need to go all the way to 8 to make it work. otherwise it just it just registers as a spike chaser. granted, i've played on an arcade stick exactly once, but still. anywho, great guide.

[Xie]

It may be harder but I'd recommend completely omitting the habit of using 5B (unless in a situation where it's really needed), doing the loop with only 6A will prolong it by sometimes up to 3-5 reps which is obviously leading you up to a significant increase in damage.

To my knowledge, omitting a 5b and only doing 6a in a tk combo will absolutely NOT prolong a combo 3-5 reps. I'm not really sure how you came up with this idea, but 5b prorates extremely similarly to 6a and Crescent Saber when used in the middle of a combo (90% versus 91%), and that additional 1% prorate in the middle of your combo isn't going to magically give you an additional 3-5 reps. Each 5b will mean that you will get 1 less 6a or Crescent Saber, and that is pretty much all that means. I'm guessing I forgot to explicitly mention this somewhere in the guide, so I'll rewrite it to include this.

For example, the 5 rep throw combo you wrote can go up to 7 reps and about 4500 damage.

Again this IS harder, even the top Japanese players resort to 5B from time to time, but I really recommend you to just sit on it and practice.

About the Reference section, with the method I mentioned above I found that the loop count is the same for everyone as long as your'e good enough with it.

And you can add Carl, Noel and Taokaka to the "don't get too close to the corner" part (I'm sure I missed someone here but oh well).

Hey now, I'm not sure if you misread or something, but I said that throw combo was only an example in how to perform the combo.

In any case, I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding or not, but it is definitely not possible to get [6a -> j214d] X 7 based on the proration data. It is possible to get 4445 damage from a throw via Throw -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> j2dd -> j2dd -> j214d. If this is the combo you're probably talking about, and this is a 6 rep version with air combo ender. If you have a video or something that shows otherwise, I'd love to see it, as I certainly wouldn't mind adding an additional rep myself.

About the Reference section, with the method I mentioned above I found that the loop count is the same for everyone as long as your'e good enough with it.

And you can add Carl, Noel and Taokaka to the "don't get too close to the corner" part (I'm sure I missed someone here but oh well).

Regarding Carl, Noel, and Taokaka, it is true that if you're too close to the corner, your Crescent Saber may whiff. However, this can be avoided via additional height, so it's not so much an issue of closeness as it is an issue of spacing.

And you're right, the reference section isn't finished, it's something I just threw out there because I was sick of writing already and I wanted to be finished, but is supposed to eventually have a list of hitbox considerations to think about. Numerically, it is theoretically possible to get the same number of reps on everyone, but the issue of hitboxes can cause it to be difficult to retain height while maintaining closeness. Sorry I wasn't clear with that, I'll rewrite it to be more clear.

[tuka]

To my knowledge, omitting a 5b and only doing 6a in a tk combo will absolutely NOT prolong a combo 3-5 reps. I'm not really sure how you came up with this idea, but 5b prorates extremely similarly to 6a and Crescent Saber when used in the middle of a combo (90% versus 91%), and that additional 1% prorate in the middle of your combo isn't going to magically give you an additional 3-5 reps. Each 5b will mean that you will get 1 less 6a or Crescent Saber, and that is pretty much all that means. I'm guessing I forgot to explicitly mention this somewhere in the guide, so I'll rewrite it to include this.

I didn't "come up with the idea", I wrote that from personal experience.

If you manage to do a "perfect" TK (absolute lowest point) you can tack in some additional Crescent Sabers, it's hard but possible.

I never looked at Lambda's date so I don't know what should seemingly be possible or not, but as I said it was something I managed to do.

Maybe you miscalculated..or something along those lines, not trying to point it out on you but go figure.

[Xie]

I didn't "come up with the idea", I wrote that from personal experience.

If you manage to do a "perfect" TK (absolute lowest point) you can tack in some additional Crescent Sabers, it's hard but possible.

I never looked at Lambda's date so I don't know what should seemingly be possible or not, but as I said it was something I managed to do.

Maybe you miscalculated..or something along those lines, not trying to point it out on you but go figure.

