huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Well at least there's only so many setups, right? Right? ...guys? only her jump cancelable normals... you have a point!
Guardian Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Jumping out of wolf mixup? Yea just keep doing that and see how far you get against a GOOD Valk. I stand by my previous statements. His mixup is as good as millia's. Everyone here knows you can't block A GOOD Millia on reaction EVERY TIME. Just because he can't directly pressure SRK/reversal characters on wake up doesn't mean he can't wake them up. A whiffed SRK is still 7K+ in CS2 in the corner. It's good to see lively debate every now and then, even if it does possess slight layers of ego lol
huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 i like big damage. i like to keep wolf out so wolf doesn't rape me with mixup. i heard wolf transformation has startup so i use that time to jump.
Guardian Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Wolf 5C command grab beats all jump attempts. Next?
huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 i also have a 5 frame jab, which is 7 frames in the air.
Nakkiel Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Jumping out of wolf mixup? Yea just keep doing that and see how far you get against a GOOD Valk. You can say that when you're better than ours EDIT: When I say jump out, I'm specifically talking about after blocking the first wolf mixup where it's pretty much free if they go for anything else besides an airtight string. You can also just hit them out with 5A/2A at the same spot. And his mixup isn't even close to as good as Millia's, I'm sorry but no Edited April 11, 2011 by sG
Sahgren Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 If I'm reading the Valk frame data for CS2 correctly, wolf cancel allows for action after 19 frames, but there isn't any difference in animation for what direction the Valk is going to move until frame 11 (When 4D/7D start moving backwards). You'd have to play yomi mindgames with the Valk to insure that he isn't going [W]j.A to stop you midjump, then follow up with air-unblockable 5B or tick c-grab.
Guardian Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 i also have a 5 frame jab, which is 7 frames in the air. This just gets you counter grabbed. [w]236A on the ground beats most people's jab spam. On CH you can get almost 3.5k from anywhere on the screen, and it will still work in CS2. sG- I'm not better than most people here, I just know what he's capable of.
huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) If I'm reading the Valk frame data for CS2 correctly, wolf cancel allows for action after 19 frames, but there isn't any difference in animation for what direction the Valk is going to move until frame 11 (When 4D/7D start moving backwards). You'd have to play yomi mindgames with the Valk to insure that he isn't going [W]j.A to stop you midjump, then follow up with air-unblockable 5B or tick c-grab. 19 frames dash + jB startup... i think i have enough time to jump out. how do i get ch grab if you transform into wolf and then try to command grab me? Edited April 11, 2011 by huey253
C0R Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 19 frames dash + jB startup... i think i have enough time to jump out. I think he can begin the wolf cancel after the first active frame of say, 6c, meaning you'd still be in ground blockstun by the time the j.b was starting up.
Sahgren Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Just keep in mind that, like everyone else, the Valk can read the jump away and chase you down mid air. And it doesn't have to be j.B, j.A is faster, has more hitstop for confirming what the opponent is doing, and allows for more comboability for confirming hits on airborne opponents.
Guardian Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 19 frames dash + jB startup... i think i have enough time to jump out. how do i get ch grab if you transform into wolf and then try to command grab me? If I do the C dash out of wolf, I'm in the air. If you try to do j.A, you get counter grabbed. His aerial command grab has OUTRAGEOUS vertical range. Sample setup: 236A hits, D cancel, 3 way mix up+many options: 3D cancel into Command Grab on the ground 3D cancel into [w]5A 6D cancel into [w]j.B or j.A, both will beat most peoples jab spam attempts If you jump, 6D cancel into command grab gets you out of the air. If you jump mash, you get counter grabbed. 7D~C~D cancel gets you safely away from SRKs and reversals, giving you time to punish whiffs with 6B for a FC, or 5C CH, 236C into 4k+ I can stay in human and spam 2A since I have +frames If I have 50% I can do j.C RC j.C land, combo for 4k+ If you can guess correctly out of all of that, consistently, EVERYTIME, then you my friend, are SBO material, and we mere mortals can only quiver at your monumental presence.
Nakkiel Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 IBing 236A shuts most, if not all of those options down. Unless you literally meant on hit.
huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 he is saying, if you were to get combo'd by valkenhayn, you could set up this mixup.. this setup is for combos right?
Guardian Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 I'm definitely talking about on hit. However he has many ways of sneaking wolf transformations in pressure.
aaronyu2 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Why would anyone be trying to jump when they're getting hit?
Sahgren Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Why would anyone be trying to jump when they're getting hit? People also mash 720/DP when getting hit. Noone said that people always do the optimal thing.
Nini Heart Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 is there a player out there who can react to 12 frames?? I'm super curious so please tell me who are the players you're thinking of with that reaction xP Marvel players.
StarryShade Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Loving all these players who don't even use Valkenhayn up in this nigga.
TD Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Why would anyone be trying to jump when they're getting hit? l almost spit out my coffee.
Sahgren Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Meh, at least the discussion is a bit more practical this time, at least for players like me who are still learning Valk. It's not a bad thing having people put up situations where the opponent can escape from your setup, and see if you can provide a practical example of how to beat it.
Nakkiel Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Loving all these players who don't even use Valkenhayn up in this nigga. having good, knowledgeable players in your scene usually teaches you stuff so yeah that happens
GenoWhirl Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 I honestly think the best way to win with Valk is spam unsafe shit and wolf invul their ass into 4K. I wish I had a scene here :U
huey253 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 having good, knowledgeable players in your scene usually teaches you stuff so yeah that happens implying that you are good ^^
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