Ouroboros Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 To add to that, use 5C instead of 5B at the beginning. It pushes the enemy further from you, making you able to do the 4D~A and then Jakou.
Platinum_Tager Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Got a couple of quick questions. 1. When I'm doing the combo. BnB ->623D->RC->6D~D->5C->2C->4D~A (this is where it messes up) I can never get it to stay red beat when going for the Second 4D~A... is this just proration or my timing? Should I just go straight into 4D~D (etc etc forgot the annotation for the rest of the bnb j.C thing)? 2. What is Haz's best wake up option for the rushdown chars in general with no heat? Just blocking or does 236D have I-frames i can exploit just to mix it up? Or just stick to blocking? I usually try to hit 2a on wakeup but that leads me to getting counter hit a lot 3. How safe is throw cancelling after a blocked chain? Like maybe to bait something? Should I just never go in on a blocked chain or is it worth the risk if I do it right (like going into a command throw or something? Thanks in advance
Maker Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 1. When I'm doing the combo. BnB ->623D->RC->6D~D->5C->2C->4D~A (this is where it messes up) I can never get it to stay red beat when going for the Second 4D~A... is this just proration or my timing? Should I just go straight into 4D~D (etc etc forgot the annotation for the rest of the bnb j.C thing)? From what I've noticed after an RC the recovery time for anything is less. So from the 4D~A to the next 4D making contact is probably just inside recovery time. Id stick to the first one just to make it easier to deal with in a match. Keep in mind i dont eat and sleep frame data so it could be technically possible, if so its probaby really tight.
kazukifafner Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 2. What is Haz's best wake up option for the rushdown chars in general with no heat? Just blocking or does 236D have I-frames i can exploit just to mix it up? Or just stick to blocking? I usually try to hit 2a on wakeup but that leads me to getting counter hit a lot Definitely blocking. Just make sure to watch for throws. 3. How safe is throw cancelling after a blocked chain? Like maybe to bait something? Should I just never go in on a blocked chain or is it worth the risk if I do it right (like going into a command throw or something? Typically, if you they block your chain, and you press A to bring it back, you're safe. There are times when pulling it back in can lead to you getting hit, but not a lot.
Dusty Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 sorry if this question has been asked somewhere before but how do you continue to keep pressure with Haz after a BnB if they tech roll backwards? i tried dash forward to stay in there face but i usually end up getting hit becasue i have to dash more than once. and i tired using various chains (blocked B follow up, whiff chain follow up) but i always get counted so i stopped and now they just get away from me
Ouroboros Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Yeah, we've talked about this a couple of times. Dash obviously doesn't work. What I do when this happens is simply 5D~D > something to hit them and keep pressure going, they will be forced to block unless they use some random DP or 5A on wake up. I would not recommend it if you kind of know they are going to do this, just wait for the next opening... I guess.