It's a figure of speech man.

But anyways, I understand that yes, you can get extra reps when you omit 5b. But dude, you said an extreme number of extra reps, which is definitely misleading unless otherwise true. Like I said, if you'll show it to me I'll believe you, but until then, I'm forced to disagree.

Ninja-while-writing-the-post-edit: I just managed to do 7 reps off a throw on Bang :X

I think I saw a video of some Lambda player doing it a couple of days ago, don't remember which of them though..

Cool. Now, like I said, it would be awesome if you could somehow confirm this. Even a shitty phone camera picture of the red colored 16 would be good enough for me. If I seem overly skeptical, it's not because I'm dying to prove you wrong or something, it's because I just want to know the truth and be able to confirm it. Because this thread is a psuedo-guide to a combo, I want to be able to confirm this data before I pass it onto other people.

[tuka]

We got dragged into discussing the throw combo, but I was more referring to the other ones, especially 236C and 236B (or 236B RC). Doing precise 6A's on those will give you the 3-5 more reps I was talking about.

And hey, I have absolutely no intention of misleading or lying, but anyway, I'll try recording the combo.

[tuka]

Got it just when it wasn't recording. Obviously. I'm officially tired now. (It's really hard)

You could always add a note like "some claim it goes all the way up to 7!!"

[Xie]

We got dragged into discussing the throw combo, but I was more referring to the other ones, especially 236C and 236B (or 236B RC). Doing precise 6A's on those will give you the 3-5 more reps I was talking about.

Yes, I realize that you meant all Crescent Saber combos and not just the one that begins from throw, but I still don't think you'll get an additional 3-5 more reps.

For example, my personal best on 236C CH on Bang would be 236C CH -> [6a -> j214d] X7 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 17. If I am forced to add the 5b to the start of the combo, I'm usually ending up with something like 236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 16 Hits. So, if it is the case that you can get 3-5 more reps without adding 5b to the start, could you also record a 236C (CH or not) where you are able to get 9~11 reps?

And hey, I have absolutely no intention of misleading or lying, but anyway, I'll try recording the combo.

Sweet, I'm totally looking forward to this.

As a person, I absolutely trust you, but as a moderator and a Lambda player, it's my duty to doubt. I'm happy you brought this issue up and aren't getting defensive about it, because as a community, we all benefit from sharing, discussing, and critiquing each other's knowledge.

[tuka]

Yes, I realize that you meant all Crescent Saber combos and not just the one that begins from throw, but I still don't think you'll get an additional 3-5 more reps.

For example, my personal best on 236C CH on Bang would be 236C CH -> [6a -> j214d] X7 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 17. If I am forced to add the 5b to the start of the combo, I'm usually ending up with something like 236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 16 Hits. So, if it is the case that you can get 3-5 more reps without adding 5b to the start, could you also record a 236C (CH or not) where you are able to get 9~11 reps?

I think you misunderstood (and I guess I didn't express myself clearly), I was talking about situations where you use 5B more than once, since positioning isn't always perfect it's a common situation.

Although 8 reps are possible (same as what I'm talking about with the throw combo).

Sweet, I'm totally looking forward to this.

As a person, I absolutely trust you, but as a moderator and a Lambda player, it's my duty to doubt. I'm happy you brought this issue up and aren't getting defensive about it, because as a community, we all benefit from sharing, discussing, and critiquing each other's knowledge.

Sorry, as I said last page-

"Got it just when it wasn't recording. Obviously. I'm officially tired now. (It's really hard)

You could always add a note like "some claim it goes all the way up to 7!!""

And thanks, I also totally agree with you.

[Xie]

I think you misunderstood (and I guess I didn't express myself clearly), I was talking about situations where you use 5B more than once, since positioning isn't always perfect it's a common situation.

Although 8 reps are possible (same as what I'm talking about with the throw combo).

Ah, yes. See, I previously said that:

Each 5b will mean that you will get 1 less 6a or Crescent Saber, and that is pretty much all that means.

So I was hoping that you understood what I meant when I said that, but I also wasn't completely clear either.

