[CS1] Mu-12 General Discussion Thread

[crazycrackers]

I didn't think so. It seemed like it just hits the opponent to low to combo off of. But we seriously have to find some other way to combo other than getting either a 3C or a lucky CH 5C, otherwise the opponents will literally have the same ease as with CT Hakumen with his lack of mixup. Is is possible to combo off a low j.2C if the opponent is attempting to crouch block?

I'm not 100% sure about this, but if you end a combo with 6c and set up multiple steins, or you're just in the situation where you have multiple steins set up near your opponent, you can PROBABLY 236d, and if he lasers fire enough times you could theoretically have a lot of mixups that are supported by your steins with 236d. I was thinking (though once again, just theory) that you might be able to use an overhead mixup here with 6b as your opponent is forced to block 236d, then if they lasers hit them AFTER 6b is finished (which probably depends on how many steins you have set up) you could then go into 2b>3c>whatever your combo of choice is here. This is just an example out of the large possibility for variety that steins give you, and is just sort of a theoretical example. Not sure if it works, but its the concept I'm talking about here. You also obviously have grab mixups but thats only so usable.

To be completely honest, Mu seems like the character who should be locking her opponent down with proper use of her normals+stein support and thus, be able to punish her opponent's attempts at escaping lockdown. She doesn't exactly seem like the sort of character who has that great of a mixup ability.

I'd like to see her doing things like normals>throw out a stein>more normals>etc and mix up WHEN in her strings she actually throws out a stein and therefore keep her opponent guessing about when they can escape her lockdown. It seems to me like this sort of thing has potential, especially if the corner, IF spaced well since Mu can outpoke her opponents with her heavy normals. When I get my hands on Mu I'd like to experiment with this concept, as well as keeping my opponent in blockstun until a stein I've set up fires its laser, as I throw out another stein AS they are forced to block the laser. I'm sure 214d can be used to continue lockdown as well. I'd love this in the corner.

Also, steins can probably set up for some pretty good tick throws, though I'm not really a big fan of using throws very much.

Sorry for the wall of text lol.

[Overheat]

Okay, here are my thoughts on Mu vs Lambda.

Close range: Mu > Lambda

If you look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNyFo3e6MS8 , the Mu was using her lasers to get in close to Lambda. Unlike Lambda, Mu can't beat an opponent from far away. My guess is that Mu's job is to use her lasers as a cover to get in. Keep in mind that Lambda has a DP, but if she can't use it, I'd rush in with Mu.

Mid range: Mu < Lambda

Whatever Mu can do, Lambda can do better. Not to mention Lambda has 5C and 2147D~C.

Far range: Mu < Lambda

Lambda doesn't need to set things up. She has 214D~C, and 236D~C, as well. Mu has to be very careful when summoning her Steins, so Mu should do it when Lambda is downed. If Mu doesn't, then Lambda could punish Mu's recovery phase with 5D or 4D. Even if it's not a counter hit, it forces Mu to block again.

To me, it seems like this is a game of "Who's First." If Mu can get Lambda in a corner and effectively set up Steins in a safe manner, then Mu has a chance. if not, Lambda can just zone Mu and force her to block.

If anyone disagrees, then we can discuss and come up with a collaborative idea on the match-up.

[Afro-Demon]

Lol yeah. Omohikane does 3k if it's first hit and does 1.5k no matter how many hits in the combo. I would always use that as an ender if possible.

The thing why I say we need to find damaging mixup is because otherwise what's to keep them from block low ALL THE TIME? I know that 6B only leads to 623C without meter, and she doesn't exactly grow meter out of her ass like ragna does. That only leaves a short hopped j.2C and if that can't combo if it hits a crouch opponent, I say it's going to be rather hard for her to get damage without using 50 heat to cancel her 6B. I understand if you hit them crouched you can usually combo to 6c, but if they block crouched it's difficult to get above even rachel tier damage without meter.

