kaworu Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 anima super armor isn't confirmed anymore iirc. let's hope it's actually in. only thing I'm hype about now is damage buffs to nirvana moves. :] Oh shit... I was looking forward to Anima super armor for when she's at the other side of the screen and people are trying to jab her to death. What damage buffs has Nirvana's moves had?
Zoogstin Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Good 3D, clap 2 primers, Brio wallbounce, 6D CH wallbounce, Anima Super Armor, j.B untechable Bad j.2C nerf, 3C no OTG, clap unblockable gone, j.B fatal gone, j.C knockdown, Ada Super start up nerf, damage nerfed Still, most of the other characters have been nerfed pretty bad too so Carl may still be pretty good in comparison. Can anyone compile a full list of all changes from CS to CSII? j.C knockdown isn't necessarily a nerf considering how we can still do juggle combos with it... Also can you compile a list considering how just made a small one in your post? Lastly I'm now having a hard time imagining how to use 3D as a pickup (if its in) when Carl has no non-CH moves the leave the opponent on the ground besides a forward throw. =/ My guess is that it will be good for when we condition the opponent to not tech during certain oki setups. In that case if they insist on just staying on the ground (like the people that I play do) you can hit them with 3D.
ZONG_one Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Oh shit... I was looking forward to Anima super armor for when she's at the other side of the screen and people are trying to jab her to death. What damage buffs has Nirvana's moves had? Thanks for the list Cassius. So far looking at the frame data (if I'm reading this right at all): -5C's initial proration (P1) got nerfed from 100 -> 85 -j.B's P1 got nerfed from 100-> 90 -6D got a damage nerf and P2 nerf. The damage went from 960->760 and the P2 went from 85->80 -2D got a HUGE damage buff from 720->1220 but a P2 nerf from 90->80. Both of those are huge jumps -4D got a damage buff: The first hit does the same amount of damage as CS1 but the second hit went from 780->880 -8D got a damage buff on the first hit. It went from 720->920. the second wave does the same as CS1. Initial proration of the first wave also got increased from 85->90. For P2 the first waves proration got buffred from 85->92 but the second wave's proration got nerfed from 90->80 -Brio's damage was buffed. The first hit does the same damage as CS1 but the second hit went from 800->1000 -Anima's damage was buffed from 1500->1800 but P2 got prorated from 80->70 (not like anyone would use it in a combo anyways) Can't make out the rest Since proration got worse for a lot of her moves, and midscreen combos are shorter/less damaging for most of the cast, we're going to need these buffs. I'm glad about these, at least.
Zoogstin Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Thanks Zong. Kaworu sorry dude but you gotta look around a bit more. I posted those changes towards the end of the previous page.
Mightfo Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Wait, didn't 8D fully unblockable come back in the 4th/5th loketest, or was that just false information?
ZONG_one Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Nope. It just has to be barrier'd. :] 2 primers though. I'm hoping for 4 primer blockstrings.
Zoogstin Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 As far as I know everyone can crouch 8D. We would need to make them want to stand or jump. =/
Zeero Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 2 primers and guard break means nothing to me if theres no damage involved =(
ZONG_one Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 As far as I know everyone can crouch 8D. We would need to make them want to stand or jump. =/ I'm thinking more like j.A shenanigans into (2) 8D's. 2 primers and guard break means nothing to me if theres no damage involved =( Yeah, I know. :[ We'll see though, it's only day 2.