Thus, let it be known to all who read this thread, if you do 5b 6a for each rep, you'll get less reps because each 5b will prevent a 6a or Crescent down the line.

[Maho]

For example, my personal best on 236C CH on Bang would be 236C CH -> [6a -> j214d] X7 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 17. If I am forced to add the 5b to the start of the combo, I'm usually ending up with something like 236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 16 Hits.

Same here, can't get more than 7 reps after a 236C with 6As only, after a throw i can do 6 on everyone (though some are really hard), never been able to get a valid 7th rep, i would also be interested in seeing a video.

There one thing you could add in the guide under "variables moves", i never saw anyone in videos use it but i think it can be interesting, 6B > 5C mash > 2C > j214D, here's an exemple :

- Throw > 6A > j214D > 6B > 5C mash > 2C > j214D > (6A > j214D) x 3 > ender, you'll get almost the same damage as stantard 6 reps combo (4422 vs 4445 with air como ender) but it's quite easier on some characters.

[Dacidbro]

Something to think about, often when you have a particularly strict timing loop, people are mashing a lot harder to get out of it, and usually holding backwards too to auto block if they succeed in teching; what this sets up is some pretty funny tech trap moments, especially for lambda with this loop. Imagine with me for a moment, the following;

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6

At this point, if my brief research is correct, all you can get is another 6A, and the next crescent blackbeats. However, if you dash up like you're going to continue it, deliberately drop it, and throw your air unblockable 6A a moment later, you either get;

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> RESET 6a > Crescent > [6a -> j214d] X 6 for a mind blowing 9k (Right? 4422, and another 4-5k?)

or

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> RESET 6a (Gets barrier blocked) > pressure

This is the same sort of concept behind my reset 5Cs that catch people all the time (More for Jame's understanding than anyone else); they only really work when I deliberately cut off the combo for them, instead of tack them on to the end. Your blessing with the loop is that EVERY part is the same, so people will get really nervous about teching out of it, AND that the loop is BY DEFAULT IN THE CORNER () which is the best place to AUB reset anyway

Obvious pros; you win/force burst if you succeed

Obvious cons; 6A isn't that great of an AUB, takes tricky timing, relies on your opponent's tech tendencies (so read them BEFORE you try it)

Thoughts, James? This could all be really stupid, just trying to help. I know little about Lambda, but I know all about AUB traps

[Xie]

Something to think about, often when you have a particularly strict timing loop, people are mashing a lot harder to get out of it, and usually holding backwards too to auto block if they succeed in teching; what this sets up is some pretty funny tech trap moments, especially for lambda with this loop. Imagine with me for a moment, the following;

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6

At this point, if my brief research is correct, all you can get is another 6A, and the next crescent blackbeats. However, if you dash up like you're going to continue it, deliberately drop it, and throw your air unblockable 6A a moment later, you either get;

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> RESET 6a > Crescent > [6a -> j214d] X 6 for a mind blowing 9k (Right? 4422, and another 4-5k?)

or

236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> RESET 6a (Gets barrier blocked) > pressure

This is the same sort of concept behind my reset 5Cs that catch people all the time (More for Jame's understanding than anyone else); they only really work when I deliberately cut off the combo for them, instead of tack them on to the end. Your blessing with the loop is that EVERY part is the same, so people will get really nervous about teching out of it, AND that the loop is BY DEFAULT IN THE CORNER () which is the best place to AUB reset anyway

Obvious pros; you win/force burst if you succeed

Obvious cons; 6A isn't that great of an AUB, takes tricky timing, relies on your opponent's tech tendencies (so read them BEFORE you try it)

Thoughts, James? This could all be really stupid, just trying to help. I know little about Lambda, but I know all about AUB traps

Haha, resets are all about play style man.

