[CS1] Mu-12 General Discussion Thread

[Afro-Demon]

I wouldn't think its safe on block. The move is pretty slow and pretty bad out of combo from what I've seen.

Her meter gain isn't bad but not great. From a throw combo into 1 rep of corner loop it looks like she got somewhere in between 30-40% meter.

[Overheat]

Okay, I have two questions to clear things up. Pressing Mu's drive sets up a Stein. For example, 5D. If you just press 5D again 4 seconds later, will another Stein be formed in the same place? Or will it make the first Stein shoot lasers?

And if you press 5DD (two 5D's consecutively), will it "immediately" shoot lasers?

[PhoenonX]

I wouldn't think its safe on block. The move is pretty slow and pretty bad out of combo from what I've seen.

Her meter gain isn't bad but not great. From a throw combo into 1 rep of corner loop it looks like she got somewhere in between 30-40% meter.

That's about as much as a basic Ragna/Hazama BNB.

I'd still give Mu a lot more time, she has the potential to pull a lot of crazy stuff once people start getting a little creative with her.

[Afro-Demon]

First question.

5D just sets a stein right in front of Mu. If you use 5D later on, it will just set another stein directly in front of her. If she happens to be in the same spot she set the first, I believe they would overlap, but I 'm not sure.

Second question.

I don't know if it fires immediately, but the first stein of the 5DD then becomes a blue laser, which has more hit stun, hit stop, block stun, and even breaks a primer according to Mizzet.

[Afro-Demon]

I honestly want to if there's any tech traps we can pull off to land a fully charged 63214C, hit or block. Hit it wall bounces and according to the combo thread it can take three primers if blocked.

[Mizzet]

Nice findings on the blue laser. That will really help her oki. Who has/getting the JP version? That way we can ask them to try combos and the like. One combo I'd like tested is 2B>3C>2B>5C>6C>2D>jc>IAD>j.C>j.2DD. Should net her around 2.7 k plus oki and 3 steins, one blue one. Maybe even try jump canceling 2DD so we could get 4 out and 2 be blue lasers.

That works, one of her challenges is similar in design.

Okay, I have two questions to clear things up. Pressing Mu's drive sets up a Stein. For example, 5D. If you just press 5D again 4 seconds later, will another Stein be formed in the same place? Or will it make the first Stein shoot lasers?

And if you press 5DD (two 5D's consecutively), will it "immediately" shoot lasers?

If you press 5d again after 4 seconds, this is long enough that it will count as a new 5d and not the second d in 5dd, in this case, a new stein will be formed at the 5d position relative yo Mu. If you didn't move at all this means there'll be two steins overlapping and sharing the same airspace.

If you press 5dd, the laser still fires at the same time (that is to say, short pause after the stein is formed), only difference is that it will be the blue one. Also, don't have hard science on this but it seems to delay the laser slightly due to the followup. Suppose the laser automatically fires 1 second after the stein is placed, if you do 5dd, the second d resets the timer so it becomes 1 second after the second d press. Might be wrong, this is from me just eyeballing it.

*Regarding the blue laser breaking primers, I'm trying it and it doesn't seem to be the case, cpu isn't losing any primers. Assumed it would break primers from somewhere else I read, but it doesn't seem to be doing so.

**Forgot to mention, 6b also combos into 63214c for 1.7k + knocks them away. Decent I guess if you have no meter.

[Overheat]

K, thanks for clearing things up Afro-Demon and Mizzet. I said 4 seconds because I figured that'd be long enough for the 5D to be separate of the first 5D, as opposed to 5D (30 frame wait) 5D, for example.

[Afro-Demon]

I think Mu-12 might end up getting as many guard breaks as a lambda. Blue lasers take a primer and they are easy to get on oki. 63214 takes 1 primer uncharged, and apparently 3 if charged.

Also can someone check some thing about her 214D. I think that the amount of hits it has to do with the amount of stones in the steiner. Same thing with that move taking primers.

[Mizzet]

Number of explosion hits/damage from 214d doesn't seem to be affected by the number of stones. I might be wrong, but it looks to me like the stones are simply a visual representation of the order of your primers, from 1-4.

If you cast your first stein, it gains one stone after a second or so and that's that. Cast a second one, your first one gains another stone, so two, and your second one has one stone. Once you have 4 steins out, your first stein will have 4 stones and the rest will be 3,2,1

[DC]

Wait, does firing a laser work off negative edge? (Such that I can buffer D during a combo)

[Afro-Demon]

236D also seems to have a lot of untech-able time if it hits them in air. I'm sure there would be a way to set up combo with it after a 6C if the opponent were high enough.

[Mizzet]

The bouncing laser from 236d is not destroyed if it hits your opponent, if you place your steins well (say, 6d 5d 6d 5d for example), you can get it to bounce back and forth and lock your opponent down pretty well.

You can't place steins with negative edge D, and the laser firing is autonomous and time delayed, basically the stein fires itself.

Also something useful, you don't need to press D a second time to get the follow up, simply hold down your original D press to get the followup ASAP. Example, 5d (hold) accomplishes the same thing as 5dd.