Zeero Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 I'll miss 6k combo from throws =( not like i can do them consistently anyway >_>
ZONG_one Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 I'll miss 6k combo from throws =( not like i can do them consistently people get thrown anymore anyway >_>
JG Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Like you Zong i just want the damage, who read this: Carl Looks like quite a bunch of the good things he had received in the last loke test are actually gone. I couldn't confirm by myself for anima having super armor and 3D forcing standing but comments on the BBS strongly hints that they have been implemented. His damage is indeed sensibly weaker. For now I can't really think of any other way to get close to 4000 dmg except the old juggle combos ended by a super. And j2C doesn't bounces THAT much higher than before I think, although most ground strings involving j2C without allecan might not be possible anymore. All the stuff I translated before is I think valid, although 6A is really good but not almighty like one of my translations suggested. At least I got punished a few times for missing the timing. + 2B to 5B gatlings seems to be in from what I saw from another Carl player (forgot to try by myself) o jC : to clarify things a bit about this move, first it does only knockdown on air hit. Which means you can still use it as before for sandwich loops (well except it lost its gatlings to jB and j2C). Second, the opponent can emergency tech only, meaning that you can't combo the opponent when he is down. And third, the opponent doesn't falls really fast, in fact you can still use jC as before in 2D combos and when you land after finishing an air combo with it you are in the perfect timing for an okizeme if the opponent techs. o Fuoco : same as CS1 ie not guaranteed to come out if interrupted o Volante : same as CS1 ie no projectile armor + Brio : the move changed, blows the opponent far away and grants a small wallbounce if close enough to the wall. It's a pretty high wallbounce though, limiting the combo options to I believe something like high jump jB, jC - A vivace seems to have no invincibility at all What the... so Fuooco and Volante are the same? fuck. Also we CAN´T Link j2.c with J.B and J.C... And the new j.C dosnt look too good also. His damage is indeed sensibly weaker. Please that can´t be true....
Mascarpone Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 .. so nirvana can still be punching-bagged by opponents, dies faster when hit by opponents, and we don't have damage anymore? and the brio wall-stick is unimpressive...? i'm not sure i'm okay with this.
soujiro seta Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) Hmmm, I hope carl's damage isn't too low. I mean I'm seeing 4-5k combos for the other characters from random starters, and they're having trouble getting to 4k without a DD with him o_O. This means he got around 3-3.2k (midscreen?) without the DD, but off what starter (j.2C allecan? 5B? maybe)? It's just day 2, but the thing is we already know how carls combos work. His CS2 combos will still be similar to CS1. I don't know what combo's they've done and off what starters, so that needs clarification. Damage is a huge part of his game, and if he's getting out damaged easily then it will be hard for him to keep up. Nirvana's moves getting buffed is good at least. So getting hit by her hurts a little more now, although people don't randomly get hit by her that much anyway. I can understand taking away volante projectile armor as that can give zoners some trouble, but not taking away fuoco always come out?. If they thought that was too good then they could have made it like 4D (super armor but if carl is hit or put in block stun then she'll stop). Fuoco is almost useless against characters with safe fullscreen pokes (litchi, haku, haz, etc) and it can be jumped over so easily by everyone. After a guard break, assuming carl can even guard break, a combo starter off anima might be a good idea at least. I really need to see footage to see how he stacks up to the others, cause on paper he sounds....like he's going to have a lot of problems. Especially the damage part. Seeing so many 4-5k combos from other characters and hearing he needs a DD to reach 4k doesn't help either. Edited December 10, 2010 by soujiro seta
soujiro seta Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) .. so nirvana can still be punching-bagged by opponents, dies faster when hit by opponents, and we don't have damage anymore? and the brio wall-stick is unimpressive...? i'm not sure i'm okay with this. The dies faster part is vague cause it depends on the player, but I hope they're wrong. If she dies fast, then how are you going to approach, and play the footsies/poking/spacing game? Especially considering that she'll take a lot of hits in the process. They said she regenerates fast, but that doesn't help if she dies fast from being a punching bag and doesn't have enough health for carl to mount any sort of pressure/offense/deal damage once he gets in. Footage is needed to clarify a lot of things. Cause right now I already see some problems with his CS2 design. Nirvna dieing fast and low damage are two of them, but those weren't specific so we'll have to wait and see. Edited December 10, 2010 by soujiro seta
Akiro Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Im ok with the j.c change seeing as how we can still combo out out it. Cantata's start up being longer and the j.2c change is the only two things that are bugging me. I mean, do we really need to be hit out of cantata even more then we are already?
