YukiBlue Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 6c, 3c all day. One of my preferred matchups. Not much to say really other than to watch out for her 3c, It goes under 4c and 6c (Not sure on 6c). Just have fun, Really.
mAc Chaos Posted April 25, 2011 Author Posted April 25, 2011 More like "get hit once by 2A, lose." :3
YukiBlue Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Meh, All depends on the situation You in a corner - You're going to have a very bad day Mid-Screen - Make her play your game, should burn some time in the shade It's not a free, But I've come across plenty of Makoto players, and I've lost to plenty of Makoto players. But compared to anyone else, A-la Ragna or Bang. This matchup isnt close to being as difficult. Only thing to watch out for is asteroid vision. Which 2/3 times can be beaten with a 2c
Sophisticat Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Just have fun, Really. This matchup isnt close to being as difficult. Go play Nini_Heart or Omniscythe and come back here and say the same. Until you have played a good Mak, you have not played the matchup. Now, 6c, 3c all day. No. 6c is slow enough to be parried, and 3c becomes easy to IB after a while. Then it's a 4-5k ride to the corner and you're going to have to try to get out. ----- Okay, time to make a (short... might expand later) match analysis here. Makoto's supposed flaws are a lack of range and modes for entry. This is irrelevant since once she's in, she's in and she's hard to keep out unless you're familiar with her block strings. More on this later. So Haku has to deal with her near Bang-like in-your-face pressure. I treat this matchup a bit like Litchi in that you don't want to get hit at all. It's much easier to deal with Makoto's spacing, but average damage is higher than Litchi overall. Best way to deal with her pressure: jump out + barrier. Only thing is, you can't do it anytime. Best to do if the other guy is going for a 6a or [slow low hit I forget the notation]. Both are a good opportunity to get out. You can also j.D and 2D them respectively if you're confident you can nab them consistently. I the corner, she thankfully has no instant overheads like Litchi, but you want to watch closely for an opportunity to jump out or go for a counter. Throw is also legit on her part -- do NOT get hit by anything as it easily leads into 6k+. For Haku, you're looking to fish for hits and work counters to condition the Makoto to not be so pressure-heavy. Low j.C is a nice spacing tool here and you can go into corner carry if you have the stars. Avoid 4c like the plague because of Mak's 3c. You can either jump out of it or go for a free 5c CH if timed right. When jumping in, watch for parry and DP. Work mixup by landing and going into tick throw or a low. For DP, either bait it or j.D counter. In close-quarters when you get in the first poke, keep up the pressure until you get a hit. You can also treat it like Ragna and see if you can bait DP. Haku's 2a has nice range on it than can make Mak's DP just barely whiff for a free 5c CH -> 5c -> combo. Okay, so that ended up longer than I'd thought. Hope the info is useful. I might add more later if anything comes to mind. Anyway, overall: My assessment is 5.5 in Mak's favor for the simple reason that her abare is ridiculous, her pressure is strong and it can be hard to distinguish between her moves (imo, she needs a redesign here). Her mixup is decent and her corner game is good. She can also be a bit hard to get in on because of parry and DP, though these are perfectly bait-able. Haku can space and play with distances to net an advantage. His counters can also do some decent work if the Mak is too rushdown happy. Be cautious and hit hard once you get in a hit. Go wild once you get her in the corner. Not an easy matchup, but perfectly winnable. Just don't get hit by 2a and you'll be ok.
Nini Heart Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Makoto gives Hakumen especially more trouble than Ragna and Bang from what I've seen thanks to character specific combos with easy corner carry, retarded damage and her easy ways in on haku. Even midscreen, you don't really make her play your game. Dash 2A and IB>Dash 2A is really good against 4C , 3C gets us in for free if you try to poke with J.C and depending on the height and spacing, you could be eating a 7k combo. Also parry has nearly no recovery and does not put us into CH state, so even baiting it doesn't lead to much unless you're in throw range. Edited April 25, 2011 by Nini Heart
Sophisticat Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Makoto gives Hakumen especially more trouble than Ragna and Bang from what I've seen thanks to character specific combos with easy corner carry, retarded damage and her easy ways in on haku. I would be inclined to agree. While Bang is strong all-'round, Mak's mixup and damage is simply superior. Ragna is frustrating because of the space he controls, but Haku still has the advantage since Ragna isn't all that safe. Also parry has nearly no recovery and does not put us into CH state, so even baiting it doesn't lead to much unless you're in throw range. ... I hate you. <3
huey253 Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 doesn't hakumen's meaty 2B (spaced) beat makato's dp on wakeup?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 When you say "beat" you mean "not getting hit and are able to safely punish the missed dp" then yes.
YukiBlue Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 I wont even begin to argue back. But you gotta unerstand that's only from experience. Where I live, There are No Arcade machines. I'm a sole Online player for both systems. And from the experience I personally have, I have just never seen Makoto at her full potential. Then again, I doubt many could beat Omni on XBL?...And I dont even know the name of a top level Haku, So...
psycofang2 Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 Yes its always from personal experience, problem is if you havent seen and dealt with said characters at or close to their optimal potential, then the information you post about it will be null and void. before posting info try learning as much as you can about the character in question, via videos, or even training mode by yourself.
Sophisticat Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Don't take it personally, just know that matchups aren't so simple that a couple moves determine whether it's easy or not. In fact, if you hadn't posted the wrong info I wouldn't have typed up that wall, so there was some merit to it.
psycofang2 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Don't take it personally, just know that matchups aren't so simple that a couple moves determine whether it's easy or not. In fact, if you hadn't posted the wrong info I wouldn't have typed up that wall, so there was some merit to it. sophi add my info to your info, also i forgot to mention makoto can cancel 3C into 2A 6B and i belive i saw 5B.
Sophisticat Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 An ungodly marriage if there ever was one. I'll see about working on a cleaner post this weekend. It's exam crunch time right now, so a revision will have to wait for a bit. I also want others to comment and see if there isn't anything that could be done better. I'm pretty sure there's stuff that could be corrected in there.
C0R Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 sophi add my info to your info, also i forgot to mention makoto can cancel 3C into 2A 6B and i belive i saw 5B. Um, you might be thinking of 3[c], which prevents the hit from actually comming out, and puts her into neutral after moving, similar to litchi delay 6b.
C0R Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Remember that she can do it into anything, including throw, super, dp and another 3c.
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