[CS1-CSE] Makoto Nanaya Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[Nini Heart]

CS2 combos are piss easy. If you can do CS1 combos, you can do CS2 combos with only one hand.

As for combos, you just need to know what your combo routes are depending on your position on the map. For example, you hit someone with an AA 5A. You can be a lazy fuck and go into 6A>J.B>J.C>623C~D combo route or be a real man and do the better combo route 6A>2D>Cannon/J.D. Makoto's combos aren't that diverse so knowing the combo routes will help you a shit load.

Meter with Makoto can be used in a bunch of ways, but it's mostly dependent on the match-up. It can be used as a combo extender, combo ender full screen punish, or for pressure.

If you start with 2A midscreen, you can use PF to get corner oki and 4-5k damage instead of the puny 2k + bad spacing you would have done. Or you can use it to RC to extend combos like Parry>RC>665B>6A>2D.

Or against fuckers like Jin, rachel or lambda or anyone who likes doing random shit like projectiles, back dashing, air dashing, you can use your meter for BBS to make them stop being dumb.

Or to extend pressure and create frame traps by RCing when you do something unsafe and it gets blocked.

Or as a combo ender with BBS/Double BBS for those retarded ass damage combos.

Or against fuckers who wanna be killjoys by bursting on drives. RC that shit.

And 5A is a bad thing to use since it whiffs on crouchers. Ask Omni for neutral game since mine sucks.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Nini Heart

[Wutai_Shinobi]

Thanks to both Nini and Omni. This is exactly the kind of info I look for but is hard to find for BB. I'm going to get to work on all that ^^

I'll try to piece together some things from the combo thread and see what works for me~ the format is something I'm not use to, so it seemed a little intimidating before. Need to make a flowchart lol.

[Lusterleon]

Ok, I see. When I get the chance i'll upload a video of me playing serious!! give me two hours!

[Duqs]

redirected from Arakune match-up thread

Dunno if this is the right thread for this, just redirect please if its the wrong one, thanks.

Lost pretty badly to an arakune player, heck even the arakune boards are all lolling at how horrible my game was (which was true, no air throw tech-ing, bursting at the wrong place at the wrong time) For more dissing info please check here

Though I'm not really sure what they meant by doing footsies against arakunes. I dont like risking throwing air to ground moves for fear of 5C.

Anyway here is the match vid, feel free to look at the rest and the entire channel.

Kinda feel like lol for losing this badly on two occassions (winner's finals and grand finals)

thanks in advance

[Nini Heart]

Well, this video doesn't tell us much about how you play since you barely get to do anything lol.

Anyways things I noticed:

1. Obviously, you got airthrown wayy too much. Tech more.

2. You were pushing buttons during curse and getting counterhit. Don't do it.

3. Your blocking needs work. Lots and LOTS of work. You kept getting crossed up by fake cross up curse mixups.

4. Jumping to get out of pressure. This is what led to you getting cursed and losing. The floor is not lava.

5. You hit with CH 6A next to the corner but you did not confirm into damage. Work on your hitconfirm.

6. No 2B OTG pickups. You could have OTG'd quite a few times in the last round into 5k+ when that Kune player delayed his wakeup a lot but you didn't. 2B also punishes roll techs so don't be afraid to use it on knocked down opponents. You can get some free damage in like that against people who like to delay their techs and push them into corner orb oki.

7. Autopilot 5B/2B>5CC>6B blockstring. No one's gonna get hit by that unless you make them aware that you can mix it up.

That's about as much info as I can get from that video where you barely played. Post another one of you "playing" and i'll do more analysis.

[Duqs]

@nini heart

thanks for the unbiased and unadulterated comments

dunno if this is "playing" per se but here:

Favor, please dont post any comments on the litchi, just focus on the makoto please. Though winning might not exactly be your definition of "playing" those are the only vids i have playing as Makoto. I really use Ragna in reality, but well... I switched

thanks

[Nini Heart]

Don't worry, I'm not like those elitist faggots in Kune boards. But I have to say, unless you're playing people of equal skill or better, it's hard to evaluate your level. It's no good playing people who steamroll you as we can't really evaluate you in depth.

1. Like I said before, not enough 2B OTG. It's really useful to extend/start a combo and push them to corner. It punishes roll techs and quick get up too. It can be game ending to get cornered by Makoto, so you shouldn't neglect anything that helps you get the corner.

2. Your mixups and blockstrings were on point here. No more autopilot 5CC>6B. Good shit. Beware of using 236A mid blockstring though as it can be mashed out of. Use it sparingly. Don't abuse it like you did there. You can be sure that anyone who knows Makoto will punish it.

3. You need to learn better combos. You hit with CH J.B a lot. That shit nets you at least 5k meterless anywhere on the screen.

3.5. Learn to rapid to extend your midscreen combos. It can be the difference between 1.5k and a 6K combo. This goes hand in hand with learning better combos.

