[CS1] Lambda vs Makoto

[Andru]

New char, time to get up to date on the strats in this matchup.

On start she shouldn't be too bad to deal with..you can zone her freely with 214D or D~C depending on spacing, poke at range, playing the normal zoning game. You really want to stay away from the corners though, if you get caught you will take considerably more damage if you are near one. If possibly try to force her into a corner instead. Can't get too predictable with your poking either, because she can parry and get in fast. (Plus like 800ish damage for free)

Her hitbox is similar to Ragna's, on corner loop you want to start with a TK7 and then optimally alternate when necessary between 7 and 9.

An annoying thing about this matchup is her 3C, she can hold it and use it to advance towards you, similar to Tao's crawl it goes under your projectiles. Even if you try to j.2dd to hit her the spacing must be very accurate. 236D can block this option out for her and force her to wait it out / jump in. Pretty sure it's punishable on reaction by 3C and 236B too.

Once she gets 50 heat you need to be very careful. I'm sure many of you know this by now but your zoning options become unsafe unless you are a FULL screen away from her, she can punish anything you do on reaction because her Big Bang Smash super freezes time while it charges up. I would advise against using 214D~C especially because Makoto can just run up to close the distance and hit you with super were your opponent so inclined. Her heat gain is very fast..always be wary of it. If you are close enough you CAN knock her out of the startup with a fast move. 5a/2a etc.

The majority of Makoto players will choose to end a parry loop with a 2D. This is untechable until you hit the ground, they will try to mix you up, you have no choice but to play her oki game.

She can fullscreen parry your 236236D super, also~ One parry will autoparry the whole thing. Although..in the situation, they're probably more likely to just IB for the meter.

Her orb attack can stop your projectiles if they touch and if you block it on level 3 charge it'll take a primer.

[Arcade Fire87]

What I don't understand is why the developers nerf Noel's air super, but then turn around and give a character a DP super that covers 3/5ths of the screen and is basically unpunishable. Really fucking stupid. There's absolutely no reason for Makato players not to throw this out randomly and on wakeups. It's also a free get out of jail card from oki.

Wakeup supers should be be a gamble risk/reward thing, not absolutely free. If it's going to be unpunishable it needs to have tiny ass range. If it's going to cover that much screen, it should have an incredibly long recovery. God the developers are morons

Definitely up there with Bang's 5A in terms of stupid and broken

[Antihippy]

Except that it takes, you know, 50 heat.

[Arcade Fire87]

Except that it takes, you know, 50 heat.

She builds up heat so fast that's not even an issue. She does big damage without heat too. And god forbid it's enough to get you into the corner.

[Emerald]

Makoto can only parry high and mid attacks. If she parries the 236236D distortion, you can then hit her low and she will lose it I believe.

[kenja0]

The Astral reversal is extremely threatening because it comes out as soon as frame 1 pretty much. Lv3 means it blows through all of Lambda's projectiles. The best way to avoid it is to be jumping, but even then, it completely screws over Lambda's game.

One thing to note, Makoto can be grabbed out of her 632146D, even if its Lv3.

236A>xx>B+C... good but risky like all the Act Parsers thrown out randomly.

Also, I noticed that Makoto is more of an overhead character. She cannot use a fast low attack in the middle of her blockstring- she has to forcibly reset it into 2B or do 214A>C>B which I suggest should be jumped and barriered to avoid.

Lambda's 3C will pretty much counter all of Makoto's 214A and 3C approaches. 214B/C>2C are a little harder to predict, but they are much less likely since it throws Makoto's blockstring out of its groove.

[ikeTATARI]

What I don't understand is why the developers nerf Noel's air super, but then turn around and give a character a DP super that covers 3/5ths of the screen and is basically unpunishable. Really fucking stupid. There's absolutely no reason for Makato players not to throw this out randomly and on wakeups. It's also a free get out of jail card from oki.

Wakeup supers should be be a gamble risk/reward thing, not absolutely free. If it's going to be unpunishable it needs to have tiny ass range. If it's going to cover that much screen, it should have an incredibly long recovery. God the developers are morons

Definitely up there with Bang's 5A in terms of stupid and broken

This super is not instant. If you are fullscreen away and she throws it out you can start blocking it before it hits you, even if you're in jump startup. The best thing to do in this situation is empty jumps - if she tries to punish a perceived j2D, you can just block it. If she tries to dash in and do anything you can 214D close to the ground - I'm pretty sure almost grounded 214D even hits her out of her sweep, but if not and you see her sweeping you can land and 3C - the delay on the sweep is REALLY long, so if you see it coming it's incredibly unsafe for Makoto.

Also, if you're getting hit by Makoto wakeup super as Lambda, you're much too close. Best thing to do in this situation is to throw out a 214D(~C) and block to see what she does. If she supers, you don't get hit - if she doesn't, you're reset back to neutral.

