What makes Tager "fair" ?

[Cooldudenotu]

Please look at this not as complaining but as a serious question.

- near half of your life with command throw

- over half of your life taken with command throw and 50% heat

- Projectile

- Move that nullfies projectiles

- Quick A that can start combos

- Can magnatize you to pull you towards him

- Has attacks that pull you in to him

Besides his large size I don't see any draw backs, and I don't think his size is enough of a downside.

Is it just me who thinks he is ridiculously over powered? Does he or does he not run things at tournaments? I realize that once I master all of my combos and learn the game better I will fare better against tager, but he just seems unstoppable ( I have only played online btw).

I am not trying to complain I am asking a serious question, I honestly don't see how this is a viable character in a fighting game. imagine if they gave zangeif a projectile and magnetism and made his throws even stronger lol

[4r5]

Couldn't Tager players more easily take this question, turn it around, and ask: What makes BlazBlue fair?

[Code-Nana]

Yeah-- I agree.

I think Tager can only be fair when everyone is tournament level pro-status.

On a casual level though, he's just really overpowered. '-'

-and that jab of his is really fucking obnoxious.

[smooshman]

Tager's not unfair on casuals.... he's unfair to nubs.

he can't do anything against you at a range, until spark bolt.

sure he has sledge, but you shouldn't be using projectiles at such a close range (except Jin, whose drive is projectiles), and he's whiffing it.... which isn't good for him.

he has spark bolt, beats projectiles, don't use them when he has it.

his magnets aren't that strong (except in air, but a good ATG will beat most any draw-in attacks)

.....he's basically a walking hitbox, though it's better now, he's a walking hitbox that can fight. Not to say he's bad.... but he sure as hell isn't overpowered.

[4r5]

he's a walking hitbox that can fight.

Oh he can fight now? That's a step up from CT. Good shit.

[Black Onslaught]

Tager is really unfair because he has combos that only hit him, moves that whiff on crouch but will hit him, no approach game save a move that is easily baited and punished, and that he's a cyborg.

How is a little kid and a doll supposed to fuck with a cyborg?

[Zeru]

I don't think he is overpowered either, but for casuals he is pretty damn scary. He punishes by tossing half your life bar away, and if you make a single mistake near the end of a close game his DD will be "your end."

At a casual level most players can't punish anywhere near as badly for you mistakes as Tager can, exception being Hakumen, with heavy Magenta use.

It is also much easier to get magnetized when your inexperienced; unlike at Pro level, were mistakes are made no where near as often, so Tager is often found lacking.

Basically, to more experienced and pro level players, Tager is low tier.

But with new players/casuals, Tager is an angry red god of destruction, powered by science.

[Cooldudenotu]

Tager's not unfair on casuals.... he's unfair to nubs.

he can't do anything against you at a range, until spark bolt.

sure he has sledge, but you shouldn't be using projectiles at such a close range (except Jin, whose drive is projectiles), and he's whiffing it.... which isn't good for him.

he has spark bolt, beats projectiles, don't use them when he has it.

his magnets aren't that strong (except in air, but a good ATG will beat most any draw-in attacks)

.....he's basically a walking hitbox, though it's better now, he's a walking hitbox that can fight. Not to say he's bad.... but he sure as hell isn't overpowered.

At range he can pull you in closer, hit you with that lightning bolt, and he can command dash - that's a lot more then most characters can do ( I play litchi).

I don't know any characters with abusable projectiles in this game besides kune, I am fairly new to it though so I may be incorrect. Even still most characters can't do anything spectacular at range anyways, having to fight up close is not as big as a deal as it is in SF.

I don't see anything that you said that makes sense as to why he is fair - you basically said nothing but an insult.

[Cooldudenotu]

At a casual level most players can't punish anywhere near as badly for you mistakes as Tager can

This is key, that makes a lot of sense. He is able to punish severely with little effort. While learning the game tager will be very, very obnoxious.

[mAc Chaos]

Tager is basically a giant punching bag once you get used to fighting him. He can capitalize on mistakes, but he has to wait for mistakes -- meanwhile the rest of the cast can power out combos that do more damage than he can on a regular basis and they don't have to wait for anything to do it. Any move Tager throws out is too slow and will probably get him a combo to the face, he gets outranged and out prioritized. He's still dangerous but as far as things being stacked against someone it's all against Tager.

[-Ladon-]

Tager destroying new players is exactly what they need

mashing tech, mindless rushdown, projectile spam, random dps all get punished by him severely, so I'd imagine if you had a brain you'd realize these are not good options when you get hit for 4000

[Isorropia]

At range he can pull you in closer, hit you with that lightning bolt, and he can command dash - that's a lot more then most characters can do ( I play litchi).

