Kantan Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 @cirno: only fought one guy, but guard broke him twice~ If you absolutely NEED a guard break, I find that j.Hammer>RC>5A x n (it keeps them blocking and makes sure you don't get poked out of the next hammer)>HAMMER>combo. At the very least, you're spending 50 heat and two hammer charges (probably one more before then to get them down to 3 primers) to waste their burst~ It's also pretty easy to block the now impending burst. @Urichinan: 2C>214A>22C does work, but I've actually been having more success with 214C. The timing is tight, but TIGHTER, I feel, on 214A. If you can get 214A to land successfully, then they will for sure be at the right height to do 22C>etc I think. With 214C, you still have to time it late enough that they end up at the height they would have for 214A, basically. The 22C just still feels awkward to me (I've always hated 22x motions. Haida loops were the death of me). It needs to be pretty damn late. It really is 6C>wait>22C. The really hard part is the super jump after that, especially because I still pause and go "OH, HEY! I GOT THE 22C TO HIT!" It is entirely possible to whiff the 22C, but from my experiences whiffing it so far it's not too punishable. It's usually whiffed by having the opponent too high after the 6C, which means they're also too high to punish you before you recover from the 22C. Carl just feels especially easy to whiff this on. Another thing of note for people that haven't played her yet: DON'T MASH OUT THE POGO! If you get to the end of an air combo and just start mashing 236AAAAAAAAA or 236ABBBBBBBBBB or whatever, you will find that the third hit will miss a LOT more often than you'd like, especially against litchi and hazama (for whatever reason... funny hitboxes?). It sounds silly (but it's Platinum, so it's supposed to), but you need to get a feel for the rhythm of the pogo! What really happens is, she actually does bounce off of them a little each time she hits them with this (for a total of three times). If you mash it out, the second and third hits will come out while she's at the top of the bounce from the first or second hit. If this is the case, the third will come out too high and you'll both just kinda fall to the ground. This loses you damage, heat, and any semblance of oki that the pogo gives you (which is actually pretty decent, especially in the corner). I find the B version the easiest to whiff, which sucks because it's also my favorite (puts you basically right on top of them, right in 2A range). It should be 236A>B>B, not 236ABBBBBBB It's easier than I make it sound... just something to keep in mind...
Cirno Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Ooh, not being able to mash 236A is interesting. Also, spending 50% heat to crush 4 primers seems like a good enough deal. Situational, of course, but everything with Platinum seems to be. We'll have more time to mess around in training mode when she shows up. A month and a half doesn't seem like too long until I actually start counting down... （ ´_ゝ`）
Urichinan Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 What about 2C straight into 22C? I've seen multiple players do it. Have you tried out that yet?
TD Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 is her command grab looking legit? lt looks awfully slow and obvious.
Kantan Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Whoa... I've been away from the board too long apparently and missed a lot of info! Is the DLC official for the end of March or so? Is it free and do you NEED to already have makoto and valk to be able to download the patch? Is it even a patch?.. A trip to the news and info thread didn't result in much... 3DS wat... I'll try 2C into 22C today. Do you remember that being situational at all? Like, when you saw that happen, was it off a FC 6C or a counter hit 2C? I would imagine that if it's not situational, the timing on it's even harder and possibly character specific. Her command throw... It's a mixed bag. It is slow and I think it's pretty easy to read, but I've gotten it to work more times than I can count. Against scrubs and average players, it's awesome. 1500 damage and an item refill for free, that's pretty sweet. Against a skilled opponent who can read and dodge it, you're going to eat shit on the whiff. If you can go without using it until the last round and train the opponent to block and expect the same string, throwing this in at random at the end can be useful. Hell, I've hit with it off of 2A>2A>command throw once I've gotten my opponent to start expecting 2B or a jump attempt. It's especially nice after 5C. A decent opponent is going to be scared and trying to guess if you're going to jump or throw out a 3C. They might even forget you have a command throw by the last round if you've not using it. I'm pretty sure it runs to wherever they were when you INPUTTED THE MOVE, so if they jump and airdash towards you, you'll keep running under them to wherever they jumped from, but let me try to test that today and find out. Don't use it from too far away, like 3C range is pretty dangerous. If you thought it was slow and easily readable before, no opponent is going to watch the startup and then sit there and watch her runs towards them and throw. All in all, AWESOME tool to have, I love it, just don't overuse it.