Really in this matchup, it seems that it's just playing safe for most of the match - Makoto's pressure is somewhat strong, but she can't approach very easily if you know her options and a lot of her feints aren't scary since as Lambda you shouldn't be in range for a 214A~D feint anyway. Also, during Asteroid Vision, she's in the same place during the startup, so a 5D will counterhit all day long if you space it and she's trying to approach with it. Close range you can even get away with 5C - I believe this even stuffs the 214A~D feint. Just can't be spamming dem swords from midrange or you'll get a wakeup super to the face.

[Halcyone3]

What I don't understand is why the developers nerf Noel's air super, but then turn around and give a character a DP super that covers 3/5ths of the screen and is basically unpunishable

4/5ths actually.

its not punisheable, but it dosen't give her invincibility, or rly rly short invin if it does, she can't use it reliably as a reversal out of pressure or oki since it can either get beaten before i comes out or trade (though it's still a favorable trade for her in this situation). If u use meaties well on oki u should be ok. What i personally do is to treat a makoto that's far away and has 50 heat as a tager with a full spark-bolt meter, it makes you play more carefully and slow down on the offense, but at least u won't get hit and let her approach for free. Just don't barrier block from the second u see the super flash, even though you are frozen in place while she poses, the barrier gauge will count down real time if u have it held.

[kenja0]

I totally forgot and am nowhere to see if this works.

If Makoto 3C spams, try 4B. It might work like it does on 2A Taokakas.

[excelence]

Big Bang Smash is very good for punishing on reaction but very bad to be used as reversal it has no invul on startup (before she's charging)... so if u meaty her, she'll never be able to throw this and it's punishable if it's being done on point blank range on all lv, imo her best and only reversal is parry(still thought it isn't that reliable) since the Particle Flare/Corona Upper which had true invul from frame 1 have shitty hit boxes, most character can space them self to bait this and make her whiff, for Particle Flare if the spacing is kind of weird, u may get hit with the 1st strike but the 2nd can whiff... so it's not a guaranteed damage.

Edit : Ok, i think i make a stupid post here, i swear i've been hit out of the charge several times while doing reversal BBS, but u can actually buffer the input during Hazama Jayoku super Freeze and BBS beat it clean while he is whiffing the attack... so yeah BBS does have invul

[farranpoison]

Putting some advice for you Lambda players if you ever fight against good Makotos, lol.

Makoto is zoned very, very hard by Lambda... until she has meter for BBS. Once she does have 50 meter, be careful, because she can BBS you as you poke with swords. Sure, it'll probably trade, but Makoto will get hit for like crap damage while you eat a giant fist and allow her to rush in and apply pressure. Honestly, the funniest thing that happened against a Lambda was when I BBS'd when the Lambda used 4D... the sword was right over my head during the whole super animation and only hit me once the giant fist came out. We were like IMPENDING DECAPITATION, it looked so funny.

Makoto 3C goes under many pokes, like 5D, 5C, 6B, and at certain places can avoid a tk Crescent Saber. However, you can easily remedy that by countering with 5B, 2C, 3C, etc etc on reaction if the Makoto is throwing out 3Cs at random. Makoto has to basically predict your move to safely 3C, so try to be unpredictable. Also, Makoto 3C is safe on block and beats almost anything Lambda has after that with 2A. Not sure if Lambda can counter poke with her own 2A and score a trade, hasn't happened to me yet.

If you use Spike Chaser a lot, Makoto can fire her projectile and cancel it. Careful of 214D-C, because Makoto can either projectile you during your startup for a free FC combo, or BBS you. However, cancelling regular Spike Chaser with Projectile really works in your favor, since the ball won't hit you after the cancel and you're free to poke with swords after that, so really, you have to watch more for when you use delayed Spike chaser. Also don't run it after Spike Chaser if the Makoto isn't jumping... chances are they'll parry it and catch you in the follow up D. But really that's only if they don't projectile or jump after Spike chaser, since she only has those three options.

Also maybe someone can find a counter for my corner strategy oki vs Lambda. After a combo into DP ender, I always like to jump and j.2C Lambda because she really doesn't have any answers for that, at least not that I've seen. 2C gets clashed, and Gravity well doesn't help much. I basically have a free j.2C that will either hit and I can go into combo, or the Lambda will block it and allow me to apply corner pressure. It looks really good, but I want to know if Lambda can do anything counter it. >_>

For an FYI, BBS does have some invul, but really like only a few frames. It's iffy, I've wakeup BBS'd and beaten a Lambda dash- in 2B, but also been 2A'd out of wakeup BBS. It just depends on your timing and if you're lucky or not, lol.

[toanenadiz]

Also maybe someone can find a counter for my corner strategy oki vs Lambda. After a combo into DP ender, I always like to jump and j.2C Lambda because she really doesn't have any answers for that, at least not that I've seen. 2C gets clashed, and Gravity well doesn't help much. I basically have a free j.2C that will either hit and I can go into combo, or the Lambda will block it and allow me to apply corner pressure. It looks really good, but I want to know if Lambda can do anything counter it. >_>

Have any Lambda's tried 6A? With its invulnerability, shouldn't Makoto be CH out of it?

