[CS1] Makoto vs. Ragna

[AndyG]

No, getting grabbed out of parry is techable.

[Yggjrasil]

he meant 3C

yes i did mean 3c my bad, and yeah you'd have to have some good reflexes to jump cancel every time you see a low coming, and like TyrantRevolver said, If you're gonna use the parry, try tricking Ragna into it so that he'll fear approaching you. You might need to use some Hakumen tactics for this though...

[Nobus3r1]

From a match I pulled off of PSN it looks like J2C clashes with Inferno Divider. Might be useful regarding aerial approaches.

[Jourdal]

From a match I pulled off of PSN it looks like J2C clashes with Inferno Divider. Might be useful regarding aerial approaches.

Yeah but iirc you can do the ID again and i think she's still in the J.2C animation not sure..the clashing didn't occur often.

[MisterBadguy]

ID also beats Squirrelryuken pretty clean too, so it's hardly an optimal trade, even after clash.

The best place I could possibly think to parry during pressure is during 6b, but that might even require an IB. Anyone willing to test it out? I have to admit, the only parries I attempt at this point are during Space Loop.

[Halcyone3]

ID also beats Squirrelryuken pretty clean too, so it's hardly an optimal trade, even after clash.

The best place I could possibly think to parry during pressure is during 6b, but that might even require an IB. Anyone willing to test it out? I have to admit, the only parries I attempt at this point are during Space Loop.

u shouldn't need to IB. Though i personally don't parry much vs ragnas, i get too panicky when they start pressuring me x.x

[SolAscension]

5B destroys me, ; ;

[excelence]

If 5b destroy you, play aerial games, instant air dash j.CC destroy his 5b

[OmniSScythe]

No, do not jump in on Ragna unless it's a empty jump. Your go to for 5B is either patience or parry which for me personally is probably the easiest thing to parry on reaction. 3C is possible on prediction but they have to be really obvious.

[excelence]

Err yeah ... sorry if i didn't make clear that statement, Iad j.CC beat Ragna 5B on guessing games and net you fat combos, but generally jumping in on him is dangerous (6a LOL), and also Omni was right 5b is one of his tool that easiest to parry, well his 5b is annoying but i'll not give too much credit to that moves, with a little guessing games and parry on reaction, he'll learn that spamming Jesus Kick can make him dying ... and 3Cing his 5b has a huge risk if you missed the timing (2c fatal), so i'll not recommend that moves

[seyu]

on 3Cing 5B:

a lot of people throw 5b out after a j.C missed, even the supposedly "good" players. so whenever hes above you 3C might be a good idea, since it also crosses up

[Yukikaze]

Someone give me a basic guide to this match.

It just seems to me 5B and Inferno used well, beat everything I do. That coupled with Raggys 2k-3k very basic combos means Its over within a few counter hits.

[DJHUOSHEN]

Control distance. Tempt 6As with IADs and counter them with j2Cs. Parry is effective if you think he'll dash 5B/5C for a poke.

If he jump cancels for pressure, DP or 6A (and pray 6A works lol). That or parry. Parry is effective, because you can then cancel to an air juggle combo once movements returns after parry stun (air parries are air untechable if I remember correctly).

Nothing too uniquely special. Work that defense and IBing.

[Nini Heart]

Hard matchup. I recently played 60 games vs a really good Ragna.

His 5B eats your pokes except 3C for free and can anti air when well spaced.

His 5a stuff your jumpins on reaction and he can follow up with 5D>Ragna bullshit.

It doesn't help that he totally outranges you and that Makoto has to basically be at point blank range to do some damage.

His JC beats your JC but loses to J.B when you're at a lower angle. J2C is a god send in this match, beats all his anti air options except ID, which it sometimes clashes with.

3C is not recommended here randomly(when is it ever:v:?), as you're gonna get 2C Fatal'ed into 4k+ combo. It's ok to use it when he's in the air though as it beats JC and JB but loses to his JD. Plus, the crossdown is smexxy:keke:

He can DP out of J.D > 6B> 236A so start baiting that if he becomes wise to it.

Run when he is in blood kain. Seriously. You can't hit him out of his JDs or 6Ds no matter what you try. DP and Parry work though.

Last but not least, learn to block, DP, and parry out of his pressure. This is the most important.

*Needs to learn how to block, DP, and parry out of ragna pressure. Shit is insane:v:

Also don't get thrown unless you have a burst or he has less than 50% meter or that B.K combo is gonna rape you real bad.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Nini Heart

[Nini Heart]

Revised opinion now that I can actually play the game. Even matchup at worst, in our favor at best. Ragna needs 3 good openings to finish you. You only need 2. And you have better tools to obtain those.

Ragna's pretty straightforward once you figure out all his tricks. The only thing that makes this matchup even for Ragna is his I.D. You can't pressure him like you can pressure other characters. Respect dat I.D. He can I.D. anything you throw after 5CC. 214A~B however will only get him one hit of the I.D, so he can't follow up. My hardest times against him were the I.D happy Ragnas, cause I don't respect that shit.

Learn when he can throw his overhead and be ready to react to that shit. In a lot of circumstances, you can DP out of the overhead into combo if you're expecting it.

I don't like 6A in this matchup, Ragnas like crossing up and it's recovery is so bad that they can cross up, land and start a combo with 5b>4k.