Cirno Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Not necessarily DLC, but the PSP/3DS versions are set for March 31st. We're assuming that, because of this, the DLC will be released close to this time. We might get more information from that UK event on March 5th, or that Texas anime con on the 18-20th. I love the command grab so much; I wish I would see it used more often in videos, but when I do see it, it usually connects. 5C > Swallow Moon > Dramatic Sammy is something I want to try asap. ( ´∀`)
LunaKage Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Not necessarily DLC, but the PSP/3DS versions are set for March 31st. We're assuming that, because of this, the DLC will be released close to this time. We might get more information from that UK event on March 5th, or that Texas anime con on the 18-20th. I love the command grab so much; I wish I would see it used more often in videos, but when I do see it, it usually connects. 5C > Swallow Moon > Dramatic Sammy is something I want to try asap. ( ´∀`) Now that you mention it, at a big event like the March 5th one would be the perfect time to announce the future for Console BBCS2. Here's to hoping you're right.
Urichinan Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Whoa... I've been away from the board too long apparently and missed a lot of info! Is the DLC official for the end of March or so? Is it free and do you NEED to already have makoto and valk to be able to download the patch? Is it even a patch?.. A trip to the news and info thread didn't result in much... 3DS wat... I'll try 2C into 22C today. Do you remember that being situational at all? Like, when you saw that happen, was it off a FC 6C or a counter hit 2C? I would imagine that if it's not situational, the timing on it's even harder and possibly character specific. Her command throw... It's a mixed bag. It is slow and I think it's pretty easy to read, but I've gotten it to work more times than I can count. Against scrubs and average players, it's awesome. 1500 damage and an item refill for free, that's pretty sweet. Against a skilled opponent who can read and dodge it, you're going to eat shit on the whiff. If you can go without using it until the last round and train the opponent to block and expect the same string, throwing this in at random at the end can be useful. Hell, I've hit with it off of 2A>2A>command throw once I've gotten my opponent to start expecting 2B or a jump attempt. It's especially nice after 5C. A decent opponent is going to be scared and trying to guess if you're going to jump or throw out a 3C. They might even forget you have a command throw by the last round if you've not using it. I'm pretty sure it runs to wherever they were when you INPUTTED THE MOVE, so if they jump and airdash towards you, you'll keep running under them to wherever they jumped from, but let me try to test that today and find out. Don't use it from too far away, like 3C range is pretty dangerous. If you thought it was slow and easily readable before, no opponent is going to watch the startup and then sit there and watch her runs towards them and throw. All in all, AWESOME tool to have, I love it, just don't overuse it. 5C > 236B > Dash > 5C > 2C > 214C > 6C > 22C > 5D(Pan) > Dash > 2C > 22C > 5C > sj.B > j.C > dj.B > j.C > j.D(Pan) > j.C > j.236XXX was one way it was used. 3C > 22C > Rapid > Dash > 2C > 22C > 5C > 236B was another one I saw.
Urichinan Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Come on guys! This place is dead, let's get some conversations going. Do you think it would be a good idea for me to post all the matchup threads in the matchup section?
Lusterleon Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 yes, please do! I need to know if her match up against is in her favor
Urichinan Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 yes, please do! I need to know if her match up against is in her favor Well that kind of stuff is stil undetermined and won't be set in stone until some solid testing can be done. The matchup threads are used for general strategy against a specific character.
