New Guilty Gear?

[Wirya]

Also important is to make every character has a very unique playstyle that is easy to understand (like I said, with as few external helps as possible). AC is, again, on the right track to this.

[IronTager]

3D graphics are easier from a development perspective, especially since for the high-res sprites they're doing in BlazBlue they actually make 3D models first and then rotoscope them, so the models are already there and animated. Why bother with all that extra time and energy?

You're also assuming that the system is going to undergo major changes. Nothing like that is confirmed, or even mentioned. Maybe losing FRCs and Slashback, maybe, but that's all we have so far.

Furthermore, the reason this information was pulled was because of bullshit like this. You guys are flying off the handle based on, what, second-hand information from two sources that were drinking at the time. Sit down, play Accent Core, and just fucking wait.

*Shrug* No need to get iffy, this is more of a "If" it happens thing.

@Unsanctifier

"Then why isn't it popular?"

Sorry man, I don't think that's a very good argument. Have you seen what people like in America? : S And it's mainly America that it's not popular. Personally, I think the better something is, the more Americans are driven away from it (Though, that's kind of a stupid thing to say. It's more a generalization and half joke.) After all, the most popular fighting game was Street Fighter 4 based on almost on the sole factor of nostalgia. I won't hate on SF4, but I will say that it was faaaaar from perfect.

Anyhow, as far as a marketing perspective, I sadly agree that you're right. By simplifying the game, it'll market better and more people will want to play it. Why? Because apparently, they're too lazy to take the time to learn the depth of the game and enjoy it for it's depth. If all they're doing is making combos just a little easier, fine. But I kinda liked that Guilty Gear didn't rely on getting 100% consistent combos every time and let so many small variables change your combos. *Sigh* Ah well.

*Hugs my copy of Accent Core* ;-;

[Wirya]

Scrubs actually don't care if a FG is deep or shallow. As long as they can play the game "good enough" (by this I mean they can have enough fun), all is good. And making a FG easy-to-understand is fundamental in this matter.

[unsanctifier]

*Shrug* No need to get iffy, this is more of a "If" it happens thing.

@Unsanctifier

"Then why isn't it popular?"

Sorry man, I don't think that's a very good argument. Have you seen what people like in America? : S And it's mainly America that it's not popular. Personally, I think the better something is, the more Americans are driven away from it (Though, that's kind of a stupid thing to say. It's more a generalization and half joke.) After all, the most popular fighting game was Street Fighter 4 based on almost on the sole factor of nostalgia. I won't hate on SF4, but I will say that it was faaaaar from perfect.

Anyhow, as far as a marketing perspective, I sadly agree that you're right. By simplifying the game, it'll market better and more people will want to play it. Why? Because apparently, they're too lazy to take the time to learn the depth of the game and enjoy it for it's depth. If all they're doing is making combos just a little easier, fine. But I kinda liked that Guilty Gear didn't rely on getting 100% consistent combos every time and let so many small variables change your combos. *Sigh* Ah well.

*Hugs my copy of Accent Core* ;-;

So you're saying this game is VERY popular everywhere else? =\

[Seku]

So you're saying this game is VERY popular everywhere else? =\

It's popular here, it's just that the fact that it's hard drives people away.

I assume this is the case elsewhere.

[unsanctifier]

It's popular here, it's just that the fact that it's hard drives people away.

I assume this is the case elsewhere.

If people don't play it then there is no crowd for it, meaning it isn't really that popular among people. This is what they want fixed.

[IronTager]

If people don't play it then there is no crowd for it, meaning it isn't really that popular among people. This is what they want fixed.

Well, I'm more or less saying that other than the USA, there are other places it's played often enough. Mostly Japan though, so it's popular in it's own country. Plus, it's popular enough in America to have a fighting game scene considering it isn't a Capcom game. *Shock*

But my point was really that, something doesn't have to be popular to be perfect. I personally think that Ocean's Etude by Frederic Chopin is an almost perfect piece... The majority thinks Bad Romance by Lady Gaga is... "-_- But anyhow, catch my drift? : )

I just want a good old fashion, down to heart Guilty.

*Things I want*

- I want the damage modifier to remain the same. It was one of the things that made the balancing system genius. Even a character that did crap damage but had great pressures could get good damage to his pressures. And characters who did really good damage get it reduced so it won't just continue on forever. Also, it made doing extended combos almost pointless unless you were going for a bit of extra damage to finish off the opponent for good.

- Managed Burst System. I want the burst to be the same as it is. If you hit your opponent with it, you gain a certain amount back. You gold burst and you get full super. You miss, you get nothing. For the less health you have, the faster it recovers. Down to every detail.

- Prorating. I'm sure this will be in the game, so I'll move on.

- Still somewhat strict False Romans. I know 1-2 frames might be a bit much, but still. If they are gonna make them easier, they should still be pretty strict. You're using up only 25% of tension while cancelling, having faster recover than even a roman which costs 50% tension.

