Skye Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 You guys really need to try to look at ways to deal with the nerfs instead of putting your character in a wheelchair before you've ever played him. Seriously. Even if you're right, you should learn to deal with it or switch characters if it's too large a problem. Start ideating ways around his new problems so that when they're there, you won't be SOL. Thanks for your optimism Dacid. People here are simply worried, and why shouldn't they be? His primary overhead is slower His cloud is slower Party Bug is summoned further Curse on block is nerfed He has no loops in curse Curse damage has been nerfed Jump is now the slowest Back dash is more stiff So telling just by the loctest, my personal verdict notwithstanding; He has no mix ups no offense no defense no zoning No mix ups mean that he won't do very well vs a turtling opponent, since curse on block is nerfed, he can't do much, his slow overhead is even slower, he can't get any real ground and zone, cloud is slower, bell is summon further and j.d still doesn't trade. And even on the rare instance he gets curse, the damage have been nerfed, and slower overhead still plays a part here. But this is just for the time being. The only optimism we have to hold onto is remembering we have a second DD. The new 6b is nice though, but with no mix up, it's pretty useless. Now personally, his punishing game got aesthetically better, but everything else is overall worse than how he was in CS1. This isn't really pessimism, but simply the facts given. Now a few of us are discussing how to work around them, but other than l2block and doing 1 rep of every curse loop we have, there isn't much to work with. How do we work around a slower 6a, you (allegedly) 2d that shit on reaction, how are we going to work around that? The question of his air combos and dive cancels are thrown into question about his 6 frame jump. His best defensive maneuver is toned down, his back dash, so he's stuck blocking, which I already do unless I fear getting mixed up. But how do we work around less curse meter with block with even worse mix up than we came in with? How do we work around slower and less involved zoning? His zoning was already the weakest in the game precurse. Tager's 5c zoned better than Arakune. Some things don't have a work around.
tolore Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 The problem is we all(most?) already hated pre curse arakune(IMO he's boring, has very little options and is frustrating), and he's basically only getting nerfs. Though admittedly I'm not all that pessimistic about it, I think the changes to air super could be awesome enough, and the 6B being it's own move could also be pretty amazing. edit: arakune already had no mixups pre curse, 6A nerf just means instead of being blocked always people may just jab you out of it. edit again: I think the real questions on 6B are, how good is it as a poke, does it beat out a lot of stuff? Also what are it's counter hit property.
firesoul1 Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 You know as kune players, we have to give ourselves a hand because even with all the nerfs there will be a time when squiggly can continue to annoy the shit out of people.
Stafy Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 His backdash startup frames are fine. His backdash isn't completely shit unless everyone got faster or can get to his distance that quick. And really I think we shouldn't worry about "OH GOD NO MORE LOOPS" because they're eventually going to be found. Carl needs to find more loops in CS2 as well. Everyone basically needed to find new ways to do huge damage, which means new combos for everyone almost. I still hold optimism for him being an alright character because it'll be worked around when we get to develop as him again.
InspectorOda Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 By his cloud being slower, was it the summoning animation or the cloud movement itself that was nerfed? Also, if 5C didn't get any nerfs at all, won't we still be able to do pretty ridiculous damage in the corner with 5C bug only loops?
Dacidbro Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 As 6A goes, 2Ding it is technically an incorrect response, because you can jump cancel and punish the whiff. I found that out later. I think Arakune will likely be a decent amount of frame traps. While you see all of his nerfs, there could be subtle buffs too. Especially since you have 6B out of 5A now, that could be a highly useful tool. In a way though, I think you're right, it'll be hard to discover much useful til the patch.
tolore Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Most definitely, I think one of arakune's biggest weaknesses is that he has no good normals for the mid range ground game, 5B and 2A are alright but he gets nothing off those without being REALLY close to them, if I can poke in mid range and beat stuff out with 6B, get across the screen knockdown and some curse that could be a HUGE buff to precurse game.
Dacidbro Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 On a lot of characters 2A > 2D works pretty well to intentionally uncombo and get some on block.
Skye Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Maybe on CH, but any player worth their salt knows that they can IB the first hit and run straight past the second, 2d is an okay zoning tool, but absolutely nothing worth relying on. Hell the active frames are so janky, they can run past it without the attack even connecting.
Stafy Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Yes, and while it isn't a lot, especially after patch, curse is still curse and we need as much as well could get. There is also 2A 2C RC 5D j.a[xN] j.c j.5d for a good chunk of curse assuming you have the meter. However, I am not sure how the jump change will effect our dive loops.
firesoul1 Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Yes, and while it isn't a lot, especially after patch, curse is still curse and we need as much as well could get. There is also 2A 2C RC 5D j.a[xN] j.c j.5d for a good chunk of curse assuming you have the meter. However, I am not sure how the jump change will effect our dive loops. He getting the slowest jump so somethings may not be as smooth as before.
tolore Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 even 2A 2C doesn't work from all ranged on 2A hit, though it's much better than 6B and 5D.
Mumm-Ra Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 Something regarding Arakune's jump, no idea what it says, though. Maybe it got faster? Maybe its not fast enough? I can't translate it properly.
AdamNW Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 According to google: Rate is accelerated? (Part 2 j f or price move was delayed?) I'm guessing it got faster. Loketests make me bitch about Arakune. Oh hey, it's this again. Well, on the bright side, at least we are confirmed to have a solid Ara now:eng101:
RaKune Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 The problem is we all(most?) already hated pre curse arakune(IMO he's boring, has very little options and is frustrating), and he's basically only getting nerfs. Though admittedly I'm not all that pessimistic about it, I think the changes to air super could be awesome enough, and the 6B being it's own move could also be pretty amazing. edit: arakune already had no mixups pre curse, 6A nerf just means instead of being blocked always people may just jab you out of it. edit again: I think the real questions on 6B are, how good is it as a poke, does it beat out a lot of stuff? Also what are it's counter hit property. They can allready jab you out of 6a so imagine a 5b from ragna instead now that 6a is slower ugh.
Mumm-Ra Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 Well, on the bright side, at least we are confirmed to have a solid Ara now:eng101: Confirmed by who? Google translator? I've got someone who says its "not fast enough?" instead of "rate accelerated?", but then again he's not really sure.
King_Slime Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Well, on the bright side, at least we are confirmed to have a solid Ara now Because....our jump was probably reverted back to normal speed (still just speculation) that somehow negates how they're making our horrible normals even worse, no mixup, no defense thanks to slow backdash, and less curse? This all equates to more time spent being in pre-curse. Sounds real solid.... I think it's time for a new main. Haha...I'm just joking. I stuck with Johnny in GGAC so I'll stick with Arakune as well. But seriously, it looks like Ara is going to be the new CS Rachel.
LordSpectreX Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Glad you would still main him. But I sure won't. Good thing I've been learning Jin. How is the new 6B move useful in any way? It's one frame quicker than 5A but has much longer recovery and less range.
kousaka Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 hmm what does the last nerf say about cloud? You can cloud 6 times per round only?
zdravkelja Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I it is what I think it is, they slowed it's moving speed.
Mumm-Ra Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 These loketest changes discussion threads in the gameplay forum have been more and more half-assed, they didn't even fully translate all the changes, what the fuck. So I hope they made Arakune's jump faster, I'd be happy with a 4f jump, not fucking Tager's jump, although thats not in the blog, but in the wiki... The wiki has also this, wich didn't get translated. ゲージや烙印を付けたい場合、ある程度差し合いをする必要が出てきた。 And regarding cloud, wiki says something about lasting 6... something, seconds? times? and the blog says it got slower. Well, we'll have to wait for the final build/next loketest I guess
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