Cirno Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I'd definitely say to wait for the matchup threads in the matchup section until her release. They wouldn't get any use, and would just sit there until her release regardless. Sparking up a convo isn't a bad idea, though. How about this; what item do you think you'll find yourself using most? Yeah, sure, 'i'm going to use all of them' blah blah POMF. Any good Platinum player will use all of her items to their fullest, but I'm asking which one do you think you'll enjoy most, and end up using most subsequently. Oh, and for bonus points, how about which one you'll use in Miracle Jeanne the most as well. Personally I'm probably going to use the hammer most. Those guard crushes, combos, etc are so delicious. In Miracle Jeanne, I might end up using LARGE MISSILES the most, but I'm not too sure. Really gotta get a feel for the sugoi magic myself. To clarify; when I say "the most", I mean 'holding them longer than others if the situation allowed for it'. So, not like 'I'M GOING TO HOLD THIS HAMMER 100% OF THE TIME EVEN THOUGH MY NEXT ITEM IS A CAT, I HAVE 50% HEAT, AND I'M FIGHTING TAGER'. Edited February 24, 2011 by Cirno
Urichinan Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 I think I'll probably find myself using the pan the most. The damage from the Hammer is nice, but I think I'll be able to find a lot of better combo uses for the Pan in different situations that the Hammer might not work. And as for Miracle Jeanne, that is going to be my main focus with her. I want to save up my Heat as much as I can and then whoop out Miracle Jeanne and get to business. That's what I do with Tsubaki the most. Giant Fan, Giant Missiles and Lion Head I think will be the most useful of the Install items, so I'll probably try to work with those a lot.
Cirno Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 The Pan is another one of my favorites. The comboability is nice, but I really love the near instant overheads you can get out of it. Also floating in the air when spamming it is just hilarious (it'll have some use against FRKZ Bang, surely). ┐(￣ー￣)┌
Urichinan Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 I can't wait to try out TK Swallow Moon > j.B/C > j.D(Pan) stuff, it'll confuse the crap out of people if you mix that in with TK Swallow Moon > j.B/C > 2A since 2A hits low. ~('.'~)
Lusterleon Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 The hammer is my favorite guard Crushing move, Including that it's also safe makes me smile :D. Second will be the Pan just for those overheads. But for Miracle Jeanne, I'll be using the hammer cause that upgrade is god like
dummyacct7 Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Probably the bat, 'cause it's like Hazama once he gets 50 meter. All of a sudden, the opponent needs to be more careful with their pressure. ホームランです！
Kantan Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 @Urichinan: so I tried 2C>22C's and, as I thought, they're even harder to do. I'm wondering if those situations you mentioned are special. The first involves the frying pan and the other is off a 22C rapid. The timing on 22C's on an airborne opponent is difficult. You gotta make it hit them AFTER she bounces off the ground on her pogo. But if you use it too early, she will either whiff or hit them too high, meaning they'll tech before you get the chance to do any sort of followup. I'm yet to get it down consistently, but I'm gonna pretend that's because I haven't gotten much opportunity to practice lately >_< Want my opinion on items? :D Bat: The bat can shut down the opponent's offense, but it also hurts yours. Every other item helps your offense in big ways, but the bat just really doesn't. Usually when I get the bat, I either throw it away or use all three charges up really quickly. It's kinda fun to rush towards the opponent then just use it to cancel out whatever poke they use against you. If I don't use it quickly, it really just sits there unless I'm getting rushed down by the opponent nonstop (hello, ragna!), which limits a lot of my offense :P bombs: I feel not enough people mention these. Up close, they're next to useless, but they have their uses! If you can get used to aiming them (which is easy), you'd be surprised how often you can catch people with these and grab initiative. Also, since they hit twice (once on impact, and once on explosion), even if the opponent blocks 'em you get plenty of time to close the distance favorably. My favorite use for them, though, is a really preemptive anti-air. The angle you shoot them at (especially 214D) works great for most jump-ins if you use it early. Cat: almost instant over-head from nearly half a screen away? HELL YES! Your opponent will fear the cat, and you should give them every reason to. The can't isn't amazing damage, especially since you can't really use it in combos (there's almost always a better option than ending with the cat). However, the damage from 3 quick, surprise hits of the cat can easily decide a round. Don't get predictable with it, that's