Guilty Gear 2: Overture released

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

um... wow... ok I'm not too good to replying to five things at once xD I think I remember that match, but it's been a while. I don't play Valentine as often as I used to, and epic 4-5 matches that usually if you make one wrong move it's over don't come my way too often. So the possibility of me having an epic match with Valentine is like 1-2,000 or something. I suck at GG2, if I wrote a guide, it'd make the player worse than before. EDIT: WOOT I got the 1000th post on my favorite topic on DL, I feel so special xD

[PandaKingEX]

I found this fairly interesting video of a bunch of preview footage before the game came out. You will notice some things that never made it into the final game, like Sol doing a fire tackle move, Sin does beak driver in the air, and some other stuff.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7504509

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

aw... Aerial Beak Driver would've been cool. that fire tackle too. >.<

[Blackgenma]

that video was ok, I don't really care for what the development team did not put in the game though. that fire tackle did look sick. I prefer videos of player kicking ass and tacking names, stuff that didn't make the final product won't help me stop getting my ass handed to me. EDIT: I recently picked up Dr.Paradigm, can any one give me general tips on playing the good doctor? any good vids you can refer me to? I can beat the computer with him (barely) but im pretty bad with him over all.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qTYMPNRz8&feature=channel_page

uh, oh god should I even? uh... ok then, read at your own risk. (The vid is much better than I can ever explain)

so, I spam Y.

[Blackgenma]

oh, thanks for sharing that video ayumu.

I ran into JJJJ2 the other day, I beat his sin senslees. he was ok at the servant battles, though he made some big mistakes here and there. that and he stinks at master battles, so every time I came across him, I tore right through him with Sol. I gotta get better at over-runing the master ghost in one round! I don't know how panda wins using nothing but drills in round one! I must be too slow or something. anyway, at least JJJJ2 knows how to play unlike some americans online...

so, again for future refrence....some HN tappu Goodness! showing off some of that Dr. paradigm.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6299425

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6300031

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6303258

got it from the gamefaq boards, and thought I'd share with those here.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

I know how to play, I just can't.

[NeoVid]

I ran into JJJJ2 the other day, I beat his sin senslees. he was ok at the servant battles, though he made some big mistakes here and there. that and he stinks at master battles, so every time I came across him, I tore right through him with Sol.

To be fair, he mains Sol and only started using other characters a few days ago.

Though when he told me about picking up Sin, some of the things he mentioned were obviously bad ideas even to me, and he has far more experience with the game than I do by now.

Even (or especially) if no one's going to work on a guide for this game, there should be more discussion in this thread. I was taken completely by surprise when he told me that in really high-level play, Sol isn't the deadliest Master... Ky is, thanks to nearly inescapable juggle combos.

Considering he's learned most of what he knows from Pandaking, I'll trust what he says.

Pandaking! Have you found that site with the in-depth info yet? I'd love to see it.

Also, I hear FlamemasterAJ still refuses to tell anyone how he does 300 damage Volcanic Vipers, except for saying it involves the parallel movement trigger.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

like I said, I can't make a guide for the soul reason of if anyone reads it, they would become worse than they were when they were looking for help. I told you this x3 anyway, I haven't played in about a week so I'm int interested to see if anyone's still online :\

[PandaKingEX]

Well I just have to let everyone know that I'm pretty much done with GG2, or at least for now. What small group of players we had are not even really playing anymore, and I'm pretty busy with some personal stuff myself, so I just don't have the time to stay on top of this game like I used to. I'll probably make a comeback sometime, and start being more serious about developing the metagame, but I'll be out of the picture for a while now.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

D:

[Blackgenma]

Even (or especially) if no one's going to work on a guide for this game, there should be more discussion in this thread. I was taken completely by surprise when he told me that in really high-level play, Sol isn't the deadliest Master... Ky is, thanks to nearly inescapable juggle combos.

Ky is DEFINITELY not the most dangerous master (neither is sol). my friend mained Ky, and got sick of getting his ass handed to him in fights. the problem with ky is that he is limited in his approaches to attack you (read: predictable), and his reversal is not as good as sol's. when you play as ky, you will learn is combo strings, and learn how to escape them and counter attack. Panda plays plenty of Ky, so he would know a lot more than I do about the guy. there are some topics of him deep in the gamefaqs board, so go digging there if you want to find some more info on him.

the two most deadliest masters are probably Sin and Izuna (great range), but my experience with them is limited. sol's lack of range really hurts him, but at the very least, he has the tools to defeat any master at one on one. look at some of the earlier discussions on this board for more on the topic.