I don't know any characters with abusable projectiles in this game besides kune, I am fairly new to it though so I may be incorrect. Even still most characters can't do anything spectacular at range anyways, having to fight up close is not as big as a deal as it is in SF.

I don't see anything that you said that makes sense as to why he is fair - you basically said nothing but an insult.

He said basically nothing but an insult because frankly, that's what your posts are deserving of. You just said that you play litchi (the best/second best character in the game) and you claim that tager is a threat (overpowered even) at full screen. Wow.

Honestly if you think that litchi vs tager is in any way a difficult matchup then you should really spend your time becoming not-terrible-at-blazblue instead of coming onto the forum and claiming that easily countered moves are somehow overpowered. 'Abusable projectiles', I mean, are you kidding? Spark volt takes ~20s to charge up and is one use only. If this move hits you at fullscreen, it's not because the move is overpowered, it's because you weren't blocking.

I mean my goodness. You play litchi. When he 'pulls you closer', or 'command dashes' at fullscreen, try, oh I dunno, pressing a button. 6B, 2B, 3C, j.c. All of these have far more range than tager can dream of. But really, I guess if you think that tager can do "a lot more then most characters can do" at fullscreen, then there isn't even much point in telling you how wrong you are, because it's unlikely you'd be able to comprehend what is being said, given your apparent understanding of the game.

[Lumination]

- Tager's big; many characters have lots of Tager-only combos for extra damage/heat. For example, I hear that Makoto's parry loop can loop 9 times on Tager mid-screen while it can only loop 7 times on others in the corner.

- Sledge can go through projectiles yeah, but ask any Hazama player why it's a joke. Just wait for the sledge to end and he eats a counter-hit combo.

- Outside of combos, Spark Bolt is reactionary; you see my bar full? Don't be spamming random attacks across the screen. It's main usage, extending combos, has been nerfed since it does less damage now.

- Tager's 5A is one of the slowest, if not the slowest, pokes in the game, I believe.

Even for casuals, Tager shouldn't be that big of a problem. Even my friends, whose only fighting game experience was Mortal Kombat 2 as a 10 year old, figured out to just jump to not get 360'ed. Just keep your distance. I can't imagine a Tager being that much more devastating than say, a drive-spamming Noel or ice car Jin to casuals.

Edit:

Cmon people, no need to be assholes to a newbie. Some things, you just have to learn from experience. No need to bash him for things he thinks are cheap. Not a very good one to represent our community to the wave of newcomers from CS launch.

[smooshman]

If this move hits you at fullscreen, it's not because the move is overpowered, it's because you weren't blocking.

to be fair, it does stuff all other projectiles.... but you shouldn't be using projectiles when he has it, just fake him out and make him use it, then he can't use it for the rest of the round.

- Tager's big; many characters have lots of Tager-only combos for extra damage/heat. For example, I hear that Makoto's parry loop can loop 9 times on Tager mid-screen while it can only loop 7 times on others in the corner.

yeah, remember Jin's beastly 5C>JB combo? it doesn't work anymore.... except on tager.... and you can do 5C>JB>J2C>JC>5C>JB>......yeah.........

[Cooldudenotu]

He said basically nothing but an insult because frankly, that's what your posts are deserving of. You just said that you play litchi (the best/second best character in the game) and you claim that tager is a threat (overpowered even) at full screen. Wow.

Honestly if you think that litchi vs tager is in any way a difficult matchup then you should really spend your time becoming not-terrible-at-blazblue instead of coming onto the forum and claiming that easily countered moves are somehow overpowered. 'Abusable projectiles', I mean, are you kidding? Spark volt takes ~20s to charge up and is one use only. If this move hits you at fullscreen, it's not because the move is overpowered, it's because you weren't blocking.

I mean my goodness. You play litchi. When he 'pulls you closer', or 'command dashes' at fullscreen, try, oh I dunno, pressing a button. 6B, 2B, 3C, j.c. All of these have far more range than tager can dream of. But really, I guess if you think that tager can do "a lot more then most characters can do" at fullscreen, then there isn't even much point in telling you how wrong you are, because it's unlikely you'd be able to comprehend what is being said, given your apparent understanding of the game.

Why are you so upset?

I guess your one of those people that gets mad when new players ask legitimate questions about a game you play. I have been playing litchi for all of 3 days, the things that make her such a great character I cannot do yet.

I usually am able to avoid almost everything and have very close matches with tagers, but i get caught with 2 throws and a few hits and I'm dead. I outplay them at every corner but it only takes a few mistakes to lose and a new litchi player online - its very hard to avoid mistakes.

