Zappa Love: Series Renovation. AC Edition!!!!

[Oiboi]

Well you play pot now, so I wouldn't be surprised if you did.

[HellSap]

I don't post because by the time I see the thread and think to chime in, someone's already taken care of it!! ALL I DO IS RANDOM SUMMON AHRGHDAGADVbz1!11

[Zoogstin]

Well its atleast good to know that you're out there.

[HellSap]

Yeah, I was interested in seeing that one regional Zappa picture thing that we were going to copy from the Bridget forums. But that never came about. Oh well. Maybe I should start posting more, lurking less. I just don't know how practical my advice is, either way.

[Dangief]

Because I never got around to it. And never figured out where everyone is. Actually thanks for reminding me. I'll try to get on that. new thread for that project though, no more cluttering up the strategy forum. Expect deletes to come soon.

[Oiboi]

Goddammit Hellsap, you're new sig made me laugh way too hard. IT'S NOT EVEN THAT FUNNY. Anyways, some strategy shenanigans: I've been playing with my dog more again, instead of just doing the basic setups (5D poke strings, 2D traps, etc...). Example, Zappa get's good in the air with the dog for a few key reasons: Air FD blocks everything except unblockables, and no unblockable reaches that high, and Air FD 5D beats everything hands down (except heat fist, but why get in the air against pot when you can just cheese him with the dog, right?). Another reason is because if they try to jump up to combat you in the air, you can evade and attack at the same time with 8D. Mix this with 5D pressure and you can start doing j.K j.S or j.P spam, 2K 4D D mixups. However, getting into the air is still a situational tactic; if the enemy is strong versus anti-air (not just character wise, but the player themselves are particularly good at anti-airing) then this is a relatively difficult tactic to use. This is because Zappa's air normals are nothing special, with the exception of j.HS, which is a super situational move all it's own. Still, you can use crossover tricks and pushback to stick them right into a 2D, or use 4D-D mixups again. I've also been thinking about working on a 'how-to' guide for using the dog. If I do, I'll add it to my 'advanced' zappa thread and we can go crazy shenanigans discussion there. But for now, let's discuss it here since it's more Zappa strats anyways.

[Umareru]

Hey guys, i'm having alittle trouble doing the instant raou summon. What i'm doing is: 2P>2K> Summon(RC)> dash> c.S> Summon (RC) >dash> c.S Summon My combo usually drops on the second loop. I'm just not dashing fast enough, i guess. I noticed here it says 'Dash must be primed before RC." What does that mean? Sorry and thanks, i can do most other zappa combos, weird that the most textbook one is the one i left till last to learn.

[Phrekwenci]

It's better if you use 2D before the first summon to get them a little more airborne. I also use 5P to juggle because you'll be using P to command the summon anyway. Just have to be careful not to 6P instead, which is easy to do in a dash.

[Zoogstin]

Yeah 5P instead of cS is usally better because its faster and has more range. Prime before the RC pretty much means you need to do 6 RC 6. if you can't grab this concept them just concentrate on dashing sooner than you think.your dash input and the RC will occur almost as one input lol.

[Oiboi]

It depends on character weight also... 5P works on everyone, but light characters are very difficult to time the summon to hit afterwards. c.S works great for heavy characters, and does more damage than 5P, but timing is more difficult. 2HS works on light characters for max damage, but on even slightly heavier than average characters are nearly impossible to get it on. Example combos: On Pot, whatever into 2D summon RC 66 c.S Summon RC 66 6P (this is because he drops too low; f.S will work sometimes as well, particularly in corner, if c.S doesn't come out) Summon Edguy. On some characters, like Ky, c.S is necessary because of the weird weight and hitboxes. i.e. 2D summon RC 66 c.S Summon RC will hit while 5P or 2HS won't because, despite appearances, he hits the ground too fast for 2HS and 5P will knock them up too high. The only real trick to the instant Raoh combo is timing and understanding character weights, and just changing the intermediary move as necessary (generally only 5P, c.S, and 2HS, 6P only works on Pot as far as I know).

[Umareru]

Ah, yeah i was training on Potemkin because i had the feeling that he might be the easiest to juggle. Too bad i still failed with all the juggle moves Start with a 2D huh... sounds good. I'll try that tomorrow. I was having problems with doing 5p cos yeah, i always messed up and did 6p instead. But thats just 'cos my arcade sticking is the worst ever. Thanks for all the advice everyone!

[Phrekwenci]

If you're really slick, you'll do it with just the summon! (2D summon 6 RC 6 summon 6 RC 6 summon!) Extra hard.

[Oiboi]

If you're really slick, you'll do it with just the summon! (2D summon 6 RC 6 summon 6 RC 6 summon!) Extra hard.

Doesn't that only work on super light characters? Like bridget?

[4Corners]

I'm not running around collecting them. Generally, after the D toss the K ghost doesn't normally hit the opponent, and I'll grab that ghost and use it for cover while I block string the opponent as I grab the others (5P, 5P, 5P, 5P, 5P, 5P, 2K, 5S...).

I don't worry about when I get the ghost after they all disappear. I have some pretty good moves in my arsenal even without the ghosts (P, K, D) and if for some reason all of the ghosts connect quickly after the D toss (opponent is too close), I unsummon and get something new. I got 3 orbs for the connect, and can get another 3 after the next summon.

Does anyone else find Phrekwenci caring about orbs ironic? For 25% tension, you're that much closer to unsummoning Raoh!

[Phrekwenci]

Doesn't that only work on super light characters? Like bridget?

Tell you the truth, the last time I did it, it was #R. I'll have to give my reflexes a shot next time I'm on the game.

Does anyone else find Phrekwenci caring about orbs ironic? For 25% tension, you're that much closer to unsummoning Raoh!