I think in order to make full use of sol, you need to take advantage of items and his skills. with dragon install, sol is death incarnate, getting hit with volanic viper in that form does insane damage. carry around your firewheel and ambush enemy masters with it to tilt things in your favor in a big way. hunchback is decent for backing you up in a fight, despite it's lack of overall effectiveness, it saved my butt a couple of times in master fights by interrupting the enemy's combo, and it's relatively cheap in both tension and mana. just don't expect too much from it and your fine, think of it primarily as a support unit for backing sol up, so don't expect it to play hero. it's not used by a lot of players (probably no one uses it), but I believe you can squeeze some use out of it to cover the lack of some skill.

remember that Dr.P and Valentine use items and skills to boost themselves considerably in master battles, so disabling their item slot would be a good tactic, and a dispell is a must. remember that Sol's engulfer can lock the item slot of the enemy master, so if you want, you can ambush masters with it. it isn't as powerful as firewheel though, so keep that in mind.

don't mind my raving, just felt like blabbing some sol tactics.

theres always a time where you gotta move on Panda. though i really wish you did write some sort of guide, you helped plenty on the boards and on youtube, so thanks for your contributions. lets hope a sequel comes out eventually.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

Ky is DEFINITELY not the most dangerous master (neither is sol). my friend mained Ky, and got sick of getting his ass handed to him in fights. the problem with ky is that he is limited in his approaches to attack you (read: predictable), and his reversal is not as good as sol's. when you play as ky, you will learn is combo strings, and learn how to escape them and counter attack. Panda plays plenty of Ky, so he would know a lot more than I do about the guy. there are some topics of him deep in the gamefaqs board, so go digging there if you want to find some more info on him.

Maybe you've yet to face a really good Ky?

the two most deadliest masters are probably Sin and Izuna (great range), but my experience with them is limited. sol's lack of range really hurts him, but at the very least, he has the tools to defeat any master at one on one. look at some of the earlier discussions on this board for more on the topic.

Sin's easy and emits alot of damage through short combos that don't burn alot of tension.

Izuna's a furry ()

I think in order to make full use of sol, you need to take advantage of items and his skills. with dragon install, sol is death incarnate, getting hit with volanic viper in that form does insane damage. carry around your firewheel and ambush enemy masters with it to tilt things in your favor in a big way. hunchback is decent for backing you up in a fight, despite it's lack of overall effectiveness, it saved my butt a couple of times in master fights by interrupting the enemy's combo, and it's relatively cheap in both tension and mana. just don't expect too much from it and your fine, think of it primarily as a support unit for backing sol up, so don't expect it to play hero. it's not used by a lot of players (probably no one uses it), but I believe you can squeeze some use out of it to cover the lack of some skill.

FIREWHEEL!! (inside joke) Oh man.

I use hunchback too, I find uses. like when you summon it it has a hitbox right from the start so that could interupt some rush down into a possible combo I always mess up.

remember that Dr.P and Valentine use items and skills to boost themselves considerably in master battles, so disabling their item slot would be a good tactic, and a dispell is a must. remember that Sol's engulfer can lock the item slot of the enemy master, so if you want, you can ambush masters with it. it isn't as powerful as firewheel though, so keep that in mind.

I've never really used my slots actively with Val unless I fell stupid and want to spam Zest. Maybe I should more often

don't mind my raving, just felt like blabbing some sol tactics.

theres always a time where you gotta move on Panda. though i really wish you did write some sort of guide, you helped plenty on the boards and on youtube, so thanks for your contributions. lets hope a sequel comes out eventually.

PANDA! You will be remembered for what you were, a badass GG2 player that was anti-dickish enough to help out some new players. (even though I was about 3 months late to the GG2 time )

[Blackgenma]

I've faced panda's ky. so I faced a good one before (owned me). even still, that's not saying a lot, as any master is trouble when played at a high level. I'm just saying that Ky is definitely not the best master. his holy brand combo does crazy damage though. CRAZY damage.

[PandaKingEX]

Ky is actually becoming a much more dangerous character now that people are realizing his endless mixup game, and the power of stun edge. Stun Edge can punish nearly any approach on reaction, which means all you have to do is sit back and wait for your opponent to make a move, and then stun edge, cancel, and then step in and perform your combo of choice. Stun also punishes people who try to sidestep, so you can randomly throw them out when you think they might sidestep in the middle of your blockstrings. I think Ky is a character that hasn't been explored enough, and Is becoming more and more dangerous the more people continue to use him.

[Blackgenma]

Ky is actually becoming a much more dangerous character now that people are realizing his endless mixup game, and the power of stun edge. Stun Edge can punish nearly any approach on reaction, which means all you have to do is sit back and wait for your opponent to make a move, and then stun edge, cancel, and then step in and perform your combo of choice. Stun also punishes people who try to sidestep, so you can randomly throw them out when you think they might sidestep in the middle of your blockstrings.