- I want all the characters that were in AC to be in the next Guilty Gear as well and hope they don't change too much from their former state. Maybe some added moves here and there.

- Honestly, I really would prefer 2D Sprites. But if they're going to do 3D, at least I hope they don't make them look like utter crap just like SF4 did.

- I want the speed of the game to remain around the same. Guilty Gear feels so freeflowing because of that speed. Guilty Gear is a very fast paced game in my honest opinion.

- I don't want anything to be ridiculously obvious. For example, in Blazblue, I can see something from miles away and usually have a decent way of reacting to it. In Guilty Gear, so much happens so fast, you have to kind of predict what's going to happen next and how to deal with it before it does.

- New characters hopefully (and most likely). If this does happen, I can't wait to see what Arc System does for the character to make him/her/them unique. (Duh)

- I want the game to be balanced and fine. One thing for example is, I don't want Bridget to be crap (nor Johnny). Of course, Guilty Gear has always been good about this in general cause it seems like every and any character can win in the game. To put what I mean simply is, I hope that everyone has a really good advantage.

Anyhow, these are just some of the important details (in my opinion). There are other things such as the Guts system and so on. *Sigh* Anyhow, those are just a few things on my "wish list"

[HiagoX]

Well, I'm more or less saying that other than the USA, there are other places it's played often enough. Mostly Japan though, so it's popular in it's own country. Plus, it's popular enough in America to have a fighting game scene considering it isn't a Capcom game.

Very true. We have a lot of GG players in Brazil as well, and I'm not even joking. I'm sure most of us here in Brazil wouldn't want Guilty Gear to go through such changes, but the way I see it, it's really inevitable. However if you ask me, the only feature I wouldn't want they to remove from the game or make it consistently easier are FRCs. Those make shit so good.

However just like Wirya said, we can only pray.

[Hecatom]

its the same here on Honduras there is a lot of players, dedicated and casuals, and even the casuals doesnt want to see this changes, even when they cant do a frc

[unsanctifier]

IronTager:

I'm on your side of this WHOLE thing. I really and truly am. But I'm just arguing from the business perspective. We may know hundreds, maybe thousands of people who play GG. But the point is, you won't walk into a game store and see hype for it like SF4 hype. You can't walk down the street and ask people if they play or even KNOW GG, but there is a better chance they know SF(X). This is what they want fixed. To us it is an amazing game, to the majority of people it is a different story. I just want people to understand that these games won't keep coming out if they can't make Y profit out of it. I love GG, GGAC is fucking godlike.

[IronTager]

IronTager:

I'm on your side of this WHOLE thing. I really and truly am. But I'm just arguing from the business perspective. We may know hundreds, maybe thousands of people who play GG. But the point is, you won't walk into a game store and see hype for it like SF4 hype. You can't walk down the street and ask people if they play or even KNOW GG, but there is a better chance they know SF(X). This is what they want fixed. To us it is an amazing game, to the majority of people it is a different story. I just want people to understand that these games won't keep coming out if they can't make Y profit out of it. I love GG, GGAC is fucking godlike.

Yeah... I do see your point man. It hurts to say it, but you are right. GG might not get SF4's hype (It not being Street Fighter and all), and making it simpler may appeal to the mainstream more. *Sigh* Well, I guess we'll see what happens. God Help us all. (Partly joking with this last sentence)

[smooshman]

making it simpler may appeal to the mainstream more.

or they could put out a preview with the badass combos in the game and watch people go "ooooo ahhhhh"

[unsanctifier]

But people are noobs and say. LOL I AM NOT JAPANESE I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT WITH MY LIFE.

Then go play SF for hours and hours to link cr.mk to cr.rh lol

[HiagoX]

Actually, one of the reasons BlazBlue attracted that many people is because of that "animu feeling". Guilty Gear lacks the weaboo animu feeling, so...

[bbq sauce]

Creating a hardcore game that can also attract the attention of more casual gamers...

MvC2

[Hecatom]

i think that people need to understand that GG would be more mainstream with more advertisement without the need of dumbing down the game

casuals would dont really care if the game has or doesnt have those mechanics, hell im sure that they even know that they are there

just look at mvc2 all the casuals cant even in their dreams make anything of the high level play but they still enjoy the game

what arc should be seeking is to make the game enjoyable at different levels, and imo they already did that with AC

[IronTager]

You have a good point there Hecatom. It seems like a lot is based on advertisement actually. As a matter a fact, I notice that most of the things people eat, listen to, and play are based on the fact that there was some form of mainstreamed advertisement behind it. (That or a big name)

Anyhow, I believe you may be right about that. Perhaps there is a good chance that because of the game's flashy combos, it may attract the mainstream crowd if advertised right. I mean, Guilty Gear has everything that could potentially attract a mainstream crowd. A cool image, an interestingish story (Depends who you ask), and an amazing soundtrack. (God help us all if they give the characters American voice actors that suck)

One concern I have though is, even if we do attract a mainstream crowd... What about the gamers who are a bit more serious about fighting games, but figure out how complex Guilty Gear really is? They may feel intimidated or "overwhelmed" and then possibly move on to a Crapcom game. This is of course, more hypothetical. I want people to remain on Guilty for being Guilty.

