Using rhythm to help learn combos

[AtrixWolfe]

rhythm, the more I practice and I understand of the game, the more I understand how important remembering beats are, not just combinations of keys input at rapid succession. On that end, I think my ability to comprehend new combos is greatly increased if I can view the entire combo and hear the audio cues, and even more so, if I can see a video with the player doing the combo and hear the clack clack of their inputs being registered. Then I turn this into my own little song of comboing :D

Sooo I play guitar, piano, and a few other things, and I have a drum set I'm in the process of learning on. But my idea is thus, what if hard combo strings, like the parry loop and taunt loop, had little mp3 files with them in guides.

We could even give each beat a different tone for each key being pressed. For instance, a would be a higher more trill note, while d would be more bass. I'm unsure what to do with the directional input at this moment. But maybe some kind of constant sound for when directional input is being done, and you'll just know what it is.

Then when learning a combo, someone could make the mp3 file for you to hear their timing. I'm a computer programmer too, so I might even make some kind of program that can facilitate move entering and turn it into this sound file. Which you could then loop, listen to on the subway and learn combos all day hehe. Anyway, does anyone consider the idea to have merit? If it existed, might you use it?

I find audio queues MUCH easier and more consistent than visual ones. Maybe that is just me?

Re-clarifying the thread which was derailed

The Idea:

A software that will take user input from complex combo strings (Like Tao's taunt loop or the parry loop), from people who do it with 100% efficiency and rendering a sound file from this. This sound file can then be used to help train players.

The Implementation:

It will use clacks or drum sounds for each input, as well as pitches/tones for each key. (For non music theory in know: middle C is the key in the middle of a piano and third, fifth etc are in reference to the major C Scale)

A: Flat seventh above middle C

B: 3rd above middle C

C: middle C

D: fifth below middle C

Taunt: Octave above middle C

Directional input: octave below middle C

Drum Sounds or clacks will be played at the start of each input. Difference to tones may be made to make differentiating easier. But the main aspect is and always will be the drum. The tones are merely to help remind you what is being pressed at any given time.

The Question to You:

Would you use such a tool? And if so would you use it in training? Or simply out of curiosity?

I was thinking of making a standard preset. But too I could alter the scale and drum sounds to make Blazblue combos sound like various genres of music. Using the classic scale I could make it sound normal. I could use the jazz scale and jazz drum usual for a jazz version, and the pentatonic and blues scales for rock and blues versions. A problem might be too many sounds going on too quickly to recognize, in which case I would set drum sounds to just metronome sounding ticks.

[Justice7541]

What the shit are you even talking about.

[Low Diver]

wtfamireading

[Kyosuke Kagami]

When I read this thread, first thing that came to my mind was August Rush.

[Remius]

I was thinking the same thing as you during challenge mode one day, but then i realized i was able to do the combo afterwards with the sound not even on (i was on the phone.)

Audio cues may help, but in all it's just your brain remembering when to do the motions. With audio i can do SOME combos with my eyes closed, but its way easier with a visual.

[FormerlyUnknown]

interesting idea

[TeeJay]

I actually learned my litchi combos in CT by remembering the rhythm. Oddly, my play style is to try to disrupt mye own rhythm. Ie: 5/8 to 3/4 to 7/8 in regards to movement but very sporadically. (I'm a music comp major btw so I guess I can relate). Though I think the rhythm thing can be a great hindrance as I had to learn to disrupt it. It made me a lot easier to read.

[DoomieJ]

Its called muscle memory. Its the thing that makes you good at music games/fighting games. And hence, the rhythm aspect. But in a loud, crowded tourney area, you cant really hear, so you are just going off your muscle memory.

[AtrixWolfe]

What the shit are you even talking about.

I can explain it better if you need xD But basically, every combo in BlazBlue has a timing, or rhythm to it. If we standardized a way to record movement inputs, and turn them into sound files that would emulate the clicking you hear when someone is performing a combo, it would be a great learning tool for all tiers of game play, but especially beginner and intermediate players.

wtfamireading

Stuff ~

When I read this thread, first thing that came to my mind was August Rush.

Never heard of it o.O wiki'd it, might be an interesting movie.

I was thinking the same thing as you during challenge mode one day, but then i realized i was able to do the combo afterwards with the sound not even on (i was on the phone.)

Audio cues may help, but in all it's just your brain remembering when to do the motions. With audio i can do SOME combos with my eyes closed, but its way easier with a visual.

I agree it's about remembering the motions. But muscle memory isn't always going to get you there and muscle memory is developed in the first place through SUCCESSFUL repetition. It isn't so much the audio cue's in the game, but the rhythm in which you enter in the inputs. Like, for the parry loop I think, dun, du-du (98746) dun, du-du and so I am hitting b, c, c at that tempo and I can hear the buttons being pressed at that tempo and s helping a ton.

interesting idea

Thanks man :D If made might you use it? I already have an idea for the tones I could use:

Key of C

Taunt: Octave above middle C

A: flat 7th above middle C

B: the third above middle C

C: middle C

D: fifth below middle C

Directional input: 1 octave below middle C

In addition the start of each keypress would be accompanied with a clack or a drum.