Maker Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Ouro brings up an excellent point. Ive played some guys who use DP's on see ing your chain connect, this is actually REALLY good for you. if you KNOW they are going into an invincible move. Throw out your 5D, heres why. Even vs Daifunka at a pretty good distance you have two approaches everyone forgets about. C which lands you in prime combo range, and B which grants you a decent ammount of away time. Essentially bait their recovery from your pressure and then re apply. I mention this after realizing ive done it to bursting opponents several times, in combo i 6D~A a noel who then bursts, i wait a few frames then 6D~A, 623D her and get a free combo reset. Things like this happen especially when your opponent thinks your going to close fore added damage. Ive done similar things to jins who mistake me for closing 623C or D and get destroyed afterward with a throw cancel Houtenjin. You just gotta be sneaky about it. I feel the need to re-establish that im no pro and that these are situational at best but manipulating others invincible moves using Hazamas drive has netted me wins before. Use as your discresion. [Edit] That said im going to test some of this out so theres no confusion. Ok from the expiermenting. for whatever reason a properly timed 5D~C dodges Daifunka, thats what led me to believe that the move might have had invinciblity somehwere, naturally it does not. (thank you frame chart and Jin super). As for the invincibility frames of the enemy the ouroborus will go clean through them giving you unique combo opportunities if your setup properly. If you didn't need the ouroborus stock then you were too close . From teh roll back distance you specifically asked about your in pretty much the murky zone. j.6D, or 5D and fishing are your best options for that partiuclar distance. Atleast in my opinion. /Edit/ Guys im still having problems with the 66, 3C, Houtenjin link AGAIN its on the left side, thought id left his far behind but it seems to emerge randomly in my gaming. Is there any actual technique i can use that will help with this or am i doomed to stare at the training mode for weeks? Atleast now I have a surgically accurate explination for this current problem. When coming off the 623D I sometimes whff teh dash, thats cool i suck no big deal. But for whatever reason i do not get the timing between the dash and the 3C, thats what makes the Houtenjin easy to pull off after the 3C. If your spacing is screwed between the 66, 3C then theres no houtenjin and your burning bar for no reason. Its all a spacing issue but I cannot for the life of me regulate it. And to date nothing has really quelled this problem. It seems the more I try the more resistance im met with 6653C inputs have helped slightly but only in delaying my input on purpose so i have to do that lightning fast. I dont mean to make terribly long questions or complaints but im at witts end after 2 hours of this and only having 3 houtenjins connect (one of which i got angry and buffered from 3c as a 720B and it worked).
$tranger Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 Hey everyone, I'm having problems with this BnB: 5B > 3C > 214D~C > (Dash) 5C > (JC) [j.C x 5] > (Land) 2C > 4D~D > j.214B# the 4D~D always goes blue when I do it - am I just too slow or is it a spacing matter?
Maker Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 Hitting 4D when the 2C hits is pretty much as good as it gets for that combo.
kazukifafner Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 If you are doing it fast enough, it should work. However, that particular combo only works as long as there are no more than 2 hits before the 214D~C (5C only counts as "one hit", even if both hits connect). All this really means is that if you are trying this combo after a chain hit, then it will bluebeat.
Keo-bas Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 right now I think my haza is developing quite well. But one trick I really want to get proficient in is Hazama barrier dash cancel. Reason i like barrier is because I can jump cancel. Ive manage several times to implement this which is nice for his TK 214C or simply air footsie. what oroborus cancel do you guys like to use for fishing counters? Personally ive been canceling into serpent extenions to fish for counters.
jellotek Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 So about that backwards tech roll... It seems silly to base anything off of Buppa's matches since we're all sane and human, but I've seem him dash into 3C. It doesn't give you many options after that though. Would dash 214D~A work?
Arifureta Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 I do it all the time. :V On hit, you get to go into 214D~C straight to BnB. If they don't roll, you're pretty much stuffed. It's a high risk high reward move. Or relatively high reward I guess.
Fireryda Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Are you sure? Doesn't hitting them while they're back rolling make them go airborne at which point 3c has like no untechable time?
Eclipse Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Yeah, I'd assume the same thing Fireryda, which is one reason I tend to follow up back rolls with 2A > 5C > etc...
Arifureta Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I dunno. It works for me. :V Though I think what's happening is I'm catching them at the end of the roll and they're just not blocking at all at that point.
Yukikaze Posted August 30, 2010 Posted August 30, 2010 Can someone give me some tips for the jC x5? I just cant do the challenge mode combos, I either jc 1 hit too early or 1 too late. It seems to me you can get more than 5 cus Iv managed 16 hits of challenge #3 but my jc wasnt in the right place.
Big Red Tie Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 idk if this is known, but RCing mizuchi at certain points fucks up the graphic and makes it keep going. you can get either swirly blue stuff or a huge black cloud with red energy flying out of him forever
nstalkie Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 idk if this is known, but RCing mizuchi at certain points fucks up the graphic and makes it keep going. you can get either swirly blue stuff or a huge black cloud with red energy flying out of him forever I think this is one of the things fixed in the 1.02 patch.
