SansProtocol Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I don't get what you mean. Why wouldn't it be great with 1f startup? Or do you mean, explain how it wouldn't be TOO great. I was going to ask you why you think 6D would be nice to have back at frame 1 and then use those reasons to make my point that it would be too good even without the follow-up. I know you're an Ace Attorney fan, too. :3 I thought that move was too good in Extend, to be honest. Enma follow-up to drives should scale harder. You get too much damage off of it, lol. That too, that would be a good thing to change. i have a great idea during OD 6D catches from frame 1 Activation at neutral with less than 4 stars to see what an opponent is doing > 6D would be hilarious against jump-ins.
mAc Chaos Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I was going to ask you why you think 6D would be nice to have back at frame 1 and then use those reasons to make my point that it would be too good even without the follow-up. I know you're an Ace Attorney fan, too. :3 I thought that move was too good in Extend, to be honest. That's why I asked the follow up. ;o Anyway, all you would have to do is remove the followup and make the proration high enough that it doesn't do huge damage. 2k or so would not be bad. All that matters is that 1f. Well, I guess it won't really matter in his current iteration.
Moblin Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I seem to recall quite a few Hakumen players complaining about how little he got off his counters in previous versions. Well they fixed that. But now it's way too much and polarizing. I really like the added depth to Hakumen's drive with the enma followup tbh - a good compromise would let every counter be comboable again but remove the ridiculous damage to something more reasonable. His Drive, I thought, was to be able to turn the momentum of the match in his favor by reading his opponent's offense. Not to steal the entire match away completely. As epic as that is.
mAc Chaos Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 The damage was to make the risk reward worth it. Now the move itself is just unuseable in 6D's case. It's like complaining that your pistol doesn't do enough damage in a man to man firefight, so they take the pistol away and give you a cannon.
Moblin Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Yeah, 6d fulfills a niche that 5d is better at in every single way. The changes to 6d's forward momentum in the Patch is an attempt at making it fill a unique role that other drives can't fill, to eliminate the redundancy of its existence. Definitely agree with your metaphor that now the risk-reward is completely topsy turvy from the previous iterations. I guess the middle ground is somewhere between those two extremes.
mAc Chaos Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 The question is, what role does it have from that forward momentum. Plus you could just use 5D in the same situation...
Moblin Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I'm gonna assume the momentum will allow it to catch moves that otherwise wouldn't even hit Hakumen. Might be useful for epic Yomi in matchups that have a lot of footsies or zoning. Or we could just wait for more info to come out and have it answered for us, but then what are forum discussions for?
Koopa_Klawz Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 So after watching the JAEPO stream, it shows that j.D ~ Agito causes FC.
Koopa_Klawz Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Anything else worth noting? I've noticed his meter gain slowing down when he was in the air and that's all I've seen worth noting. He didn't try to do 6D or air throw.
Moblin Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I watched a bit of it last night. The meter gain nerf looks really concerning. It almost stops when you're in the air. I'm not positive, but it seems like on the ground, meter gain was sped up to compensate. However, it might just have been the contrast between how slow it was in the air compared to the ground that created that illusion for me. Either way, it seems like kind of a huge nerf to meter gain. It might even change how some Hakumens play if this change stays how it is: Being in the air is so restrictive with that stoppage to meter gain that a more ground-oriented neutral game would be beneficial.
mAc Chaos Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I wonder why they would be against us being in the air. It could have just been a nerf to star gain during OD, but instead it's across the board.
Errol Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I think the reason is that for a large part of being combo'd you are in the air, so it will remedy the bogus situation where you combo hakumen and he gets more heat than you.
mAc Chaos Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Hmm, wait. You would not have any star gain during neutral too right? So jumping around j.C'ing is going to hurt your meter...
Moblin Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Kinda mad about this actually. Besides maybe Valk and Koko this seems like one of the bigger nerfs for a specific character on this loketest. The method by which they might have fixed that problem could have been a lot better. Now he loses a ton of meter for attempting things like j.c zoning or simply jumping in the neutral game. Why not make it so that if he's in hitstun, his meter slows down? That would be fine and make a lot more sense than just it just stopping once his feet leave the ground. Right now, he's some kind of plant that draws magatama from the soil.
Schneider-X Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Here's the stream that was shown yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOeMJ1pE-tM At 19:45 you can see Hakumen do a TK Hotaru combo and he gains back roughly 1 star back versus the 1.5ish stars that he gains currently. They might've increased his heat gain from attacks to compensate for the slower speed during his combos since its not as drastic as I thought.
Sophisticat Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 Yep, meter gain change as expected. It's going to affect his game outside of combos as I feared. I already made the observation that it could be a pretty big change to his playstyle, and this seems to confirm that view. Let's see if there are ways around it with some testing...
Skeletal Minion Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) I'm surprised no Mugen changes seem to have been made since it's so garbage in CP. I know they want to balance Mugen + OD situations, but how much would that even matter? Just force OD to end when Mugen does, or even simpler just make post-Mugen's meter gain penalty affect OD. I'd like to see 6D changed to 1F, fully invul on catch, grants a magatama on successful activation, Enma follow up not possible, combo not possible, blockable, does no or low damage, but forces a special "neutral tech only"/unrollable knockdown. Its usage would essentially become a backdash that has tighter timing (i.e., for avoidance or as an escape tool), but nets you a fuzzy j.B setup or other mixup and maybe a little damage. Edited February 16, 2014 by Skeletal Minion
Raziul Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Yep, meter gain change as expected. It's going to affect his game outside of combos as I feared. I already made the observation that it could be a pretty big change to his playstyle, and this seems to confirm that view. Let's see if there are ways around it with some testing... It looked like it affected his meter gain while he was being combo'd by other characters more than while he was doing his own combos. No more teching with 7-8 stars after eating one combo I guess.
Raziul Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 The CT version of Akumetsu is way cooler than this super fast CP one.
Warhound Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I'm surprised no Mugen changes seem to have been made since it's so garbage in CP. I know they want to balance Mugen + OD situations, but how much would that even matter? Just force OD to end when Mugen does, or even simpler just make post-Mugen's meter gain penalty affect OD. I'd like to see 6D changed to 1F, fully invul on catch, grants a magatama on successful activation, Enma follow up not possible, combo not possible, blockable, does no or low damage, but forces a special "neutral tech only"/unrollable knockdown. Its usage would essentially become a backdash that has tighter timing (i.e., for avoidance or as an escape tool), but nets you a fuzzy j.B setup or other mixup and maybe a little damage. Why would they make changes to something that actually, desperately needs it when they could just nerf Zanshin some more? The CT version of Akumetsu is way cooler than this super fast CP one. Agreed, if my opponent got caught in that thing I want them to have ample time to facepalm.
Kriegdrache Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 The CT version of Akumetsu is way cooler than this super fast CP one. It also felt less telegraphed, as IB > 720 was kind of easy to pull off once you got the practice in.
someonewhodied Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 So yukikazeing bursts is the greatest feeling in the world. Anyone else try to do it?
edollarports Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 ofc, game needs a buff where if you yukikaze a burst it goes into astral
Moblin Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 What do you guys think of j.D > 5B > JC Hotaru?
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