I think Ky is a character that hasn't been explored enough, and Is becoming more and more dangerous the more people continue to use him.

cool to know the character is getting deadlier. it's surprising, because I'm not used to hearing about general changes in opinion of how characters preform when I get into a game, but seeing as how unpopular this game is, it can't be helped.

ugh, I'm STILL sucking hard with paradigm though. hn tappu posted another battle on nico video against a ky player on trioa (panda 62 I think), where he won via judgment. it was epic. I noticed that he was doing pretty bad in master battles, so I guess it's something that can't be helped when playing Dr. Paradigm. I'm an ABSOLUTE mess when playing this character, even after watching his videos, but I don't want to drop him though.

I also seem to have a really nasty habit with Sol. I take over the map with nothing but drills, but not fast enough to reach the master ghost by round 1, or before the enemy can summon his armors, which eats my drills alive. this wouldn't be a problem if I was good at micro-managing my tasks and purchase my blades as soon as I can and dump them to the front line, to slow the enemy down so I can work my magic and slaughter what I have to, but I keep forgetting to summon anything but drills! it's not uncommon for me to look up and find I have a ton of mana that I didn't touch, thanks to me running around with nothing but drills, and maybe some random Item or skill. by the time I start buying new stuff, it's too late...

Panda, do you recomend using Sol's Flame Jacket? I tend never to use it, because I don't feel it would save me if I stink, so I say "whats the point?". I only really use it to copy you and that combo you do with it, because it looks really cool. juggling people with your aura blast is awesome. BAH!

oh, and do many people use jump to avoid horizontal attacks? I personally haven't seen that too often, but it seems very effective. I overlooked the fact that the game suggest that you do it.

EDIT: oh yeah, ayumu, when you summon hunchback, sol tosses it and it will burn anything it touches. it does minimal damage, but I haven't really experimented with that feature otherwise. I plan to do some extensive testing with the unit. I used it in a free mission, where you have to fight a bunch of servants on a bridge. I "S" ranked it on hard pretty easily, thanks to the hunchback distracting all the enemies. it also seems that the unit has a short recovery time, so you can send out a second hunchback rather quickly. so far Hunchback's good points seem to be hitting enemies on spawn, blowing up when disappearing (nice damage output on that move, unlike his spawn, but he takes his time blowing up.), and having short recovery time (Item charge wise). since he's a mobile, he does good against armors and magics. the only problem is that it seems he can't take too much punishment, and he's slow and unaggressive. I will find out more on him soon, and see whether it's worth it to use the thing.

[PandaKingEX]

To me Paradigm is a character that you have to be confident in your skills as a player when using. My primary strategy with him is to get strategem ASAP, and simply overwhelm the opponent with tons of servants. I use bowers often, since they are fast, and hard to fight against when in large groups. Bonebiter is one of the first elites you want to go for, and you want him to hold down whichever path your choosing to get to your opponents masterghost. You want to get the elite magic turtle (forgot name) in your personal slot, so that he can help out with his freeze ability if you encounter the master. As for fighting with paradigm, the first hit of his x string is an amazing poke, tossing that often is a good poke and stuffs a lot of approaches that your opponent might make. The most important moves in Paradigms arsenal is his bombs and rolling moves. bombs can cross up your opponent from behind, if you lay the bomb near your, and then throw the second part behind your opponent. Also the bomb explosion is unblockable. Always keep a bomb next to you, and if you see your opponent charging towards you, throw the trigger out, and even if they hit you, they will get hit by the bomb. His rolling moves beat out basically everything, although they are not very safe, but when used properly, your opponent won't be able to get it together fast enough to punish you. You can try walking away from your opponent to pretend like your not paying attention to them, and when you see them running at you, just toss out the roll move. When guarding attacks you can jump up and use his aerial roll to get away, and usually hit them in the process as well, but don't become predictable with this. As for crimson jacket, I use it pretty much all the time. Boosted defense, and you won't get flinched as easily for the first 10 seconds, or so. That's the best time to get aggressive, since your opponent won't really be able to stop you that easily. It's also a great punishing tool as well, since you can use it to punish sidesteps. Most people will sidestep after the second hit in his neutral string, so you can just throw out crimson jacket, which will stop them, and set you up for a combo. Using jumps to escape attacks is something that a lot of people do. It's often a lot safer to use than sidestepping, but it depends on who you're fighting. Sol for instance is much easier to jump away from instead of sidestepping, and the best thing about jumping is that even if you get hit, it's not too bad, since you can tech much faster when being hit in the air, and people usually won't be able to react fast enough, or might not be using a move that can transition to an air combo, so I say that it's usually a lot safer to take a hit or two trying to jump away instead of getting one of your sidesteps punished, and then eating a 50% combo.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

You're thinking of the Dual Horn there Panda.