But more seriously, this doesn't exactly work the way you think it does. If you miss the 6a and allow your opponent to tech, it is not an airtech, but an emergency tech or ground tech. What happens in the corner is, your j214d will hit them, they ground bounce, then it continues to be untechable all the way until they ground bounce a second time. Once they hit the floor a second time, the window for "Emergency Tech" is activated. If they miss this, two things happen: 1) You 6a anyways and it picks them up during the second groundbounce, causing a blue beat or 2) You completely blow your 6a, and your opponent is then allowed to Ground Tech (Quick, Neutral, Forward, Backward). Your opponent is actually not able to airtech anywhere in the combo after being hit by a crescent.

Now, you could actually try to air reset your opponent from 6a into another 6a, but the way the tech works from 6a is they will become air tech invincible during the neutral tech, then hit the ground before your 6a can hit them. On an unrelated note, you can use this to try and astral your opponent like a ghetto 720c trap, but it is very difficult to get an air reset like you would using bang's 5c and the double air fire punch air-tech set-up.

[Dacidbro]

Haha, resets are all about play style man.

But more seriously, this doesn't exactly work the way you think it does. If you miss the 6a and allow your opponent to tech, it is not an airtech, but an emergency tech or ground tech. What happens in the corner is, your j214d will hit them, they ground bounce, then it continues to be untechable all the way until they ground bounce a second time. Once they hit the floor a second time, the window for "Emergency Tech" is activated. If they miss this, two things happen: 1) You 6a anyways and it picks them up during the second groundbounce, causing a blue beat or 2) You completely blow your 6a, and your opponent is then allowed to Ground Tech (Quick, Neutral, Forward, Backward). Your opponent is actually not able to airtech anywhere in the combo after being hit by a crescent.

Now, you could actually try to air reset your opponent from 6a into another 6a, but the way the tech works from 6a is they will become air tech invincible during the neutral tech, then hit the ground before your 6a can hit them. On an unrelated note, you can use this to try and astral your opponent like a ghetto 720c trap, but it is very difficult to get an air reset like you would using bang's 5c and the double air fire punch air-tech set-up.

Oh

Ghetto

And yeah, I can't even vaguely imagine 6A > 6A reset working. Sucks.

.. For lambda, I mean. Im glad I don't have to worry

Hmm, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

[tuka]

Teching with option-select barrier (back+A+B), which is what everyone should do in a situation like this, will prevent any kind of reset attempt.

[Dacidbro]

Teching with option-select barrier (back+A+B), which is what everyone should do in a situation like this, will prevent any kind of reset attempt.

Yeah, I agree, but

1, for some reason many dont

2, it would have, worst case allowed some real pressure-ending, for when the 3C ender didn't work

Just trying to get some thoughts going; regardless, it certainly isn't a working idea.

[lunaris]

i highly recommend you include the technique of 6a>9>j.214d(buffering the jump cancel before inputting saber as opposed to TKing) here(mentioned by worldjem7 in the combo discussion thread). it's so much easier than TKing that i see absolutely no reason not to use it. being able to consistently do "tk9" sabers makes the combo much easier, as you both don't need to run and if you ever mess up and do a high saber you can cover yourself with 5b. this method also prevents you from ever getting a high jump(i'm fairly sure high jumping affects the height at which your saber comes out).

it'd be great if we could get a list of how many reps are possible off some basic starters(throw, 236d, 214d, 236c, 5d>236b, 3c, anti-air 2d and 6a, calamity sword, 5b, 2b, j.214d, etc), but i suppose that's asking for a lot. at the very least i can confirm more than 5 reps off of a throw for sure; at least 4400 damage.

if you ask me, it'd be good to include tk saber>5d combos in this thread's purpose as well, by the way. getting it consistently requires a decent amount of specific knowledge, as does knowing whether it's possible in a given combo or not in the first place.

[Beautiful Death]

Can't imagine why this isn't more active. Every Lambda player in the world that can't do this should be looking at this thread.

Heh. Didn't even see this thread until NOW, AFTER I can do it pretty easily. Lol. Is this where you got it from Luna? If so, you're not such a genius.

Yeah. This is SO easy with 9 Saber. Lol. Like really. Wonder why Japanese dudes like Goro and Minori run forward during the loop when you can just 9 Saber.