4. Parry more.

5. No one should ever get away with bursting on your drives when you have 50 meter :/

6. Tech throws.

7. Block better.

There's a bunch of stuff I forgot but it's kinda late so forgive me.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Nini Heart

[Duqs]

Excuse my ignorance, but how do i land a meterless 5k from a CH j.B? and also the "rapid to extend". I usually rapid now if im sure the BBS will kill off the opponent, pursue a long blockstring or to escape a move that leaves me too open.

and number 5 as well

I'll have to give props to the kune board members for pointing out my game, otherwise i'd never know there was something wrong to begin with hahaha:kitty:

[Nini Heart]

No need to be so formal dude. Drop the excuse my ignorance parts. It's making me feel bad.:8/:

Anyway, here's the J.B CH combo thingy. It's an old match of mine but it displays the combo pretty vividly.

And about rapiding to extend, it's like, you land 5D far from the corner, you rapid to dash and do 2D for more damage and corner oki, or if you mess up your drive timing, you rapid to rectify the mistake, or you can use it to go into 2C>2D for huge ass damage.

Number 5, when anyone gets hit by Makoto's D moves and bursts, you have a shitload of time to react and rapid and block to punish. I'll get around to uploading a video explaining Makoto's burst safe combos sometime this week or next week.

[Duqs]

Thanks, i'll try that one out later.

At RC: OHHH that, ayt ayt got it.

[Crosell]

Wait wait, if you do a lvl 2d, rc 2c 2d, can you go into a 6623a lightening arrow stuff. Huh, I had no idea.

[Nini Heart]

Yeah it's in Omni's combo vid. It's a pretty sexy looking combo. 2D(2)>RC>214C~D>Stuff.

[Duqs]

i use 214B~D though instead of C, still have a hard time connecting the next LA set. Saw that jB combo in the last round.

[milesw]

My personal fave under pressure is

623C>RC>dash 2C>2D or

623C>RC>214C~D etc...

Ive been very sf4 in my gameplay lately. but 623C RC is quite nice on hit or block lol

EDIT :

much respect to nini for being so helpful on the forums

@Duqs

I used to do that 5CC 236a stuff alot but as Nini stated a good player will jab you out of it or DP out of it.

Only throw it out a once or twce a match. I believe its safer(not necessarily safe but you are further away) when you do it off 6a.

One thing thats really under estimated about using it in a blockstring is that it takes 2 primers when launched!

So I guess it wouldnt be so bad against those characters with 4 primers.

A small thing you can implement to your game is 2a x n>6B.

It works sooo well even on good players. Abuse it.

Edited March 3, 2011 by milesw

[Duqs]

edit: my bad, its not a 214b~d, its a 214c~d. Was thinking of soemthing else

didnt know you can link 2a with 6b though lol

[Nini Heart]

It doesn't link but it gatlings. If they're not expecting it, it'll probably hit them. Once again, it can be mashed out of so don't get predictable.

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Alright so I uploaded some matches, and here's to hoping they're not so bad as to be almost unable to critique.

I tried to put up matches that would kinda show how I'm currently acting in a variety of situations.

vs Arakune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVA7Ub_3YIg

vs Jin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Kfoh5E62o

vs Litchi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdN_b3OHA7I

vs Rachel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwiUOYDV7bc

vs Ragna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgJroPyJcI

vs Tager

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMJ_H38OHf8

I think my biggest thing to work on right now is getting more experience just so I can recognize, and capitalize on opportunity when it shows up; and especially at getting in more damage when I land a hit that can lead to whatever.

Not exactly sure how to handle Tager... that match-up is a mystery to me. Sometimes I manage to put up a fight, but the majority of the time I just get murdered.

Ragna is a bit odd, too, but I think I'm figuring him out slowly at least. I consider the match I posted to actually be a loss, since at the start of the 3rd round he was moving around for a second, and then must've brb'd the moment I started attacking. Kinda thought he just screwed up on blocking until I took a good chunk of his health, then backed off, lol.

Anywhoo, feel free to (and please do) tear apart my play to shreds with critique. lol.

[milesw]

Alright so I uploaded some matches, and here's to hoping they're not so bad as to be almost unable to critique.

I tried to put up matches that would kinda show how I'm currently acting in a variety of situations.

vs Arakune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVA7Ub_3YIg

vs Jin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Kfoh5E62o

vs Litchi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdN_b3OHA7I

vs Rachel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwiUOYDV7bc

vs Ragna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgJroPyJcI

vs Tager

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMJ_H38OHf8

I think my biggest thing to work on right now is getting more experience just so I can recognize, and capitalize on opportunity when it shows up; and especially at getting in more damage when I land a hit that can lead to whatever.

Not exactly sure how to handle Tager... that match-up is a mystery to me. Sometimes I manage to put up a fight, but the majority of the time I just get murdered.

Ragna is a bit odd, too, but I think I'm figuring him out slowly at least. I consider the match I posted to actually be a loss, since at the start of the 3rd round he was moving around for a second, and then must've brb'd the moment I started attacking. Kinda thought he just screwed up on blocking until I took a good chunk of his health, then backed off, lol.

Anywhoo, feel free to (and please do) tear apart my play to shreds with critique. lol.

Just looked at the Ragna and Jin video...

Well By watching your match I can tell you know how to play the game but just not fully Makoto herself. Your spacing/blocking was nice etc.