And I don't mean the projectile is used as a pressure attack I'm talking about when it's used in combos.

Thanks to all of the real reply's (Limination, etc.) I'll keep up the practice. Hopefully I'll be at a level soon where I'm able to counter tager

[Isorropia]

Why are you so upset?

I guess your one of those people that gets mad when new players ask legitimate questions about a game you play. I have been playing litchi for all of 3 days, the things that make her such a great character I cannot do yet.

I usually am able to avoid almost everything and have very close matches with tagers, but i get caught with 2 throws and a few hits and I'm dead. I outplay them at every corner but it only takes a few mistakes to lose and a new litchi player online - its very hard to avoid mistakes.

And I don't mean the projectile is used as a pressure attack I'm talking about when it's used in combos.

Thanks to all of the real reply's (Limination, etc.) I'll keep up the practice. Hopefully I'll be at a level soon where I'm able to counter tager

Ignorant drivel doesn't count as legitimate questions I'm afraid. Like I said, instead of complaining, actually get better. If you've only been playing for 3 days, then trying playing for 2 weeks and see if it's as insurmountable then.

"I outplay them at every corner" - I highly doubt that. You seem to be under the impression that when you're winning it's because you're outplaying them, but when you're losing it's because ZOMG TAGERS OVERPOWERED. Them taking such brutal advantage of your mistakes would seem to suggest -you- are the one being outplayed.

As already explained the projectile isn't terribly much use in combos as tager's proration is horrible. If they're using it to extend a combo, they probably could have done the combo without it and saved the spark for later.

Oh, and please don't ignore all the actual information that I'm giving to you under the 'wah he's telling me I'm bad' impression you're getting from my posts.

[Konner]

Please look at this not as complaining but as a serious question.

- near half of your life with command throw

IT'S A COMMAND THROW FROM A FUCKING ATOMIC-POWERED CYBORG GIANT.

- over half of your life taken with command throw and 50% heat

Don't use pokes incorrectly, don't use retarded blockstrings. See previous also.

- Projectile

It's a fucking projectile that has to be charged, has bad start-up.

- Move that nullfies projectiles

herp derp remove sledge tager 2 cheep goin throo mah d spam w/ lambchopz

- Quick A that can start combos

Almost EVERY character has this. Tager's does UNDER 2K and ends with GF or 2D.

- Can magnatize you to pull you towards him

This is one of Tager's best abilities. It's not cheap or overpowered.

- Has attacks that pull you in to him

Other characters have vacuum moves too.

Besides his large size I don't see any draw backs, and I don't think his size is enough of a downside.

CT Tager is bullshit. CS Tager is a little better. He's slow as hell, can't dash, can't double jump, and has the most retarded hitbox known to fighters.

Is it just me who thinks he is ridiculously over powered? Does he or does he not run things at tournaments? I realize that once I master all of my combos and learn the game better I will fare better against tager, but he just seems unstoppable ( I have only played online btw).

Tager is the worst character in CT by a looooooooooooong shot. He's slightly better in CS, but still not solid.

I am not trying to complain I am asking a serious question, I honestly don't see how this is a viable character in a fighting game. imagine if they gave zangeif a projectile and magnetism and made his throws even stronger lol

I want to murder you. So. Fucking. Bad.

I wanted to fall on a knife reading this.

[SethDahlios]

Why are you so upset?

I guess your one of those people that gets mad when new players ask legitimate questions about a game you play. I have been playing litchi for all of 3 days, the things that make her such a great character I cannot do yet.

I usually am able to avoid almost everything and have very close matches with tagers, but i get caught with 2 throws and a few hits and I'm dead. I outplay them at every corner but it only takes a few mistakes to lose and a new litchi player online - its very hard to avoid mistakes.

You weren't outplaying them if you let them get off two throws. One throw happens, and should remind you why you don't do stuff like that. One throw may even be Tager EARNING a free throw. Two throws in quick succession tells me you are doing something terribly wrong. (I.E. Techning in front of him immediately, Spamming any invul move on wake up (Tsumbami Gaeshi immediately comes to mind), not breaking Pink throws (learn to hit throw when you see the exclamation marks and not let pink throws end you. There is literally no reason any pink throw should go off on you.). My list could go on forever.)

And I don't mean the projectile is used as a pressure attack I'm talking about when it's used in combos.