Perhaps as following:

Taunt: Closed High Hat

A: Small Tom

B: Medium Tom

C: Snare

D: Floor Tom or Bass

Directional: cymbal?

All that might get too confusing though, so a generic clack could be used.

[TeeJay]

Yeah I agree. Rhythm isn't a problem no matter how loud (internal pulse). Audio cues would be a problem. But the muscle memory seems to develop naturally. On second thought, I think I was referring to something completely different.

[AtrixWolfe]

Its called muscle memory. Its the thing that makes you good at music games/fighting games. And hence, the rhythm aspect. But in a loud, crowded tourney area, you cant really hear, so you are just going off your muscle memory.

While I agree, I'm not talking audio cues in the traditional sense, but your own personal sense of rhythm. Like. You are singing a song to yourself in your head when you do the combo kind of thing. Like my example above in the parry loop.

[Spirit Juice]

Yes, rythm can help with your muscle memory. Don't see why this is a thread though.

[Spirit Juice]

Reopening the thread for now. I took the liberty to rename the thread something more relevant.

[AtrixWolfe]

Reopening the thread for now. I took the liberty to rename the thread something more relevant.

My thanks. I mispelled rhythm too :P If you could fix that I will bow to the mighty frog :D

Now... since this got derailed, I'm going to set us on track again. I'll update the main thread for clarity.

[Andarel]

...

I just realized that it might be possible to map a combo into the Stepmania rhythm editor if you're just using A, B, C, and D. Unfortunately, that requires the pirated version.

I think that would be the biggest issue you'd run into.

[FormerlyUnknown]

i wanna see some vocaloid singing some kune loops

[Andarel]

...Seconded.

Would also be an amusing splitscreen combo video.

[BigRedMoose]

Definitely a cool idea. Having played an instrument for a number of years, I definitely think about the rhythm of my combos when I'm not playing. I haven't figured out how I would react in a louder situation, but for now it helps.

[Yggjrasil]

Not gonna lie, this really helps when learning combos, especially on MvC2 and loops on GG and BB. Cept on MvC2 I only needed to listen to "Scatman" just to get 90% of the infinites down in my head.

[TeeJay]

I thought of a concept to try to get the opponent off balance by basing your gameplay movement, (maybe even footsies on odd number beats, syncopation and irregular time signatures (5/8, 7/8, 11/8 etc. etc.) I can't really describe it in detail and since I'm not a top player it's relevancy is small. Something like showing your opponent some 4/4, common time repetition than adding half a beat or subtracting. I would assume most people do this type of stuff naturally and on autopilot but how many conceive of doing it. Maybe it's my keep away/poking CT litchi making me think in weird ways. Some chastise me if I'm too out of the thread's topic. (YLOD has me with too much idle thinking)

A rhythmic thought or internal pulsation helps a lot on combos with delays and odd timing.

[-Ladon-]

Been doing this since I started learning characters back in Slash, it's better to do this and learn then shut off your sound and turn on an mp3 player or something to get it down to visual memory as well, otherwise if there's any noise that distracts you from the rhythm you have your visual cues

[AtrixWolfe]

So for all thoughts and appearances, it appears, yes people do this. And yes having a tool that has THE timing down so you can listen to it would enable people to learn faster.

Now the question is finding time to do it.

I planned on doing it in C, but the mention of a program that already does something similar (stepmania) got me thinking I might be able to just throw together partial programs out there and get one working. Integration > programming from scratch.

Also, I third the notion of having vocaloids sing combos

[FormerlyUnknown]

i just play music while i fight to calm myself down and prevent rage =p

it's a double-edged sword. if i'm super calm i can have total focus and rock out on fights

on the other hand if i'm going batshit insane with rage my fingers move on their own with the speed and precision of a serial murderer surgeon.

oh what to do

[Andarel]

The secret is to listen to Blue Oyster Cult.

Seriously. It helps.

[Remius]

So for all thoughts and appearances, it appears, yes people do this. And yes having a tool that has THE timing down so you can listen to it would enable people to learn faster.

Now the question is finding time to do it.

I planned on doing it in C, but the mention of a program that already does something similar (stepmania) got me thinking I might be able to just throw together partial programs out there and get one working. Integration > programming from scratch.

Also, I third the notion of having vocaloids sing combos

I mean, it may be neat, but it's no telling if it'll be useful or not. Either way you do it, you'll be learning the same way. It will never help you to close your eyes in this game EVER, neither can you play this game without Video. Muscle Memory and general understanding of the character for switching stuff up is all you really need. When you fight, it's basically moving around until you get a hit, then recgonizing the cues for the combo and then doing it.

Practice mode is enough, you have plenty of things aside from audio to help you learn your combos, including the Beat meter and the animation of the characters themselves.