The things I saw you do which are bad were...

the xxxx>5cc>6b generic unsafe blockstring. Dont get in the habit of going straight into that on block. its extremely unsafe luckily the people you played didnt know that they can dp or mash 2a/5a after a blocked 5CC.

5cc is minus frames on block.

If anything you should stagger the 5CC and it'll frame trap your opponent resulting in a counter hit.

Or when you rush in with a 2a or 5a have patience and see if the opponent is blocking first then you can decide what you wanna do after a blocked 2a/5a...

You can stagger the a's and try to tick throw them or you could suprise them by going straight into an over head. Or quickly go into 214a~c~a/b or dont do any of ther follow ups. I believe 214a~c is safe on block so you could quickly restart you pressure with a 2a/5a again(if the opponent isnt thinking about mashing)or throw them.

Your corner combo...

after you j.d you should go for the following

1) dash in 236a~d >j7.d>dash in 6b>236a for oki (super scrub killer btw )

>6a>jc>j.CB>623c~delayed D(lv2) the closer the the ground the better >set up 236a for oki

2) 214b~d>214c~d>236a~d>6a>BBS(or BBS x2 if you have the meter)

you can do one lightning arrow if you cant do two. (And this combo wont work if you do 2a or 5a more than once at the beginning of the combo due to proration. Usually if i start the combo with 2ax n i go for the 1st combo route and land BBS if I'm close to ending the round.

Whatever you do don't rush in and super straight away like at 1:17 in the ragna video. If you went for the 2nd combo above you could've killed him off in that one combo.

Oh and in the corner after a lunatic upper(214a~cccccccc....) you can quickly combo into a 5a>6a into air combo or air oki.

The timing is very strict though.

I hope this has been helpful

Edited March 5, 2011 by milesw

[Nini Heart]

Okay so I played a lot last week after a long period of SF and Mahvel.

Any tips on improving my game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC9v8rTGT38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGWErFU4KKg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJOlwQqHAcY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLgZ5e2nyWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyguGtZhNVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6GNy9xcT3Q

My execution was somewhat off on sunday and I played very randomly. Marvel, grrrrrrr.

Any critiques would be appreciated.

[Nini Heart]

Bump!

Need to defree(aka reduce my freeness) myself, come on guys

Things I've noticed: Too much J.2C, too many dropped combos,too many gimmicky resets(I really should just start doing the corner push thingy), too much J.B CH fishing/wayy too much jumping around generally, too much random in general. Hitconfirm wasn't too bad but I kept missing J.B>XX>2D(1)>5CC>2D:(

[milesw]

Nini is a based god.

Only thing I noticed where you did something bad which wasn't you failing at attempting a nice combo eg(2d lv1>5cc>2d etc...) was when you just went for a simple air combo when you could of went for higher damage ones.

But thats minor because you still destroyed em all.

Nice one

Edited March 9, 2011 by milesw

[OmniSScythe]

Something I was going say a few days back but this new habit keep stopping me. lol

I wasn't sure why you was doing 6A > j.2C in the video with the golf style commentary but in general you should use 6A > 6B more often.

Also I know you like going for resets but should really go with the chunks of the damage you can dish out and go for the reset near the end.

Use the corner carry combo!!!

Against Rachel abuse the fact that you get 5k+ for free off your backthrow thanks to cosmic cannon otg. If spaced right you can take off 2 primers for free with a well spaced (or not lol) break shot since she can't punish with 5A and cat chair if mashed can lead to fatal off break shot. Against use more 2A > 2B > 6A > 6B.

Awesome job with all those parries but j.B a little less here and there.

Edited March 9, 2011 by OmniSScythe
derp

[Nini Heart]

Oh wow comet cannon OTG? I didn't know that worked on Rachel thanks. I knew you could back throw and OTG with 5CC into 2D but comet canon? Wow.

And you're right I really should stop 6A>J.2C. It doesn't lead to much and is highly punishable on I.B because the J.2C is too low to the ground. It's another one of my bad habits.

And yeah I got lazy with some combos since my BB execution is now ass. I should get back to practicing some combos.

Thanks guys :D

[OmniSScythe]

Finally if you ever think you might not be able to land cosmic cannon after 2D for whatever reason then go for something like: 2D > dash 2C > 214B~B > jc delay j.B > j.623C~D whiff > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc j.D > 5D > 2C > BBS or 214B~B > jc delay j.B > j.623C~D (2)

Seriously getting 2-3k damage off a dropped combo instead of getting 4-6k+ with corner carry is two very different things.

Fixed, I really should be looking at the monitor when I type instead of watching Kamen Rider. lol

[rraawwrr]

Alright; so I'm trying to pick up Makoto as a secondary, and I thought I'd post here for some help. I'll post some more videos tomorrow, but this was the only replay I saved of my Makoto play.

(Sorry for the bad encoding and sound and ... everything >___>)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lks6HLjgKJQ

My blockstrings don't work, and I can't seem to poke holes in people's defense with Makoto's mixups, and I'm really addicted to 5CC 6B 5C, which is bad. I also seem to really like air dashing in, which dosn't work all the time. What else am I missing?