And is Makoto's j2C positive on block even if the Lambda IBed it?

[farranpoison]

I think after IB it's still safe, not exactly sure. I do think Makoto 2A beats most of Lambda options even if IB.

And with 6A, it might still clash, needs someone to test to be sure.

[cookiehours]

Putting some advice for you Lambda players if you ever fight against good Makotos, lol.

Makoto is zoned very, very hard by Lambda... until she has meter for BBS. Once she does have 50 meter, be careful, because she can BBS you as you poke with swords. Sure, it'll probably trade, but Makoto will get hit for like crap damage while you eat a giant fist and allow her to rush in and apply pressure. Honestly, the funniest thing that happened against a Lambda was when I BBS'd when the Lambda used 4D... the sword was right over my head during the whole super animation and only hit me once the giant fist came out. We were like IMPENDING DECAPITATION, it looked so funny.

Makoto 3C goes under many pokes, like 5D, 5C, 6B, and at certain places can avoid a tk Crescent Saber. However, you can easily remedy that by countering with 5B, 2C, 3C, etc etc on reaction if the Makoto is throwing out 3Cs at random. Makoto has to basically predict your move to safely 3C, so try to be unpredictable. Also, Makoto 3C is safe on block and beats almost anything Lambda has after that with 2A. Not sure if Lambda can counter poke with her own 2A and score a trade, hasn't happened to me yet.

If you use Spike Chaser a lot, Makoto can fire her projectile and cancel it. Careful of 214D-C, because Makoto can either projectile you during your startup for a free FC combo, or BBS you. However, cancelling regular Spike Chaser with Projectile really works in your favor, since the ball won't hit you after the cancel and you're free to poke with swords after that, so really, you have to watch more for when you use delayed Spike chaser. Also don't run it after Spike Chaser if the Makoto isn't jumping... chances are they'll parry it and catch you in the follow up D. But really that's only if they don't projectile or jump after Spike chaser, since she only has those three options.

Also maybe someone can find a counter for my corner strategy oki vs Lambda. After a combo into DP ender, I always like to jump and j.2C Lambda because she really doesn't have any answers for that, at least not that I've seen. 2C gets clashed, and Gravity well doesn't help much. I basically have a free j.2C that will either hit and I can go into combo, or the Lambda will block it and allow me to apply corner pressure. It looks really good, but I want to know if Lambda can do anything counter it. >_>

For an FYI, BBS does have some invul, but really like only a few frames. It's iffy, I've wakeup BBS'd and beaten a Lambda dash- in 2B, but also been 2A'd out of wakeup BBS. It just depends on your timing and if you're lucky or not, lol.

I've been having problems with her. *sigh*

Inexperience with this match is what's part of it. :T

This gives me an idea of what I can do differently against her next time. Fought a few good Makotos but only managed to beat them a few times.

[farranpoison]

Cookie, Makoto is like F-tier in an online connection of less than 3 bars. She's so free. I am disappoint.

[Overheat]

I've been having problems with her. *sigh*

Inexperience with this match is what's part of it. :T

This gives me an idea of what I can do differently against her next time. Fought a few good Makotos but only managed to beat them a few times.

I'll put you in a room with one of my Makoto friends. Best Makoto I've ever fought, but Makoto is not even her main =/

[B.P.M.]

I'd just say, take the pressure and go for a 6B/5B IMO

[cookiehours]

Cookie, Makoto is like F-tier in an online connection of less than 3 bars. She's so free. I am disappoint.

I don't fight Makotos with less than three bars. :|

And it's just inexperience on my part. I'm gradually getting better though.

[farranpoison]

I've been told by Severin that Lambda 6A does indeed clash with Makoto j.2C, so no free anti-air. He does advise, however, to mash 5A after clash.

[severin]

Well, I was mostly joking about the 5A after clash, but hey, it works. I honestly can't give too much advice on this matchup because I've played all of two makotos ever. In the meantime though, some hitbox funtime to explain the clash:

(also, miku lambda because it was brought up in irc)

[ryu-bi]

Makoto 3C goes under many pokes, like 5D, 5C, 6B, and at certain places can avoid a tk Crescent Saber. However, you can easily remedy that by countering with 5B, 2C, 3C, etc etc on reaction if the Makoto is throwing out 3Cs at random. Makoto has to basically predict your move to safely 3C, so try to be unpredictable. Also, Makoto 3C is safe on block and beats almost anything Lambda has after that with 2A. Not sure if Lambda can counter poke with her own 2A and score a trade, hasn't happened to me yet.

I prefer punishing random 3C with CH 6C > 236C > Anything. However it only works if you react to 3C before she spins the second time, otherwise you'll lose or trade with her 3C attack unless she actually hold the button down