Thanks to all of the real reply's (Limination, etc.) I'll keep up the practice. Hopefully I'll be at a level soon where I'm able to counter tager

Learn to respect character options. Only a fool falls for things constantly. (And before anyone else jumps on me, might I remind you I call myself prince of scrubs for a reason.) Learn from your mistakes, and by learn I mean more than acknowledge they exist. Just stating you make them isn't enough, you're merely making excuses and not fixing the problem. Tager has a number of options on stupid people who try to pressure him too much. Good Tager players can instant block into GETB, good Tager players can do a wake up 720 when they see you press that Off the Ground attack. Good Tager players will know your habits, and brow beat you for them.

So DON'T have any bad ones.

[Cooldudenotu]

I wanted to fall on a knife reading this.

that made me laugh out loud xD

I'm talking about CS not CT.

@Issoropia you are seroiusly downplaying tagers abilities. You are acting like the only way tager can beat you in this game is if you give him the match by playing stupidly - that is not true. I was asking a question based on my current knowledge of the game - by no means did I say my opinion was the be all end all deciding factor on tagers strength in the game. I clearly stated that I was a new player and I felt this way, and asked for people to explain to my why I was wrong so in hopes of not losing hope in this game.

[Konner]

Even when I was a new player I understood STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM POTEMKIN, or in this case, Tager. Not a difficult concept.

Plus I only mentioned CT Tager ONCE as a reference to his previous hitbox. All of that was about CS minus the former.

[rei-Scarred]

Lol at Zangief comparison. You do realize that NO ONE can run in sf, and you can't block if you try to jump. And iirc even that considered zangief STILL isn't a high tier character.

I could write a novel on why tager sucks but I'm typing on my iPhone so I'll pass lol

[Cooldudenotu]

You weren't outplaying them if you let them get off two throws. One throw happens, and should remind you why you don't do stuff like that. One throw may even be Tager EARNING a free throw. Two throws in quick succession tells me you are doing something terribly wrong. (I.E. Techning in front of him immediately, Spamming any invul move on wake up (Tsumbami Gaeshi immediately comes to mind), not breaking Pink throws (learn to hit throw when you see the exclamation marks and not let pink throws end you. There is literally no reason any pink throw should go off on you.). My list could go on forever.)

Learn to respect character options. Only a fool falls for things constantly. (And before anyone else jumps on me, might I remind you I call myself prince of scrubs for a reason.) Learn from your mistakes, and by learn I mean more than acknowledge they exist. Just stating you make them isn't enough, you're merely making excuses and not fixing the problem. Tager has a number of options on stupid people who try to pressure him too much. Good Tager players can instant block into GETB, good Tager players can do a wake up 720 when they see you press that Off the Ground attack. Good Tager players will know your habits, and brow beat you for them.

So DON'T have any bad ones.

I meant two throws in total, not in a row. 2 throws and a few hits is what they need to kill me. I do need to improve on breaking pink throws (blue throws seems almost impossible on reaction online).

So it seems everyone is saying play perfect and tager can't beat you, mess up and you lose? Great...

[FlyingVe]

You are acting like the only way tager can beat you in this game is if you give him the match by playing stupidly - that is not true.

This is where you are wrong. Tager only gets Damage when you make mistakes, or guess right. Either way You handed him the match for messing up or getting predictable. Either way you brought it on yourself.

[Lumination]

Word of advice, the people on Dustloop are most likely much more knowledgeable about this game than you, especially if it's only your third day. Accusing others of being wrong is just going to garner more hate your way. Just trust us when we say that Tager isn't as amazing as you think. =)

Oh, and more advice on how to play against CASUAL Tagers:

- Most common times to buffer 360/720 is after sledge or 2D.

- Watch their empty jumps, if he's just jumping at you and not doing anything, I'm willing to bet it's to buffer his 720 lol. (This is especially telling if they jump after hitting you with a full screen Spark Bolt)

- If you suspect him to 360/720 you because of the aforementioned scenarios, j.B (I think that's the annoying split kick one) or use your DP. Easy to stuff his grabs with.

- If they don't catch on to Atomic Collider you, just jump often and the grabs will never get you. =P

- If his Spark Bolt meter is full, just block when you're across the screen; he can't do much with it, seriously.

[Cooldudenotu]

This is where you are wrong. Tager only gets Damage when you make mistakes, or guess right. Either way You handed him the match for messing up or getting predictable. Either way you brought it on yourself.

This can be said about any character - if you played every match perfectly then you would never take any damage. They call it a "Perfect" for a reason. You have to expect that in a match things will not go your way the whole time. And if things don't go your way in a tager match, you lose no questions?

By the way you all are talking it seems like you never lose to tagers at all and you laugh at them. The homepage of this site shows that a tager took first place in BBCS qualifications? How did this happen, did everyone at the tournament give him each game?

EDIT: ( i know it was doubles, Tager was still one of the members of the winning team)