J.2C still a godsend. J.B is a good anti air vs Ragz too.

[OmniSScythe]

MATCH-UP STRATEGY!

First off Ragna's meter gain is just as good as yours, expect RC on unsafe moves and respect his ID.

Mid-screen: He can poke you with 5B/5C but he can't get any real damage unless it's counter hit and hit confirms it (or spends 50 heat which he most likely will). At this range you can either poke back him with 2A or 6C which even on trade is in your favor since it pushes toward the corner.

Don't use break shot at mid-range, instead just plant cosmic cannon as it can help stuff jump ins and pokes. You can also parry if he gets to predictable with 5B.

Close-range:

On offense this is where you want to be at all times, avoid doing her BnB as a block string (2A>5B>5CC>6B) 5CC is the universal language of "Inferno divider me". Instead, end your blockstring short like if you want an overhead do something like "2B > 6A > 6B" "2A > 6B" "j.CC > 6B" or heck just run up and 6B, it's really fast when it isn't being way to obvious. AV seems gimmicky on paper but it's actually legit, it's easier to use when your not using the same blockstring religiously. When you do find yourself using 5CC try staggering it and using AV B Barrier (214B > barrier) to avoid and punish any ID especially when it's IB'd.

On defense it's good to know the options (the good ones) he can have during any move, for an example.

Ragna's 2B:

2B > 6B(overhead)

2B > 5C

2B > 2C(can fatal and is safe)

2B > 3C (another low)

2B > 214B (overhead) 214D(second part, is very common to see a rapid off this)

One small note beforehand, Ragna's 2B is probably the worst move he has, it's unsafe even on normal block to our DP and PF if he tries to follow up on it.

His mix-up isn't too much to worry about, react to him trying to restart his blockstring and don't push buttons without a reason.

If Ragna is in the air he can use j.C as a long range poke to avoid her 6A, dash 6A to take care of that. Another move is his j.B, it's has a ton of active frames and works well as a cross up. If he tries to jump cancel his j.B into another from the other side you can buffer the parry from the right direction so if he doesn't cross up you can 6A and if does then just parry it for a good amount of damage. Another option is to reversal input her DP but I rather for the save option.

Things to look out for (gimmicks):

Ragna's cross up ID, basically he does 3C, IAD over your head and ID D version. Lucky for Makoto doing the parry motion beats it clean with either a block or her parry. doing your own 3C also avoids this but who wants to give up free damage?

Air inferno divider against your anti-air, basically use 6A on reaction.

Situational/Variant combos:

Parried j.B: 5A/2A or Dash 5A/2A > 5B > 2D(1) > 5CC > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6200+)

Forward grab: B+C > 214A~A > 5CC > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6000+)

CH 6C: CH 6C > 214A~A > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6500+)

Inferno divider punish: CH 5C > 2C > 2D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214C~D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214B~D(3) > 6A > 5D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > j7.D > 2366A~D(3) > 632146D(3) (7300+)

Edited December 23, 2010 by OmniSScythe

[HiagoX]

Just adding something here, but if Ragna does a jump-in j.C and you feel like you won't be able to 6A in time, just parry it. Those jump-ins are rather easy to parry, mostly;

[LKOD]

question : if you do 3C and ragna do 5D both in normal and Bloodkain mode .... who will win ? ....... and can parry protect you from low moves like 2B 2D..etc..... cause i was thinking to use parry all the time instead of block

Edited December 23, 2010 by LKOD

[darkblade77]

Don't ever use 3C against Ragna 5D. The only time it'll even connect is if the Ragna starts it up right as your 3C is going active, which means he has to pretty much give it to you. Just about every other time 5D will beat 3C clean.

3C goes under Ragna 5B, but if you're too close or do it too late he can just follow it up before 3C goes active for a free combo. It flat out beats Hell's Fang. I wouldn't try actively using it on anything else.

Parry doesn't work against lows.

[LKOD]

so if i dash then he does 5B ....if i go under with 3C then he does 5D...is there a way to get close to him ?....or should i wait for him to attack first and punish ?........

Off topic : is there strategy to play against Unl Ragna with makoto ?....every time i fight him in rank match or against my cousin.....i lost in 20 s cause every combo he does 6k damg (

Edited December 24, 2010 by LKOD

[OmniSScythe]

so if i dash then he does 5B ....if i go under with 3C then he does 5D...is there a way to get close to him ?....or should i wait for him to attack first and punish ?........

Off topic : is there strategy to play against Unl Ragna with makoto ?....every time i fight him in rank match or against my cousin.....i lost in 20 s cause every combo he does 6k damg (

Put away the 3C against Ragna in general. You can read what I wrote about being mid-screen and on offense against him just a few posts above yours...

Actually I think I'll upload a match of me fighting against a competent Ragna for an example. (not any time soon due to not saving matches among friends due to it being one sided. )

Off topic: Ask Blade.

Edited December 24, 2010 by OmniSScythe

[Yggjrasil]

You forget that 2A >6B or 2A >3C is also a good overhead/mid-low set-up with Ragna people usually don't expect it or they think he's going for tick throw.

[excelence]

2a>6b is good to use once in a blue moon, but seriously 2a>3c will get you killed every time u use it.

[Yggjrasil]

How so? it's a jc poke.

[excelence]

jc poke? err which part of 2a>3c gattling we're talking about?