Also I've been thinking, maybe 236A can be used as a sort of keepaway strategy. 5DD>236A>copy/pasta until satisfied? It's slow trajectory kinda prevents people from getting in and the arc easily prevents air dashes. Of course characters like lambda/hazama could easily get around this and others obviously have ways around,(nirvana as shield, ara teleport) but I'm sure rushdowns could easily have trouble with this move. Does it have long start-up/recovery?

[Mizzet]

"and if the lasers fire enough times you could theoretically have a lot of mixups that are supported by your steins with 236d"

That works, the 236d laser doesn't get consumed by hitting something, it keeps on going, so if you have your steins set up something like this,

(You) 4 2 (Opponent) 3 1

the laser will basically keep bouncing back and forth locking them down rather well.

*6b also leads to 63214c without meter, 1.7k, not exactly very good, but better than nothing.

[Afro-Demon]

Actually overheat I'd say mid range is around tie. Both have fast moves in that range, lamby relying on drives again and mu with her c moves. A counter on either side equals big damage.

I'd still say lambda has overall advantage though. CH 5D is just too good and her pressure is enough to make anyone cry. Plus she gets meter almost as easily as ragna. I'd say 6:4 lambda adv. This is still all just speculation though. I'm betting within the week we'll find some 6k long range meterless combo with Mu lol.

[Overheat]

Yeah, I was unsure about mid-range. The thing that sealed the deal for me was Lambda's TK feint and 5C. With 50 Heat, Lambda can 5C(8) > 6C > 236B. If it doesn't hit RC to be safe. Lambda's TK feint is unbelievably good.

Lambda's TK's are for mind-games, and the feint is actually an incredibly safe tool. I'll post some links in 5 min.

If not for Lambda's TK feint, it would definitely be around even.

[Afro-Demon]

Oh I know of it's milky goodness. I do play lambda myself. Its just that Mu's 5C is faster than lambda's 5C and has more range than lambda's 2C. But Lambda's 5D is just good at any range. Heck, if the sprite is tall enough, i can go for 6D to jump cancel for further shenanigans. But then there's the fact that mu's 6c is safe no matter what lambda does. It's all very ambiguous at the moment, but I'm sure time will tell the match. I'm only doing theory fighter myself.

[Antihippy]

236B is pretty safe btw. 0 on block. You don't need RC to make it safe, though you can RC to put yourself in advantage and apply pressure.

Unless I'm misreading your post.

[Overheat]

Wow, I didn't know it was that safe. I thought it was like Tager's Sledge.

Well, in the Lambda vs Mu video, what is the command for Mu's kick at 0:37? It's after she crouching jabs 4 times. It looks exactly like Lambda's 6B, but Kurushii lists 6B as a move with 2 hits.

Just wait a few more minutes XD I'm trying to find the videos.

[Afro-Demon]

Yeah 236B is amazing...until it gets predictable. If anyone IB's that I can expect to lose 4k of health unless I'm fighting a rachel or they didn't expect the IB themselves. If only lambda's jab had faster start-up I would abuse 236B for all its worth. It's all RPS at mid range with these two. So far I see it come down to who is more predictable.

[Antihippy]

Yeah, it's not as retardedly bad as tager's sledges.

Though tager's sledges are actually pretty good on block too, so...

Yeah 236B is amazing...until it gets predictable. If anyone IB's that I can expect to lose 4k of health unless I'm fighting a rachel or they didn't expect the IB themselves. If only lambda's jab had faster start-up I would abuse 236B for all its worth. It's all RPS at mid range with these two. So far I see it come down to who is more predictable.

I dunno, I can see lambda giving alot of problems if Mu haven't got any stein set up, but once she does it could give lambda's zoning games some problem.

6C also seems to be a decent enough poke against lambda, though is it cancellable on block? I think you can cancel to D's on hit but on block I dunno.