By the way, 1 more thing. People are saying that dumbing down Guilty Gear is basically making it Blazblue... I'm not sure if I agree with that so much just cause there's a lot missing from Blazblue that Guilty Gear had in the first place and Blazblue is literally, land a hit, get a combo and much less about setting up in comparison to Guilty Gear.

@BBQ Sauce

I'm not sure about that. I enjoy MvC2 and all, but I wouldn't call it that advance. It's basically, choose top tier, destroy your victim in a 4 hit combo, move on to the next victim and rinse repeat. If I'm not mistaken too, MvC2 is actually frowned at in Japan. At least, from what I've heard. Don't quote me on that.

[Frank The Tank]

@BBQ Sauce

I'm not sure about that. I enjoy MvC2 and all, but I wouldn't call it that advance. It's basically, choose top tier, destroy your victim in a 4 hit combo, move on to the next victim and rinse repeat. If I'm not mistaken too, MvC2 is actually frowned at in Japan. At least, from what I've heard. Don't quote me on that.

Japan doesn't frown upon it...they suck at it.

Doing anything at all in high level MVC2 is incredibly difficult. It's nonstop movement/blocking/mixup/zoning/runaway, and you have to pay attention to assists as well as the opponent's main character. All of the combos in that game that aren't done by Cable are incredibly difficult to master, and I'd rather try to block Eddie and Millia at the same time than try to block Magneto. That shit is harder than GG will ever be, yet it's remained popular in America without any advertisements at all, because the community won't let it die like we seem to be doing with GGAC.

[IronTager]

Well, they don't seem to happy about it. I've heard several times that they'd be displeased very much if it were ever in a big Japanese tournament.

But anyhow, on a top level, I still think Guilt Gear is more in depth. You're setting up more in Guilty and then you have to look at the factors involved within the game rather than just getting every last hit in. It's almost pointless at times to get every last hit in during Guilty Gear because of the guts and such. Though, I'm not sure I'd count that as depth, rather than clumsy development by allowing some characters to float cancel in the air (Storm, Magneto, etc...) in order to not only mixup, but continue combos that just might as well kill you instantly. From a combo perspective, MvC2 is probably harder. Not to mention that the blocking options in MvC2 are a bit more limited. In Guilty Gear, you're given multiple options to block, therefore, it's no contest that you could survive longer in the game. Plus, it'd be a hassle to keep blocking the Woshige trick (Hair car, False Roman, 6K) while Eddie does God knows what. Anyhow, that's just me personally. I think the reason Japan despises the game is not because of it's complexity but due to it's balance.

[Dr.Faust]

I don't like posting on this type of stuff as I don't know as much about fighting games as a whole and a bussness, but do you think it would just be better if GG started doing like Mealty Blood and only release in japan. I mean that way arc system can still sell to its biggest fans and keep the game for the most part the same. I think the japnese like complex games. They play KOF,GG,BB, and MB more then any other counrty in the world(and they seem to not like SF nearly as much as the prevously menchned). And the only people who play GG are normely people in the FGC. I mean we don't have a problem playing MB on a pc or japPS2 so why would we not do the same with GG. Mind you I know that there made by diffrent componeies but still, but like I said I'm new to the compeative FGC and don't know much and probely don't even know what I'm talking about but these are just my thoughts. I just don't want to see my fav game and the game that got me it to compeative games be simplfied to the extent of SSF4 just for sales.

[Spirit Juice]

Japan doesn't frown upon it...they suck at it.

Doing anything at all in high level MVC2 is incredibly difficult. It's nonstop movement/blocking/mixup/zoning/runaway, and you have to pay attention to assists as well as the opponent's main character. All of the combos in that game that aren't done by Cable are incredibly difficult to master, and I'd rather try to block Eddie and Millia at the same time than try to block Magneto. That shit is harder than GG will ever be, yet it's remained popular in America without any advertisements at all, because the community won't let it die like we seem to be doing with GGAC.

It's because the GG community isn't filled with angry black people.

[4r5]

Money matches are against the law in Japan. They can never be good at Marvel.

[qwerty]

marvel harder than guilty gear? perhaps in terms of execution (but even that's debatable).

marvel mixups are hard to block because they're A) really damn fast and B) fucking random. it may be easier to block in guilty, but it's also harder to hit people.

[STenSatsu]

I really hope they won't get rid of FRCs. They add too much variety to movement, mixups, and combos to give up imo. Just make them all like 3-5 frames if they want to make execution easier and leave them.

[Wirya]

It's because the GG community isn't filled with angry black people.

Money matches are against the law in Japan. They can never be good at Marvel.

it may be easier to block in guilty, but it's also harder to hit people.

Sig worthy stuff. WTF?? :thumbu: