gli Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Perhaps she does low damage but has better mix-up? I wouldn't mind that.
Soniti Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) The downside to j.2c not being jump cancelable is if the opponent is expecting it, they can use an invincible move (DP, invincible command grab, etc) to punish it on (instant?) block. Only way to avoid that would be to RC it. Despite that, I'm just glad it's usable in normal situations again. edit: oh yeah, for DPs you could cancel to chair, but that won't work vs command grabs... Edited November 17, 2010 by Soniti
TD Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 The test discourages the use of 5cc and encourages the use of 6cd. Really guys, 5cc causing slide limits our midscreen combos, but with 6cdc, who's going to even be midscreen? They want us to carry our opponents to the corner, and we have a phenominal way to do so. lmo rachel will once again be one of the hardest to play without anything too broken this time (figuratively in CT: literally in CS). l'm looking forward to a 'balanced' Rach.
K2 Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 i believe in arcsys total of 5 loketest we aren't here to play sf counter pick fighting games
NeoZero Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Wouldn't j.c lvl 2 bouncing higher be a good thing also? I mean if you follow up w/ BBL. It gives you more time to set up rods, george, and ect.
Sindelian Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'm not really sure why lvl2 j.2c is a nerf. The only think I can think of is that the spike loop is eliminated.
kirbster Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I guess with heat you could combo with BBL like before yeah, but no more meterless delayed 236B > j.C > j.C > air iris, which was really useful to get as much damage as possible off throws and CH cat punch/chair.
Kuuhaku Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) Wouldn't j.c lvl 2 bouncing higher be a good thing also? I mean if you follow up w/ BBL. It gives you more time to set up rods, george, and ect. Rachel could get decent damage off of level 2 j2C both mid-combo and as a starter. If it bounces higher, it does give you more setup time, but it also means she gets significantly less damage off of it. The j2C loops are probably the reason for this change. Due to stunedge's post of the "vision" of CS2 Rachel, we shouldn't lose hope yet. She's supposed to do more damage and Tempest Dahlia is supposed to not be just a troll move. So they might scale back some of these changes for the final release. JPN have already noted that her damage sucks again, so they'll probably bring it up. Just cross your fingers. Rachel: Tempest Dalia is a better move now. She has more combo options and will do more damage Edited November 17, 2010 by Bohemian Polka
currentlemon Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Speaking of j.2c, I believe you can use it for cross-ups and combos. You can do 5b(CH)>j.2cd>5b>6cd for some good damage. Problem is that it costs 2 wind stocks. It's just a guess though.
Soniti Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 We get to go into 6cd and still hit j.c on crouching, unlike CT. Yay.
Kane Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'm suprised no-one has talked about how 6C forces standing on hit. This is incredible. Everyone is saying mid-screen dmg is going to be garbage in CS2, well Rachel doesn't need to do mid-screen combos anymore, she can just combo into 6CD and push the opponent to the corner, guaranteed every time, plus you get good damage off it anyway. Plus wind effect is stronger in CS2, so maybe you'll only need to do one 6CD which saves on wind. 5B > 6CD > j.2C > 5B > 5CC (in corner) 214A > 3C > 236A etc etc. Looking at these changes, the simple factor of Rachel being able to force the opponent to the corner guaranteed on hit (plus her insane oki/mix-up game is back) will make her high/top tier.
GenoWhirl Posted November 17, 2010 Author Posted November 17, 2010 Tee hee 5B 6B 6C I thought I'd never see the day
Kuuhaku Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 We have been talking about 6CD and how that'll probably become her main BnB if 5CC stays dead, and I doubt it'll carry them that far since wind is noted to just affect her air-dash speed. We'll probably still need to do two reps. Looking at these changes, the simple factor of Rachel being able to force the opponent to the corner guaranteed on hit (plus her insane oki/mix-up game is back) will make her high/top tier. Lololol. No. JPN have already said Rachel is hard to win with. Everyone else has methods to corner carry too. From the sounds of it, if these stick she'll probably either be mid-low or low. But at least she'll be competitive (hopefully).
currentlemon Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 If the changes stay, I doubt Rachel will be mid-low or low. Remember anything can happen, we'll just wait and see.
Rhannmah Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 Seems like arcsys is doing something right this time. Taking the opponent to the corner and raping them there style gameplay absolutely compensates for the reduced mid-screen comboability. I love it.
Alzarath Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 I came when I heard 6c forces stand. Twice. Resets ahoy?! =]
currentlemon Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 So 5cc causes a slide and not a spin. Is the wall bounce still possible?
Kuuhaku Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 As far as I know, no. Arcsys decided they hate loops.
currentlemon Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 Just one more question. Since 6b causes a slide on counter hit, is it literally impossible to combo at mid-screen? What I'm meaning to say is, is that is it still possible to cancel 6b(CH)>214c.
GenoWhirl Posted November 21, 2010 Author Posted November 21, 2010 If there's a pole at the other end of the screen, then yes
TD Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 Rachel is looking sooo hype. lf george is fixed correctly she may very well be deemed "Corner Queen" once again. But she faces competition this time. Jin and most rushdown characters have also gained/improved wall rape, and this is bad for our delicious loli, as her defense isn't great, and ib being nerfed is a double edged sword. ln addition, there's Litchi who competed with her for top rapist even in CT. Let's hope Rachel can thrive in CSll. l'm going to get back into using her now.
Rhannmah Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 Remember that now, most ground normals are unblockable in the air unless you use barrier, so her corner game is going to be a lot deadlier, on this fact alone. Also, as for loops, I don't know if cc slides instead of wall bouncing if it hits the opponent in the air, but if it does, there might be a very easy cc loop in the corner, unless the slide time is REALLY short.
Soniti Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Some bad news, guys. H.H has been streaming on ustream and showing me possible CSII setups + answering questions. some things he clarified for me: j.2c is NOT an overhead in CSII you can NOT jump-cancel it pumpkin summoning time did NOT change lobelias still lose to projectiles For the JP savvy: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11003099 Basically, we have to work in ways to use j.a as an overhead, and do good mixup during blocked frogs. Edited November 21, 2010 by Soniti
unsanctifier Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Some bad news, guys. H.H has been streaming on ustream and showing me setups + answering questions. some things he clarified for me: j.2c is NOT an overhead in CSII you can NOT jump-cancel it pumpkin summoning time did NOT change lobelias still lose to projectiles WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT!? Would've been nice to have J2C as an overhead, but the loebila being still useless as shit and pumpin not coming out faster really makes me sad. Edited November 21, 2010 by unsanctifier
Skye Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 But how about that increased damage and other buffs?
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