[Afro-Demon]

Does that increase the speed of the move at all? Also, looking a match video showed that 6D is also jump cancellable.

Hey Mizzet, 2 questions. 1. is it possible that say 2DD is also jump cancellable instead of just 2D?

2. Because you say you can only set steins in pairs of 2s, does that make 6D>2DD impossible?

[Overheat]

First question: If you can release lasers in the air, then that could be an answer. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am. As in 2D, jump cancel, release D.

If that's not possible, then you're talking about Mu's releasing laser animation being jump cancelled from the ground. Perhaps someone who has the game could check and see which of her moves are jump cancellable?

[Mizzet]

Actually, it seems like all steins are jump cancellable, either that or the recovery is fast enough that it's hard to tell the difference.

I also have to correct a bit of what I said regarding the stein gattlings. You can gattling any two actions, but the follow up's don't count as one. What this means is you can do things like your example, 6d xx 2dd, I'll give some examples.

5d xx 2d

5dd xx 2d

5dd xx 2dd

5d xx 2dd

You will not be able to do anything with a third stein though, things like 5dd 2dd 4d for example, the 4d won't come out as a gattling and you need to wait for recovery.

JC'able moves are 5a, 6a, 5b, and 2c.

[Afro-Demon]

Actually, it seems like all steins are jump cancellable, either that or the recovery is fast enough that it's hard to tell the difference.

You can gattling any two actions, but the follow up's don't count as one. What this means is you can do things like your example, 6d xx 2dd, I'll give some examples.

5d xx 2d

5dd xx 2d

5dd xx 2dd

5d xx 2dd

Oh dear god. Would the following be possible due to being able to jump cancel her drives? 5DD>2DD>jc>j.DD>j.2DD>jc>j.DD>j.2DD

I remember I saw a laser spammer video at one point, but I don't think he did it to that extent. If this truly works, then I might regret ever facing a Mu online. The yellow lasers basically have no block stun, but if a spam of blue lasers was constant, idk, do you think it would be difficult to get past?

[Mizzet]

Yes, you can do that actually, anything.DD anything.DD JC repeat for two air steins. How effective in an actual match I'm not sure, but it's possible, they all gattling smoothly into each other.

[Afro-Demon]

I know that the yellow laser are highly ineffective for that kind of spam. But blue lasers seem to have the same amount of hit-stun as lambda's drives. Considering they auto aim and don't require anything on your part other than summoning, I would think that most characters besides lambda and hazama would have a hard time against them.

On a side note, don't you think that Mu would get completely thrashed against lambda and hazama only her short to mid-range normals have any speed to them, and I'm sure both characters could counter hit you doing drives on reaction.

[Mizzet]

Some good news also, you can cancel her 6c on block into a stein, I forgot who asked that a page back or so. The only things you can't cancel into a stein are 63214c, 623c, and 6b.

[Afro-Demon]

I asked that. Thanks for confirming. That is going to make her a goddess at mid range zoning. The only real problems now are finding some more reliable setups for combo. Most of her decent combo's form after her 3C, and that isn't exactly the greatest of ranges nor the follow up for the combo.

[Afro-Demon]

Are there any ways to combo after a CH 623C without using meter? A reversal that does crap damage doesn't seem like it would do any good in BB except for the sake of having a reversal. Maybe CH 623C>66>5C>6C>2D>jc>j.C>j.2C>j.DD>j.6DD?

[Mizzet]

Seems like much of her damage potential is unlocked by having steins positioned properly. 6c wallbounce to 214d air combo hurts pretty bad, stuff like 6c into stein xx Yata no Kagami can be followed up with a dash into 5c 2c air combo also, decent damage I guess. Didn't really try out CH 623c much, but I don't think you can do anything after.

[Afro-Demon]

I didn't think so. It seemed like it just hits the opponent to low to combo off of. But we seriously have to find some other way to combo other than getting either a 3C or a lucky CH 5C, otherwise the opponents will literally have the same ease as with CT Hakumen with his lack of mixup. Is is possible to combo off a low j.2C if the opponent is attempting to crouch block?

[Afro-Demon]

Also, what do you mean by 6C wallbounce to 214d air combo? Is that with steins previously set or is that with setting the stein for the 214D mid combo?

[Mizzet]

It's kind of like Noel actually, you can't do much if your opponent isn't crouching. If they are, you can combo into 6c and do a short air combo, or 214d if you have steins placed right for big damage. 2b 3c into 2b relaunch++ nets around 2k? It's a tricky link like Jin's 3c 2b, got to get used to it, Mu uses it a lot. Also her supers are really good I feel, Omohikane hits like a truck, Yata no Kagami likewise if you have steins out, plus you can combo after. I'll try out that j.2c thing when I fire up the ps3 again later.

*6c cancelled into 214d immediately will cause your opponent to bounce back nicely into the explosion, provided the stein was in the right place - that is to say you must already have a stein there, unfortunately. It's not as impractical as it sounds, though, generally your steins will be all over the place, smart horizontal placement can ensure at least one hits. After which you can simply run up, 5c 2c and go crazy.