[CS1] Mu-12 General Discussion Thread

[TD]

I always wondered, besides combos what is habakiri for? l know it has long active frames, but it never seems to protect me. Most of my steins are also placed in the air. l know it's a bad habit but...

[SkyKing]

I find that 3C is a pretty bad habit, and learning to space it is important so characters with range don't think it's so free. If blocked I end up doing 5D -> JC -> j.4D -> air backdash -> j.2D to cover my tracks. Then, on landing you can detonate, laser, or 5C depending on if they chase you or not. I tend to play Mu-12 as a mid-ranger, set Steins when given room and using 5C and j.C to play footsies. As soon as I land a combo, I go back to that sweet spot so they don't have a chance to retaliate. My 2 cents there.

[TD]

Thanks sky. l have to remember that she's a zoner and that close range is bad in many situations for her... l started doing 3c - 5d last night btw instead of fishing for a combo only. l'm going to try your way.

And wow, explosions... work... niiiice....

[FlyingVe]

I'm a relatively new Mu player so take my advice with a grain of salt. First, it kinda seemed like you were placing stiens at random. Personally I try to place stiens in a 5D>6D sort of configuration (or the arial equivalent). Controlling horizontal space is a really effective way of getting in on people and starting you (lacking) mix-up game. Hit confirm a little better. If 2B hits, 3c will too, then you can do you BnB and set up 5D>6D>236D oki. All, in all it looked solid. The character is still in the formative stages so I don't have any more thoughts.

A question for Mu users. j2C is one of Mu's more interesting tools, it can be instant aired and you can set up a very ambiguous cross up by doing it right over peoples head. But what do you do if it's blocked? It is often suggested to use it in mix-up but it seems to me that the move is just a deathtrap if somebody blocks it. Is there something I should do in this situation that I'm not thinking of?

[TD]

l do mash steins alot... lol

For j.2c, welll there are instances where l was able to cancel the recovery with 5d... don't know if it really works. l do know that you can do ame no habaya during a hit or a recovery.

[SkyKing]

I try not to use j.2C as a gimmick until near the very end of the match when you do have meter and your opponent had to burst to avoid losing. It ground bounces on counter hit, so any combo she hits will lead to very big damage, and that sets up points to bait bursts. If it is blocked, the ambiguity of the move allows you to relatively safe options off after canceling into a Stein. I really like air Steins to air dashes, and you can mix them up by either going into or out of the direction you place it. I'd just say to watch out for specific dp's that hit more above than across.

Also, if you do attempt j.2C really low the Steins may not come out or you'll have a harder time canceling into them.

EDIT: Can't cancel into Steins after block j.2C. Even so, I think that if it decides the match, it would be worth it to go for the ambiguity factor. If it doesn't work, you can always RC into several options, like Steins sets, dp, or even gold bursting if you feel gutsy.

[Maho]

How do you cancel j2C into a stein on block, the move is only special cancelable in this situation.

[Aginor]

You can't cancel into a Stein summon if your j.2c is blocked. Your only safe option if j.2c is blocked is to rapid cancel it but I feel that meter is worth using more for tacking on supers at the end of your combos for the extra 1500-1700 damage. I would try to avoid it as much as possible, imo.

[FlyingVe]

That's what I figured. I thought the frames might be enough to sneak in a DP or backdash after the j2C. Still, if you get good at throwing the j2C at that magical spot above the opponents head, it is really hard to tell which way to block.

[Aginor]

All the opponent has to do is jump block and watch for the throw in case you decide to do that instead of j.2c. So I still don't recommend it unless like your opponent likes to sit there and just block. =p

[FlyingVe]

Well, using it after a jump is pretty gimmicky. Something like 6A>IAD>2D would get beat pretty bad. But when you have 5D>6D oki you have lots of options. You Can dash 6D>5D to keep the laser going and this gives you time cross up. Instead you could go for the ambiguous j2C. It still risky (as it's a 50:50 guess), but it will force them to make the guess and not just jump out.

[Aginor]

You do realize that there are gaps within 5d 6d 236d right? I'm pretty sure your opponent will be able to jump block it and still be able to punish you. I've even been punished for doing 5d 6d 236d into stuff. Ehh.....sure you can go for the cross up but I don't agree with going for the j.2c right there. Like I said, there's gaps between the laser hits. They can just hold the 7 direction (up back) and still block it.