ZONG_one Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 I think it's so that we don't get hit pre-super flash and still lose the meter. It's probably for the best.
Adelheid Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Reversal Cantata was always kind of a scrubby use of meter anyway. Using it to set up unblocks still works fine, so there's no real issue from my perspective.
Dream Maker Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Just some precisions about my last post in the changes thread : j2C's bounce is really not that bad. I said that ground strings like j2C, jB, jC might not be possible anymore but haven't tried myself neither seen that myself. And some posters in the BBS suggest otherwise as some combos they posted involve j2C, jB, jC ground strings. Saw that only after posting. Might be height dependent if this change is really meaningful. Nirvana indeed seems to die faster than before, but I'd say it depends on your playstyle. During my games I have been very conservative with Nirvana, keeping an eye on her gauge and letting her time to regenerate when needed and she died only a very few times when I wasn't very attentive. I guess players who try to use her as before, ie use her recklessly to approach their opponent and don't mind her dying at the end of long combos will probably be annoyed due to the very slow regen speed when she dies.
JG Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Just some precisions about my last post in the changes thread : j2C's bounce is really not that bad. I said that ground strings like j2C, jB, jC might not be possible anymore but haven't tried myself neither seen that myself. And some posters in the BBS suggest otherwise as some combos they posted involve j2C, jB, jC ground strings. Saw that only after posting. Might be height dependent if this change is really meaningful. Nirvana indeed seems to die faster than before, but I'd say it depends on your playstyle. During my games I have been very conservative with Nirvana, keeping an eye on her gauge and letting her time to regenerate when needed and she died only a very few times when I wasn't very attentive. I guess players who try to use her as before, ie use her recklessly to approach their opponent and don't mind her dying at the end of long combos will probably be annoyed due to the very slow regen speed when she dies. Dude, i really appreciate the work that you have done to inform us about CS 2 Carl changes. I’m really thankfully to you. Quick question, is Carl your main? If that so, what do you think about Carl in Cs2? Do you think that he is going to be a strong character? Also, can we still do Volante and 4]D[ combo? Anyway, thank for your support = ) Edited December 11, 2010 by JG
ioKain Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Man, what's really worrying me is defense. They took away invinc. from vivace a, we didn't get vivace b invinc., and Cantata is nerfed. WTF, his defense options were already terrible and now they are worse. With the reports of how Tager is raping primers, we might be in big trouble.
soujiro seta Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) S(God Like): Arakune A(Strong): Makoto, Noel, Tsubaki, Valkenhyne B(So-so): Ragna, Jin, Tager, Hakumen, Rachel, Hazama, Litchi, Lambda, Taokaka, Carl C(hmm): Platinum, Bang, Mu Carl: oki from JC knockdown is very strong, but he lost JB FC, reversal super and many other stuff. Nirvana moves faster but costs more meter I could already see a lot of problems with his CS2 design, and they seem to be showing in the early stages. It's just 3 days in so I hope things shape up for the better. I also hope CS2 can be patched via Nesica just incase some BS is found out later. Edited December 11, 2010 by soujiro seta
soujiro seta Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Now I really want to see him. Lol, I don't know how many carls are in the japan, but right about now I wouldn't even mind seeing a batch of Dio vids, lol.
JG Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Carl will climb to the TOP and be A tier!! Remember my wordsSSSssSS!!!!! xD
soujiro seta Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Carl will climb to the TOP and be A tier!! Remember my wordsSSSssSS!!!!! xD Hahaha. I personally just don't want him to suck. He'll definitely get better though, hopefully. It's just an initial couple of days impresseion list, so it doesn't really mean much in the long run, unless you're ara who will most likely still be SS down the road.
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