the key. Missiles: Man these are fun. Use them all individually to tag an opponent full screen by surprise, or use all three for cover to close any distance and often give yourself the initiative. Let them jump and chickenblock so you get the option of crossunder or faking crossunder. If they aren't barrier blocking in the air, hit them with 6A or 5C (if they'll hit) for basically a free combo. Hit them with a 236B before the second missile hits, even if they block it you at least take off a guard primer and will be made safe by that missile. frying pan: If you have the pan and hit them, they are going in the corner. The frying pan ups damage and helps you move your opponent. When I know that the opponent is just a bit too far for 236B to get them to the corner for combo, 5B>5C>DOKKAN!>dash-in>5B>5C>236B often does the job. We also all know how AMAZING the jD overhead is. tk swallow moon>jB>2AA>jD is RIDICULOUSLY hard to block. There are probably better things to do, but this has worked for me and makes sure barrier blocking doesn't move them too far away from me. Hammer: My baby. My sweetheart. Every item pull I do is basically just me getting that item out of the way and praying that a hammer will come next. One of the proudest moments of my blazblue life has been beating a noel using 236B>RC>236B>RC>5AA>HAMMER!!!>guard break>combo. It's just not something you really expect. Hell, I didn't even think It would work. 100% tension, no bursts left, and a scared-shitless, cornered opponent being required on top of the hammer and initiative makes it pretty damn situational, but GODDAMN IT WAS AWESOME. Factor in that the hammer still had 2 more charges left (which I then used for the combo) and you got yourself an AMAZING item. As for Miracle Jeanne: Hammer: It's useful, but I don't really know if it's worth the tension. It's pretty nifty against lambda, she loses the ability to use 214D anytime other than on your wakeup. There are probably other times it's useful too. I haven't tried it out in a hammer loop yet to see how much better the damage is, I'll get on that. Missile: FULL SCREEN LULZ. They combo into each other. Hazama can't even troll as well as these let you. Really though, while these have their uses, I think I'd rather have regular missile 214D to let me close the gap between me and a troublesome opponent. Kitty: This is another big LOL moment. I think someone already mentioned how fun these are against tager. Get them at 3C distance and let the 3C/jLION mixup commence, and now the damage is much scarier for your opponent. bombs: I think using heat on upgraded bombs is pretty much a waste. They're bigger and they do more damage, but most of the time I just use bombs to have a little fun and maybe get some extra damage off my opponent until I can pull the next item. Bat: Extra damage and reach on your one-button DP? That's pretty awesome, but is it really worth it? I dunno, I'm biased. I've seen plenty of vids where the pros use the upgraded bat, or at least upgrade it and just sit on it, but I'd rather have the mixup and damage that the other items afford me... fan: This adds a good chunk of extra damage to the normal frying pan combos, but that's not even where it really shines. The fan adds a really good chunk of extra range to your pan attacks. This is especially awesome with jD. jD with the pan requires you to be right on top of your opponent, especially if you want to combo afterward. In other words, if you do a full blockstring, then jump cancel the 5C for jDOKKAN, you're probably going to whiff if they barrier'd at all. jFan lets you confirm them blocking a little bit later and still successfully hit them with the instant overhead. I am the master of tl;dr. I hope you guys at least find the wall of text useful ;___;
Urichinan Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 @Urichinan: so I tried 2C>22C's and, as I thought, they're even harder to do. I'm wondering if those situations you mentioned are special. The first involves the frying pan and the other is off a 22C rapid. The timing on 22C's on an airborne opponent is difficult. You gotta make it hit them AFTER she bounces off the ground on her pogo. But if you use it too early, she will either whiff or hit them too high, meaning they'll tech before you get the chance to do any sort of followup. I'm yet to get it down consistently, but I'm gonna pretend that's because I haven't gotten much opportunity to practice lately >_< Want my opinion on items? :D Bat: The bat can shut down the opponent's offense, but it also hurts yours. Every other item helps your offense in big ways, but the bat just really doesn't. Usually when I get the bat, I either throw it away or use all three charges up really quickly. It's kinda fun to rush towards the opponent then just use it to cancel out whatever poke they use against you. If I don't use it quickly, it really just sits there unless I'm getting rushed down by the opponent nonstop (hello, ragna!), which limits a lot of my offense :P bombs: I feel not enough people mention these. Up close, they're