[Mizzet]

Well, in the Lambda vs Mu video, what is the command for Mu's kick at 0:37? It's after she crouching jabs 4 times. It looks exactly like Lambda's 6B, but Kurushii lists 6B as a move with 2 hits.

That's her 5b.

[Overheat]

I meant it's easy to IB Tager's Sledge. At least Lambda has 3 choices XD

lol, so Mu's 5B is Lambda's 6B.

Here is my choice example. Not of 5C, but of TK feints. Look at what a good Lambda can do. (I know it's CT, but the only difference is 5D is not jump cancellable and 2C isn't as good as it was, although it's still useful) Lambda can do 6A or 6B in place of 2C, although all work very well. Even on neutral, 2147D~C can be good.

I'm making this Unlisted soon, so hurry up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9scGxll7AU

[Afro-Demon]

@Overhear Idk, it might just be her 5B.

Anyway, do you guys think that 5DD>236A>copy/pasta would be a good keep away tactic against RTSD's? I think it has potential, especially against ragna.

[Afro-Demon]

Also Overheat, I'm not sure if any good lambda uses 2C as an AA anymore, but they use it a lot after 5CxN to get a jump cancel to TK crescent/3C/236A mix up bs. 6A however, has become a rather decent AA.

[Overheat]

2C is still OK. 6A is a better option, but in block-strings Lambda can use 6A/6B/2C safely. 6A was underrated in CT

5B > 6A > 6B > 2C

All are jump cancellable. TK feint on one of those and do crazy mix-up.

Look at my match with Lacrois, and here's another link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnL5u_jR1A

The point is that 6B and 2C push your opponent far enough to be in that lethal TK zone of Lambda.

[Afro-Demon]

@Technically yes anti-hippy, it is decently safe. It has a decent amount of block stun plus you can cancel into 2D>jc even on block. so even if lamby does block her 6C she is in stun for a bit and mu gets a stein out.

[Antihippy]

6A was always a decent air.

Does Mu's 6A have the same properties? Head invincibility?

[Overheat]

Guys! Make sure to look!

Pulsr vs Xie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnL5u_jR1A

Lacrois vs me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9scGxll7AU

Antihippy, I'd assume so. Mu's 5B and Lambda's 6B are both jump cancellable, so their 6A's are probably the same as well.

[Afro-Demon]

That's true overheat. Idk, maybe I'm just a little skiddish of Mu's 6C. It's ridiculously safe, can net you a stein even on block, and if it's a CH it leads to about 4k plus oki with 3-4 steins. Lambda doesn't have great wake-up and having 3-4 steiners locked on your position doesn't help turn a match around from there.

[PhoenonX]

I don't think Mu can really outzone lambda, however she does have the tools to rush her down, Mu is much more up-close compared to Lambchop, and if she gets a knockdown she can place a Steiner for a great Oki game against her.

[Afro-Demon]

No i wasn't expecting to outzone lambda. But the middle ground between is really iffy to me. either side lands a CH and there is going to be pain.

[Afro-Demon]

Hmm, I've been trying to think up ways to combo off her 236D, and I think I might have one. All just theory fighter again, but this sounds realistic due to the lack of frames in all parts of her drives.

2B>3C>6D>2B>5C>6C>236D>j.C>j.2C>j.DD>j.2DD

you would cancel the 3C with your lagless drive, get in your normal combo until you hit 6C that you will cancel with 236D. That should net her 3k and oki with 4 steins, 2 blue lasers.

[PhoenonX]

So I'm guessing Mu is going to have to play a lot of footsies against Lambda then.

Lambda has a lot more tools than Mu as far as I can tell, but Mu's DD's are a lot better than Lambchop's. So far Lambda's combos do a bit more damage than what Mu can do right now, however Mu hasn't even been played for even half a week so I'm sure someone will come up with something good.

Does anyone know if there are any good Mid-screen combos with Mu as well? It seems like all her good combos are corner loops into DD's.

[Antihippy]

Is her drive really that lagless? Seems to have some lag.