And of course, you should NEVER 5b unless you have too. Like, if your Saber is too high or something and you need to pop them up higher. It's pointless otherwise I think. Takes away damage and doesn't do anything outside of being a safeguard.

Something funny of note. I've only tried this against Ragna, but if he's in the corner you can go

5dd > Parser B > 5a > 6a then loop from there. no meter or anything.

dunno if it's practical because the timing is a bit strict, but was fun to discover. Well, really hard, but still. I used to think the loop was difficult at first because I would have to run every two or three reps, but with 9 Saber it's SO easy. Course, when you're getting near the end of the loop you'll want to either

do a standard or backwards TK saber to get in position for the ender. But otherwise, 9 is the way ta go. Or if you're the boss at Lambda you can alternate between forward and backwards saber so you hover back and forth with every rep. It looks pretty cool!

AWESOME thread! Can't believe it took so long for a corner loop thread to appear, really.

Maybe soon we'll start seeing some U.S Lambdas actually making use of TK Saber for once. Heh. Luna dude you should say something. I'm sure you could explain it much better then I. By far.

Oh never mind. You got it. Hee hee hee. Yeah. That's the way ta go. The buffering 9 thingie.

It is SUPER easy that way. I feel like such a BA when doing the loop. swishy-jotaihenko-swishy-jotaihenko-swishy-jotaihenko

Lol it's TOO fun.

[tuka]

Something funny of note. I've only tried this against Ragna, but if he's in the corner you can go

5dd > Parser B > 5a > 6a then loop from there. no meter or anything.

Already wrote about that in the combo thread:

"Ragna, Noel, Litchi, Lambda and Bang - Corner 236B > 5A > 6A > 2147D

Jin, Ragna, Noel and Bang - Corner 236B > 5B > 6A > 2147D"

[Xie]

i highly recommend you include the technique of 6a>9>j.214d(buffering the jump cancel before inputting saber as opposed to TKing) here(mentioned by worldjem7 in the combo discussion thread). it's so much easier than TKing that i see absolutely no reason not to use it. being able to consistently do "tk9" sabers makes the combo much easier, as you both don't need to run and if you ever mess up and do a high saber you can cover yourself with 5b. this method also prevents you from ever getting a high jump(i'm fairly sure high jumping affects the height at which your saber comes out).

Well, tking is definitely preference thing, and finding whatever input works for you is best. But yeah, for some people 6a9214d is a lot easier. I'll try to find time to write up different input methods for the FAQ part, since that usually goes under "Help! I can't do the motion!" type stuff.

But hey, I actually prefer the run version sometimes. I get kinda nervous on characters like Ragna, so I'll do the run version to prevent myself from ever getting too close/low. So yeah, I'd leave it down to personal preference.

it'd be great if we could get a list of how many reps are possible off some basic starters(throw, 236d, 214d, 236c, 5d>236b, 3c, anti-air 2d and 6a, calamity sword, 5b, 2b, j.214d, etc), but i suppose that's asking for a lot. at the very least i can confirm more than 5 reps off of a throw for sure; at least 4400 damage.

Yeah it'll take awhile...

I have some rough data for this, but it will take me awhile to organize and test it all. On the bright side, I won't have to test character specifics technically, since it's the "numerically highest due to frame data" type limit. On the fly though, it's actually really important to know the how different the moves prorate as the first hit or in a combo. This is the only real way you'll be able to accurately judge how many reps you're be able to do given any starter or any follow-up.

As for me, I'll puss out and only shoot for 5 on the 60 prorate stuff (throw, airthrow, gravity CH), and only 6 on the 80+ stuff (pretty much everything else). 3c knockdown is a big part of my playstyle, so I'll always sacrifice some damage to land it.

if you ask me, it'd be good to include tk saber>5d combos in this thread's purpose as well, by the way. getting it consistently requires a decent amount of specific knowledge, as does knowing whether it's possible in a given combo or not in the first place.

You know, I do want to talk about j214d -> 5d in another thread. But that's probably going to be a bigger thread just titled "Basic Combo Theory". The Crescent loop is the only combo that is far different from her other combos and takes its own thread. But j214d -> 5d is one of those moves you can throw out in a lot of different bnbs and situations, so I'd rather just rather talk about "how to combo" if that's the case. But yeah, I'll get to work on it after I find time to finish this one.

