[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[dioxideUniversa]

it would seem really odd to me to remove the landing recovery on j.C since they just put it BACK on platinum's j.C.

that is because hakumen is hakumen and platinum is platinum. they have nothing to do with each other. hakumen's j.2c probably still has landing recovery

But maybe they did. a 4f landing recovery is pretty hard to see to me unless you get hit out of it. Does this actually mean anything? I don't ever feel like the landing recovery on Jin or Mu's j.Cs has any real effect on gameplay. the hitboxes are too large for it to matter, but then I play short range characters.

having to stand still for 4f definitely has an impact on your options in a neutral scenario (especially for a character like hakumen who has to commit to hops--modestly longer in frames compared to dashing--to move on the ground,) such as when you're zoning with j.C. though it's a small window, it is possible for it to leave you open or create a situation where your only options are defensive ones, which obviously skews the whole "neutral" thing.

the landing for that j.C in that video seems pretty strange to me; i personally do not feel it's too hard to spot, but I've spent a lot of time scrutinizing hakumen's landing frames for some combo purposes

Edited August 12, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[mAc Chaos]

I've gotten hit out of landing recovery before. Plenty of times actually.

[psycofang2]

I've gotten hit out of landing recovery before. Plenty of times actually.

jin, mu, haku and a decent makoto can tag you out of recovery pretty well.

[Spark]

They probably got rid of it to make comboing off j.C wall stick with 5C easier since the wall stick time is pretty short. Also j.2C as far as I know has never had landing recovery.

[mAc Chaos]

What would you guys say are the key areas for evaluating a player? Yomi, abare, execution, hit confirm, etc.? Would hit confirm fall under abare.

[Errol]

I've gotten hit out of landing recovery before. Plenty of times actually.

when do you get hit out of it? the other character would have to be coming from a completely different angle.

Like if you put it out in case they jumped but they didn't and are just running at you.

Shrug.

Also I put evaluation of a player at like 80% neutral. and then maybe abare. The rest should be good enough that it practically shouldn't distinguish any players from each other. First thought anyway.

*shrug*

[mAc Chaos]

> Like if you put it out in case they jumped but they didn't and are just running at you.

Yeah that happens all the time. Or I IAD j.C at them, and they run in under and hit me instead.

As for the player thing, I was just trying to think of categories to differentiate various players. Like I would say my best is yomi, and execution would be bad probably.

[toanenadiz]

I've hit Haku out of jC's landing recovery with 2B and 3C a bunch of times.

[Errol]

I've hit Haku out of jC's landing recovery with 2B and 3C a bunch of times.

couldn't you directly anti-air him with those?

[toanenadiz]

Grounded 2B typically leads to more damage than AA 2B.

[mAc Chaos]

2A＞2B＞蓮華＞鬼蹴＞6C＞2Cjc＞JCodc＞JC＞椿祈＞火蛍dc＞JC＞着地立ちC＞残鉄＞疾 風[6600] もうすこし改良したら7000こえそうです

someone translate

[Errol]

2A＞2B＞蓮華＞鬼蹴＞6C＞2Cjc＞JCodc＞JC＞椿祈＞火蛍dc＞JC＞着地立ちC＞残鉄＞疾 風[6600] もうすこし改良したら7000こえそうです

someone translate

2A> 7k

die hakumen.

[psycofang2]

2A> 7k

die hakumen.

why are you here?

also he rounded up, technical damage is 6600 though im more than positive its a corner combo.

basically its the JC>OD>JC loop combo going in from 2A in the corner.

[psycofang2]

2A＞2B＞蓮華＞鬼蹴＞6C＞2Cjc＞JCodc＞JC＞椿祈＞火蛍dc＞JC＞着地立ちC＞残鉄＞疾 風[6600] もうすこし改良したら7000こえそうです

someone translate

2A>2B>Renka>Kishuu>6C>2C>super jump ccancel>JC>OD cancel>JC>hotaru>air dash>JC>land>5C>zantetsu/shippu.

same ol s***.

[Errol]

why are you here?

also he rounded up, technical damage is 6600 though im more than positive its a corner combo.

basically its the JC>OD>JC loop combo going in from 2A in the corner.

because he wanted a translation, and the best translation for that is 2a> 7k.

he got it up to 6982 tweaking something or other. 7.2k without the 2b.

[mAc Chaos]

It's not like it's new that Haku gets big damage in the corner, especially when he uses all his stars and a burst.

[psycofang2]

because he wanted a translation, and the best translation for that is 2a> 7k.

he got it up to 6982 tweaking something or other. 7.2k without the 2b.

he wanted the combo.

die hakumen wasnt really...needed but anyway.

his last little tidbit was a bit more improvement towards the combo to boost it past 7k. but you have to be near the corner which makes it harder to do this damage.

im going to guess the needed star requirement for this combo to be done easily is 4. youll already use 3 before the od cancel but still gain stars as you hit them. youll use and additional 5 after the cancel.

unless OD is faster than what im remembering.

[Errol]

die hakumen wasnt really...needed but anyway.

Who are you and what have you done with psycofang.

it's a little surprising still because of the fast tech time on jabs in CP. jabs have good proration now, but the time limit is rough..

[mAc Chaos]

Well it does need OD. You don't need a burst to do 7k in the corner in Extend.

[psycofang2]

Who are you and what have you done with psycofang.

it's a little surprising still because of the fast tech time on jabs in CP. jabs have good proration now, but the time limit is rough..

its because of the nature of his combos, they pretty much allowed him to do high damage without a crippling effect. he can do roughly the same damage in CSe if you replicate a few of CPs combos with RCs to get the general idea of where the damage is coming from. JC>zantetsu (1) now has a small ground slam effect allowing kishuu 6C where as in other iterations this wasnt naturally possible. also the combo (The JC OD loop) is apparently very very strict.

Well it does need OD. You don't need a burst to do 7k in the corner in Extend.

its because of how star dependant hes become. so they traded alot of meterless,low to moderate constant damage for more high cost high burst damage combos.

also i noticed people havent been using his drive too much lately, especially D>enma.

[dioxideUniversa]

last video i watched i saw nothing but CT a lot of 2D > shippu combos with not a lot inbetween

[mAc Chaos]

How do you guys feel about his counters in CP compared to EX and previous games. CP's has high damage but a host of nerfs, so which is better.

[Koopa_Klawz]

I just wish they could've atleast left 6D as a f1 counter. Imo, it's more useless than CS2 j.D.

[BlackYakuzu94]

6D was kind of retarded tho, so I don't blame them for nerfing that. 5D however, why?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Is 2D still a F1? I've always thought F1 counters on Hakumen was silly.