Wow damn, good catch. I guess I was trying to sell the idea of throwing all 3 ghosts and unsummoning->resummoning. You're right, I don't care about orbs. I care about dog loops.

Hmm, dog loops - that gives me an idea for a cereal box photoshop.

[4Corners]

Ohsnaps. It's actually a really good idea. 3-7 orbs, for 25% tension? Nice.

[Phrekwenci]

Ohsnaps.

It's actually a really good idea. 3-7 orbs, for 25% tension? Nice.

Yea, you just have to remember the hits aren't guaranteed. Certainly you could do some mixup/wakeup work to accomplish this though. Maybe like 6P, 2S, 2D, 236D, wait for tech and as they land, 6P (block or hit), 214D (hit, since they'll probably try to block everything low), 66 236P.

[4Corners]

Excellent. Hey, has anyone else noticed a MASSIVE momentum boost when doing 236p from a dash? Like, he rockets, or seems to, to me. I'll have a buncha matches of me and some friends up. Didn't get any matches against the really good CO players, but these should work enough to help me learn how to play. At least v the Baiken and Slayer. Look for a thread with them in the next couple days.

[Oiboi]

Excellent.

Hey, has anyone else noticed a MASSIVE momentum boost when doing 236p from a dash? Like, he rockets, or seems to, to me.

I'll have a buncha matches of me and some friends up. Didn't get any matches against the really good CO players, but these should work enough to help me learn how to play. At least v the Baiken and Slayer. Look for a thread with them in the next couple days.

Momentum summon? Like doing 66236P as fast as possible? Or from a dash in general? It's the way the animation system works, since he's not technically stopping his dash it takes longer for him to actually slow down, so it looks like he's going faster when it's just magical invul frames lol. By the way, momentum dashing from a standing position will mess many slayers up (especially those who 2HS predictably).

You don't need to start a new thread, just put them in the video critique thread, since it's sounding like you want critique anyways. Show us what you got.

[4Corners]

I think it might be the as fast as possible thing. I dunno, I go flying at them with a summon centipede covering my ass. As is, because of SSBM, I end up putting things in way faster than I should, I think. I don't prime any of my dashes for anything so far, but I can still do most the stuff that tells me to dash prime. EDIT: I'll post the vids in the critique thread as soon as I get them. Thanks!

[Dangief]

Just remember, a dashing summon leaves you right next to them if they block as well. It's risky.

[Zeero]

theres a difference between doing 66236P and 2366P 66236P will send you flying and takes longer to summon 2366P will only move you forward a bit and much faster to summon so if you're going for OTG summons for not too far knockdowns, its better to do 2366P. 66236P will work sometimes if you're fast enough but definately more risky. random info =)

[4Corners]

Nice info. Thanks.

[Valentine]

I've been playing Zappa for awhile, but I haven't really advanced much past the level of scrub. The biggest problems I have, and I know these are gonna sound so bad, are: 1) I can't find a way to punish VV effectively. My main competition is a Sol player and a Millia player. 2) It irritates me to all hell that the ghosts and sword don't "keep up" with Zappa when he's running and air dashing. Is there a way to make their slowness a plus rather than an irritation? 3) I have a hard time closing in on people with Raoh. His mixup is terrible to me. 4) I hate Wild Throw, need help defending against it when I'm in the corner. I know these are all the easiest problems in the world, but one step at a time, right?

[Zoogstin]

I've been playing Zappa for awhile, but I haven't really advanced much past the level of scrub. The biggest problems I have, and I know these are gonna sound so bad, are:

1) I can't find a way to punish VV effectively. My main competition is a Sol player and a Millia player.

2) It irritates me to all hell that the ghosts and sword don't "keep up" with Zappa when he's running and air dashing. Is there a way to make their slowness a plus rather than an irritation?

3) I have a hard time closing in on people with Raoh. His mixup is terrible to me.

4) I hate Wild Throw, need help defending against it when I'm in the corner.

I know these are all the easiest problems in the world, but one step at a time, right?

1. If you block VV I don't see how run up 2K into combo is a problem. Are you saying that you aren't able to reach him in time to punish or you just can't get a decent combo on him. Even if you Faultless defence the VV you should still be able to run up and punish him easily. I don't have much experience to against Millia. maybe someone else can help you.

2. There have been some weird times where the crappy position of the ghosts and sword have saved my life, but I think that's only when I was falling from a really high spot and the sword or ghosts were way over my head. But I don't think there's much benefit to them being 50ft behind you when the opponent is right in front of you. But the best way to prevent this scenario from screwing your over is mash p (since it combos into itself when you have the ghosts or sword) until the sword/ghosts are close enough to follow through. This is seriously probably your best approach. Its works very nicely.

3. Raoh takes patients. Especially against people who know what they're doing. Sorry to say but there will be times when running in on the opponent will be impossible. If you can't get in on them then all you can do is poke at a distance with his fireballs, fS, 5HS, and 6HS. And thats all you can do until you get a hit. And yes Raoh's mixup game is not impressive by any means. But because its Raoh people will mess up regardless. If you're on top of your opponent 2S 66 2S 66 2S is good because then you can throw in a 5D for a mixup. Another thing you can do is run up throw. That's about it. =/ You have to fish for pokes and react from there. If you can force your opponent to jump then you're in good business. =)

4. Jump is your best option. Practice 1 frame jumping as well. 1-frame jumping is jumping and then Fautless defencing on the first frame of your jump. Jumping has startup so FDing during this will cancel the startup and you'll jump immediately. Its easier to do if you super jump. You just have to predict when wild throw is coming pretty much. But just a heads ups: with the sword your uppercut 623HS and your 5D have throw invincible frames. Those are your 3 options.