Text

Already wrote about that in the combo thread:

"Ragna, Noel, Litchi, Lambda and Bang - Corner 236B > 5A > 6A > 2147D

Jin, Ragna, Noel and Bang - Corner 236B > 5B > 6A > 2147D"

This is a pretty sweet combo in it of itself, I eventually want to make a full list of people who you can hit with it, dash or no dash. I know for a fact you can hit even Carl with 5a -> 6a if you are beast enough with the dash, so I definitely want to talk about this combo at some point.

[lunaris]

Is this where you got it from Luna? If so, you're not such a genius.

i didn't say that; it was simply mentioned here by someone else first, so i gave worldjem7 credit. either way, i wouldn't be trapped here if i was.

You know, I do want to talk about j214d -> 5d in another thread. But that's probably going to be a bigger thread just titled "Basic Combo Theory". The Crescent loop is the only combo that is far different from her other combos and takes its own thread. But j214d -> 5d is one of those moves you can throw out in a lot of different bnbs and situations, so I'd rather just rather talk about "how to combo" if that's the case. But yeah, I'll get to work on it after I find time to finish this one.

it's understandable that you want to keep information separated. i personally think we'd be better off if we kept information more organized via more threads, but on dustloop "less threads with more information" seems to be a preference.

i will bring up the point, though, that the [meterless] tk saber combos in general are different from CT combos as well in execution, and that tk saber is related to this combo because there are some setups into it from tk saber(anti air 2dd>tkCS>loop and 236b>5dd>236c combos come to mind first) that aren't possible without it.

also, since the tk saber loop can be done without the jump buffering method, it is a matter of preference. since either method actually works, the only thing i can argue about that is that if you don't use the jump buffering method, assuming you can't do tk9 saber every time, you're just creating an extra step for yourself(the run). it's easier for a number of other reasons as well, but i can't use those to argue against preference because "if you do the tk and run right it doesn't matter" counters them all.

[kenja0]

If you can press 7/8/9 after a 6A to buffer the jump before the command, is it possible to do a Crescent Saber in time by inputting 963214D for TK9 and 78963214D for TK7? (I'm out of practice and am looking for a difficulty curve or command speed in comparison with the other ways I find a little stiff to do).

A stable command path can keep consistency rather than pressing multiple directions and buttons within a sequence of perfected timing. If we can simplify the sequence to only timing the '360s' speed and buttons rather than pressing 6/214/7,9 or 6/7,9/214 with buttons and timing, we can really get this down to a science.

Of course, if we can't input the command fast enough to get it to work... then I guess I better start perfecting my inputs and timing.

[Xie]

If you can press 7/8/9 after a 6A to buffer the jump before the command, is it possible to do a Crescent Saber in time by inputting 963214D for TK9 and 78963214D for TK7? (I'm out of practice and am looking for a difficulty curve or command speed in comparison with the other ways I find a little stiff to do).

A stable command path can keep consistency rather than pressing multiple directions and buttons within a sequence of perfected timing. If we can simplify the sequence to only timing the '360s' speed and buttons rather than pressing 6/214/7,9 or 6/7,9/214 with buttons and timing, we can really get this down to a science.

Of course, if we can't input the command fast enough to get it to work... then I guess I better start perfecting my inputs and timing.

It's possible to simply the motion to a 360, and they do work. However, I personally don't like them, but it's still a matter of preference.

As you said, because you have to make all these inputs within a "small" window, it is easy to tk7 too late and wind up with a late tk. In doing high rep versions of this combo, a late tk can mean the end of your combo.

Also, I find when I do the over simplified motion, I end up doing Calamity sword on accident. Because of this, the motion becomes really weird for me: it's supposed to be an easier motion, but then I find myself having to watch the inputs and timing to make sure I don't get Calamity sword.

tl;dr: It works, but I still like the standard inputs more. I like having clear, precise inputs.