next to useless, but they have their uses! If you can get used to aiming them (which is easy), you'd be surprised how often you can catch people with these and grab initiative. Also, since they hit twice (once on impact, and once on explosion), even if the opponent blocks 'em you get plenty of time to close the distance favorably. My favorite use for them, though, is a really preemptive anti-air. The angle you shoot them at (especially 214D) works great for most jump-ins if you use it early. Cat: almost instant over-head from nearly half a screen away? HELL YES! Your opponent will fear the cat, and you should give them every reason to. The can't isn't amazing damage, especially since you can't really use it in combos (there's almost always a better option than ending with the cat). However, the damage from 3 quick, surprise hits of the cat can easily decide a round. Don't get predictable with it, that's the key. Missiles: Man these are fun. Use them all individually to tag an opponent full screen by surprise, or use all three for cover to close any distance and often give yourself the initiative. Let them jump and chickenblock so you get the option of crossunder or faking crossunder. If they aren't barrier blocking in the air, hit them with 6A or 5C (if they'll hit) for basically a free combo. Hit them with a 236B before the second missile hits, even if they block it you at least take off a guard primer and will be made safe by that missile. frying pan: If you have the pan and hit them, they are going in the corner. The frying pan ups damage and helps you move your opponent. When I know that the opponent is just a bit too far for 236B to get them to the corner for combo, 5B>5C>DOKKAN!>dash-in>5B>5C>236B often does the job. We also all know how AMAZING the jD overhead is. tk swallow moon>jB>2AA>jD is RIDICULOUSLY hard to block. There are probably better things to do, but this has worked for me and makes sure barrier blocking doesn't move them too far away from me. Hammer: My baby. My sweetheart. Every item pull I do is basically just me getting that item out of the way and praying that a hammer will come next. One of the proudest moments of my blazblue life has been beating a noel using 236B>RC>236B>RC>5AA>HAMMER!!!>guard break>combo. It's just not something you really expect. Hell, I didn't even think It would work. 100% tension, no bursts left, and a scared-shitless, cornered opponent being required on top of the hammer and initiative makes it pretty damn situational, but GODDAMN IT WAS AWESOME. Factor in that the hammer still had 2 more charges left (which I then used for the combo) and you got yourself an AMAZING item. As for Miracle Jeanne: Hammer: It's useful, but I don't really know if it's worth the tension. It's pretty nifty against lambda, she loses the ability to use 214D anytime other than on your wakeup. There are probably other times it's useful too. I haven't tried it out in a hammer loop yet to see how much better the damage is, I'll get on that. Missile: FULL SCREEN LULZ. They combo into each other. Hazama can't even troll as well as these let you. Really though, while these have their uses, I think I'd rather have regular missile 214D to let me close the gap between me and a troublesome opponent. Kitty: This is another big LOL moment. I think someone already mentioned how fun these are against tager. Get them at 3C distance and let the 3C/jLION mixup commence, and now the damage is much scarier for your opponent. bombs: I think using heat on upgraded bombs is pretty much a waste. They're bigger and they do more damage, but most of the time I just use bombs to have a little fun and maybe get some extra damage off my opponent until I can pull the next item. Bat: Extra damage and reach on your one-button DP? That's pretty awesome, but is it really worth it? I dunno, I'm biased. I've seen plenty of vids where the pros use the upgraded bat, or at least upgrade it and just sit on it, but I'd rather have the mixup and damage that the other items afford me... fan: This adds a good chunk of extra damage to the normal frying pan combos, but that's not even where it really shines. The fan adds a really good chunk of extra range to your pan attacks. This is especially awesome with jD. jD with the pan requires you to be right on top of your opponent, especially if you want to combo afterward. In other words, if you do a full blockstring, then jump cancel the 5C for jDOKKAN, you're probably going to whiff if they barrier'd at all. jFan lets you confirm them blocking a little bit later and still successfully hit them with the instant overhead. I am the master of tl;dr. I hope you guys at least find the wall of text useful ;___; Interesting stuff here, I didn't know 2A was jump cancelable... Heh, would you mind posting what moves hit high, mid, low and what moves are jump cancelable on hit and block for me? I'd like to add them to the guide to make sure everything is right. Speaking of the guide, guys is there anything in there that I got incorrect or just some stuff that might need tweaking?