[Blackgenma]

EDIT: bah, never mind.

EDIT(2):anyway, on the subject of hunchback, I have concluded that, although it works well as a detraction for enemy servants, it dies too easily to be of any significant help, as it has VERY little health. it's too slow to be reliable in a masters confrontation as well, which is ironic, because it's supposed to be a "mobile" unit. It just doesn't have the life to make up for it's shortcommings, and it's few good points cannot justify taking up a spot in your inventory, or even the mana and tension it costs. the bottom line is that it stinks, your better off not using it.

EDIT(3): ok, if you REALLY do want to use hunchback, it isn't actually COMPLETLY useless, it just has a good chance of getting killed quickly. when you use it to fight armor or magic units, it can be a god send becuase of it's destraction of enemy units and the good damage output, despite it's low health, but ONLY if you use it for that purpose. when you summon it, his hunchback throw projectile will stop pretty much everything, so if you want to be different, use it for a master battle. don't expect anything from it in a master battle though, because it is a very slow and unaggresive unit (like ALL of Sol's non elite units). I'll repeat, it only good to support you for facing armors and magic units (even elites!, but it is there to support YOU, not to take on the forces single handedly.) but even then, it doesn't have a lot of health, so don't rely on his death explosion. Candy units kill Hunchback SUPER fast.

[NeoVid]

Well, hopefully JJJ2 will be getting his own damn copy of the game soon, so I can play again. I might be able to get on XBL starting sometime next month. He tells me that the competition in this game is scary tough, though. He just bought Raven, since he's found out that all the top JP players use him constantly, thanks to sharing Valentine's crazy good army, but he's actually good in combat, unlike her. Hey, when's the EU release date? Since there's going to be an influx of new players then, it's worth keeping in mind.

[Blackgenma]

crap, when I fought JJJJ2 I didn't take the opportunity to friend him. now I wanna fight against him again since he's actually continuing to play the game.

Panda said here on the boards earlier that overall, valentine is better than Raven due to lack of crowd control and his master vs master based skills, as opposed to her servant based skills, which are more important for victory. I'm sure raven's biggest advantage over valentine is that he is easy to play. I have trouble finding use for his special attacks. a nice thing about him is his (LO) 8x goes over mines without blowing up.

EDIT: also, if you couldn't tell by my avatar, big raven fan over here.

[NeoVid]

Panda said here on the boards earlier that overall, valentine is better than Raven due to lack of crowd control and his master vs master based skills, as opposed to her servant based skills, which are more important for victory.

Interesting... I've been hearing that the Masters with better armies and worse combat skills tend to do badly these days since people have learned to just hunt the Master down over and over.

And fortunately, 'JJJJJJ2' isn't an amazingly hard gamertag to remember.

EU release is in a week or two, isn't it? That should add to the community. It's interesting the three releases being a year apart looks like it helped keep the game alive...

[Blackgenma]

Interesting... I've been hearing that the Masters with better armies and worse combat skills tend to do badly these days since people have learned to just hunt the Master down over and over.

And fortunately, 'JJJJJJ2' isn't an amazingly hard gamertag to remember.

EU release is in a week or two, isn't it? That should add to the community. It's interesting the three releases being a year apart looks like it helped keep the game alive...

just how many J's does he have in his gamertag exactly?

about that strategy like you mentioned, I imagine you need considerable skill to actually pull it off, I myself haven't seen something like that in advance play. I've seen a video where someone finishes the match specifically by hunting down the enemy master at the end of the match, but not the whole time. Panda once told me he say Kimera cryin do exactly what you said though, like 100%. Panda said he went STRAIGHT to the master ghost and ambushed the opponent over and over, repeatedly killing him, right at the guy's master ghost. I would LOVE to see that in action. once again though, it's something that would require a considerable amount of skill in order to be viable, as it's certainly isn't an easy thing to do.

[PandaKingEX]

Tomorrow I'm going to be uploading a bunch of gg2 matches that I have had sitting around, but haven't bothered to upload, because uploading to youtube has become such a pain in the last year. Some of the matches are pretty old, but it's better than nothing.

[NeoVid]

just how many J's does he have in his gamertag exactly?

It's 6 J's.

He says that he sucks compared to most of the remaining players, but he hasn't been able to play nearly as much as them, so that's not surprising.

He did tell me he tries to friend everyone he plays against, but some people's friendslists were full when he sent the request. Thanks to his dedication, there is someone to teach the occasional new players he said has shown up recently.