PornoRaptor Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 After 623D, how do I dash and use 3C to hit them? In order to pull off this combo successfully, they must be high enough for 623D's range. And once again, this is easier on larger characters like Tager thanks to his massive hitbox. The difference between this link that makes it harder than other, is that they must be close enough to you after 623D for your Dash 3C to hit them. This can be solved by placing them near the corner, or preferably hitting them when Jakou is not fully extended horizontally. Ideally, you want a range that is high up, but not far away from you. You can also buffer the dash from 623D's ending animation, by pressing forward once at the end of the animation, and once again as it ends. This will let you dash early, and makes connecting 3C much easier. The key is muscle memory. The double Jayoku combo is giving me an aneurysm. Unfortunately this section still leaves me with questions. I've tried a few variations and this is what I seem to be getting: 1) They tech before (dash) 3c can hit. 2) I hit the (dash) 3c and Jayoku whiffs. 3) I have yet in my hours of training mode been able to connect this!!! From watching numerious videos of Buppa and Zakiyama and finding when they preform this combo. I've figured that it must be the placment of my opponent before 623d hits that's screwing me. This is what I believe the proper spacing should be: ------------------------- --------------X---------- They should be full screen height and above me ---------------\--------- at about a 60 degree angle. Is this Correct? ------------------------- --------O/--------------- <- Heat Bar Height --------|---------------- I know about buffering dashes and all of that so I know it's not my dash being late that's getting me. I don't know what else to do. Please those more knowledgeable then me help a noob out. EDIT: Here is what I'd like to know... What are the variables involved with 623d that control, 1) landing distance from Hazama, 2) frame advantage/disadvantage upon landing
Zidane Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 It's somewhat character dependant; i've found that as long as the 3C connects, Hotenjin will hit Litchi no matter what. Yet unless you're pretty close, it'll whiff Hakumen. Not to mention after 3C, you might wanna wait a little bit for their falling horizontal hitbox to get bigger so Hotenjin can hit them. On the flip side, if you wait too long sometimes they're already hitting the ground. I've tested it and to get an idea of the height, Hotenjin -> backdash -> 623D ( as long as it doesn't hit when the tip closes ), 66 3C Hotenjin works on everyone ( couldn't test on Mu or Valk but sure it works on Mu ). I don't know why specifically you want to practice double Hotenjin combos since it costs 100% though. Throw combos into 623D, 66 3C Hotenjin do 5K, cost 50% and net you 50% by the time the combo is done.
kazukifafner Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Well, from my experience: More vertical height on the 623D = longer tech time/more time to dash 3C More horizontal distance between you and opponent = they are closer to you after the 623D finishes So basically, you want to strike a good balance between those two factors and you should find yourself having less and less trouble with the link(s).
HypothermiaFML Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 I read all 15 pages just now my head hurts wtf!!! I luv u guys but haz more!!!
PornoRaptor Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 @Zidane and Kazukifafner Thanks guys I've given your advice a try and it works well. Also yeah the damage is awesome from a double jayoku combo but it's is rarely used in real play. One is amost always more than enough. I'm just one of those guys who wants to be able to do the hardest thing possible with any character and this seems to be hazama's "BIG THING" so that's why I was wondering. Thanks again!
advancedNoob Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 1) So how do you use 5A and 2A as anti-air? Sometimes it works, sometimes I get hit... What's the general rule for this? 2) I see that some people charge 214D~C (until blue shadow motion) after 3C. Is there an advantage to this? I normally just go for straight 214D~C without charge. If I recall correctly damage is the same on charged and non-charged 214D. 3) I'm practicing this combo atm: forward throw 6D~A 66 6D~A 66 3C dist. Part I have underlined is what I have problem with, is there a trick that can help me execute this (besides muscle memory)?
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