[FlyingVe]

Well, yes they can jump out of the lasers. That's why I would only do any kind of jumping after you do the extended oki with Dash6D>5D, which makes it much harder to jump out with impunity. But setting that up is in and itself is a risk. Jumping out of the lasers in this situation is very risky for the opponent; Mu has a good air throw (range), decent Air to Air, and anti Air, plus if you jumped at the wrong time you run the risk of getting hit out of jump startup by lasers(it seems to happen to people jumping out of lasers quite often). I'm sure it isn't Mu's best option as it's so slow and punishable, but the more things you can give your opponent to think about during mixup, the better (IMO).

[Aginor]

Even if you did extended oki, delayed forward tech throw/reversal. Then again, nobody should rely on 5d 6d 236d all that much. Sure it keeps the opponent blocking but you can eat a lot of bad things if your opponent knows how to get out of it.

Even if they were neutral teching, they can IB a laser and jump out and not have to worry too much about jump start up. But that's why I said all the opponent has to do is jump block and watch for the throw.

My point is you can't rely on 5d 6d 236d that much. Even if they neutral teched, they still have ways out of your options.

[FlyingVe]

Fair enough, that particular oki is far from bulletproof. I try hard to mix it up.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing (not trying to be a jerk), when I said Dash6D>5D, I meant it as in this oki string:

5D>6D>236D>Dash6D>5D>Mixup (this is all with the same laser)

[Aginor]

If you know your opponent doesn't really know what to do, then yea that will work. You can also replace the 2nd 5d with 2d depending on what you prefer.

Edit: If you're keeping your opponent in blockstun that long like dash summon 2 more steins during 236d. You could cancel the 2nd stein to 63214C for breaking primers.

[FlyingVe]

I save that trick for Tager usually, in fact 62314C seems really good against Tager on the whole. The other more mobile/DP characters make me regret trying that too often. It seems to me that alot of Mu's oki relies on making the opponent nervous/second-guessing their options, as opposed to actual guard stun (ala CT Rachel), so I think it's important to keep up the mindgames.

[TD]

Your right fv. That makes it imortant to always mix it up. Mu can have long blockstrings, but from my experience none of it is actually inescapeable unlike CT Rachel, so playing mindgames should be second nature.

Speaking of that though. During a knockdown 5d setup, and l know my op will forward tech, how do l deal with it and keep them in check/guard so they'll know not to try again?

[FlyingVe]

Doesn't 2B catch tech rolls? Most people don't try to tech roll the Lasers on me yet. Which is probably inexperience with the matchup on their part. There are only a handful of competent Mu players on XBL.

[Obsessed]

Not sure if this belongs in here or the newbie thread, but whatever. I just unlocked Mu and was doing the challenge mode when I got stuck at 6A, 2C, sj, JB, J2C. The combo shouldn't be hard at all, but for some reason I can't get the superjump cancel to come out. Are any of Mu's more practical combos reliant on this superjump cancel?

[TD]

Most of the time, no. But for the times it is... buffer the 2c.

I found that 5c also punishes... but 2b gives advantage, so i'll try it.

[FlyingVe]

I did some testing in training mode. Forward Tech rolls were caught by 2A, 2B, 5C, 6A, 3C, and 632146C. Though 3C would be nigh impossible to time if you didn't know exactly when the opponent was teching.

2A, 2B, and 6A all seem like very good options because of their safety and the options they give you after a hit/block. Though, punishing a roll with the super could be really fun.

[whitevoid]

was messing around with 236A some, and to me it seems really good canceled off of setting steins. i don't really see it used much at all, so just wondering if it's something standard or if there are reasons to not do it.

[TD]

l use 236a. lt's a good move tbqh. All the more options to keep op in check. And it stays out, l love it.

5a seems a bit short though. Perhaps just 2b and set off steins it it screws up. Or if they block, tick throw. That's another thing. Mu's tick is sex with meter.

[TD]

So guys, given the developing matchup information, as well as general playing and your own experience, where would you put Mu on the tier list, currently?

I give her mid - A tier. Solid damage, zoning and rushdown make her a good candidate for high tier. A lack of really great normals up close and dependance on steins (and their placement) lower her scores, more or less. She's also a bit slow.

Well, what do you guys think?