Cirno Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Gonna quote your post so it doesn't fall to Last Page Post Syndrome: Edit: whoops, urinichan was a bit faster than me. I found the text quite useful, actually! It's always good to get your input, Kantan. The extra range on the fan definitely seems nice, and I've always been interested in the Lion as well (5 uses? yes please). I'm also pretty interested in the upgraded hammer. Slide head is pretty great, and if you could check the damage boost on the loop, that would be rad. Also, nice hammer story. Those type of situations are always fantastic. Edited February 25, 2011 by Cirno
Urichinan Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 You know what you should do? If you ever get into the situation where you have the Missiles and the Hammer is next and you also have 50 Heat, use 214D and while they hover use Miracle Jeanne and as the fly across the screen use the Install Hammer for the slide head. Ha ha!
Kantan Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I'm pretty sure 2A ISN'T actually jump cancellable, but it's so fucking fast to come out and recover that it might as well be. True, there is a gap there since it's not, but your opponent should be trained to continue blocking after 2A by the time you use that anyway :P Plat is a mixup champ, here goes: 2A: low 5A: mid 6A: mid 2B: low 5B: mid 6B: high 2C: mid 5C: mid 6C: mid (but leads to highs, like ragna 6D) 3C: low j.A: high (FUCK YEAH) j.B: high j.C: high j.2C: high 236A: mid (sad day) 236B: mid 22C doesn't come out unless they're already in hit-stun 236C isn't an attack 214BUBBLES: mid 41236D: throw 632146C: mid items: missiles and bombs are always mid 5D is mid for hammer, pan, bat and kitty jD is high for pan, kitty, and first hit of hammer (I'm pretty sure the second hit is mid) I'm not sure about jD with the bat, but I don't think it can come out low enough to hit them when they're crouching, to be honest. It floats her up a bit on use in the air and she swings kinda upwards. I think these are all the same as the upgraded version. The only one I'm unsure about is the second hit of jD megaton hammer. It MIGHT be low, but I really don't play around too much with the upgraded items, only against the computer which is too stupid to block anyway... Hope I'm not forgetting anything... As for jump cancellable moves... I think it's only 5A, 6A, and 5C. 6C IS a jump, so think what you will of that move (it also cancels pretty damn quickly into jC... too quickly, you gotta learn the timing on it). 6C is another fun move. Throw out once in a blue moon and watch their health disappear on that fatal counter. I often forget it even exists, but not nearly as often as my opponents do, apparently. Use it after a 5C. They'll expect either 3C or a jump cancel. When they don't see either of those happen immediately, they'll try to react by poking, but often just in time to get FC'd by your move. Again, while this isn't DANGEROUS (you can continue attacking [and from the air!] on block) it loses a lot of its effect if you use it too much. Also, that situation about the hammer and missiles: In theory that's a pretty good idea, however 9 times out of 10, the opponent jumps the second they see 214D missiles, meaning the SLIDE-HAMMER wouldn't do anything. At least you get a pretty safe Miracle Jeanne, though :D I'll probably look over the guide sometime tonight, Urichinan. If I feel anything needs correcting or whatever, I'll send you a PM or post here just so that thread stays nice and tidy (I don't like the guide threads getting cluttered and ugly with non-guide things). Furthermore, your avatar is so painfully ironic in the Plat section. Just sayin'.
Recommended Posts