[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

So how can we stack this with OD for shenanigans.

[SixWingedAngel]

7k from ground throw.

 

The mugen is real.

 

 

So how can we stack this with OD for shenanigans.

You hit all the buttons randomly and go into overdrive so that you can get magatama faster and mugen the stuff out of the opponent

[The_undercover_beret]

So how can we stack this with OD for shenanigans.

OD Yukikaze < Mugen < Shippu.

 

3 super for an unburstable 8k combo that turns our opponents into salt marshes.

 

Otherwise, it's rather limited. In order to activate Mugen in the middle of a practical combo, we need to use either 6C or 6A, while the other character is still on the ground. Since 6A is faster in 2.0, it might be possible to do something like 5C < OD cancel < 6A, but that could be all.

[IndigoNovember]

Apparently there are a lot of Mugen changes in CP2: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24777704 / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVVE7mNNtFs

 

Like Enma being jump cancelable again.

[BlackYakuzu94]

[Hype Intensifies]

 

 

Maybe I can influence them to do something else next time.

 

 

EDIT: Of course it's in Japanese....Can someone please translate this, at least the important bits.

[Kikirin]

I transcribed the first 1:40 of the video for easier translation, which I presume summarizes the changes that are demonstrated later in it. If someone hasn't picked up the translation, then I can take a crack at it tomorrow.

 

 

はじめにこの動画はVer2.0のハクメンの夢幻について個人的にまとめてみた動画です。

雑編集、雑解説　注意

夢幻の仕様や技化、疾風の最低保証UPについておおまかにまとめてみました。

技の性能や疾風については１：３８から動画での解説あり。

* 効果時間：約６カウント（目測）

疾風の刀部分をあてるか、

雪風の反撃をあてると効果終了。

攻撃が空振り、ガードされた場合は効果継続。

暗転中モゲージが減少するので残り時間に注意が必要。

OD中はゲージの減少なし。

* 暗転前の無敵はなし。

暗転後はそこそこ長い無敵あり。

．．．無敵中は硬直で動けないけどね

*キャラコンボレートの悪化

夢幻の低火力の最大の原因。

*攻撃力UP　()

単発ダメージは高くなるが

キャラコンボレート悪化でほぼ無意味

*夢幻中、ラピッドキャンセル、カウンターアサルト、クラッシュトリガーが使用不可。

*一部の必殺技の性能が変化

火蛍と残鉄以外の技に変化あり。

詳細は後述。

*疾風の最低ダメージ保証の仕様変更

Ver2.0より追加された夢幻の救世主。

必殺技をあてる度に

疾風の最低ダメージ保証上昇するように。

詳細は後述。

--

夢幻中の必殺技の

変更点

*紅蓮

移動距離UP

ダウン中の相手に２B＞紅蓮が

繋がらなくなる（先端２Bなら繋がる）

閻魔＞最速紅蓮からの

２C拾いも不可。

*鬼蹴

移動距離UP

*閻魔

ｊｃ追加 (Ver1.1では受身不能時閻UP）

ｊｃｃ鬼蹴やｊｃｃODが可能に

*咢刀

カウンターヒット時のように相手が

跳ねるようになり追撃可能。

*蓮華

一段目空中ヒット時の浮きが高くなる

相手ダウン時、２B>蓮華で二段目を

空振り可能。

*椿祈

緊急受身不可になり追撃可能に。

シビアだけど椿祈＞紅蓮が繋がる。

この緊急受身不可は、技があたる前に

ゲージがなくなっても継続する。

---

夢幻中の疾風の

最低保証ダメージについて

*夢幻中、必殺技をあてる度に

あてた技の珠の消費量分だけ疾風の

刀部分の最低保証ダメージが上昇。

*上昇量は１珠につき５％。

（紅蓮->５％UP,蓮華->１０％UP)

*疾風の衝撃波の最低保証ダメージUPなし

また、あてても刀の保証UP効果はない。

*コンボ中、夢幻を使う前にあてた

必殺技では保証UPはない。

*同じ技を２回以上あてても保証UPあり

（椿祈ｘ３で９珠分の保証UP確認）

*どんなに技をあてても最低保証

ダメージは１００％以上にはならない。

---

あてた必殺技の珠の消費量の合計別

疾風の刀部分最低保証ダメージ一覧

（溜めなし疾風）

0珠: 1120

1珠: 1280

2珠: 1440

3珠; 1600

4珠: 1760

5珠: 1920

6珠: 2080

7珠: 2240

8珠: 2400

---

あてた必殺技の珠の消費量の合計別

疾風の刀部分最低保証ダメージ一覧

（溜めなし疾風）

9珠: 2560

10珠: 2720

11珠: 2880

12珠: 3040

13珠以上: 3200

 

ちなみに、暗転中にゲージがなくなっても

疾風の保証UPの効果は残ります。

---

夢幻のおおまかなまとめは

以上で終了です。

ここからは前述の情報うち、

必殺技の変更点と疾風について

動画での解説になります

 

[BlackYakuzu94]

Thanks man, we appreciate the help.

[Kikirin]

Translated video text:

 

 

 

Introduction
This video is about Ver2.0 Hakumen’s Mugen that I personally put together.
Rough editing, rough commentary warning.

-

Mugen’s specifications and [changes to] specials, and summary of Shippuu’s increased minimum damage.
From 1:38 onwards, there is commentary for performance of the specials and Shippuu.

Duration: approx. 6 timer ticks (visual estimation)
Mugen effect ends when  Shippuu ‘s sword portion or Yukikaze’s counterattack hits.
Mugen effect continues if the attack whiffs or is guarded.
Since the gauge also decreases during superflash,  need to be aware of remaining time.
Gauge doesn’t go down during OD.

* No invincibility before superflash.
Invincibility after superflash is fairly long.
...you are in recovery during the invincibility and can’t move though.

* Character combo rate worsened
Biggest cause of Mugen’s low firepower.

* Offensive power up.
Damage of individual hits is increased, but
This is almost meaningless since character combo rate is worsened.

* Can’t rapid cancel, counterassault, or crush trigger during Mugen.

* The performance of some specials are changed
There are changes to all specials except Hotaru and Zantetsu
Details are described later.

* Specifications for Shippuu’s guaranteed minimum damage changed
Ver2.0’s additions saved Mugen.
Shippuu’s guaranteed minimum damage is increased each time a special attack hits.
Details are described later.

---

Changes to special attacks during Mugen

* Guren
Movement distance up
On a downed opponent, 2B > Guren doesn’t connect. (Connects if tip of 2B)
Also unable to pick up with 2C after Enma > fastest possible Guren.

* Kishuu
Movement distance up

* Enma
Jump cancel added (In Ver1.1, untechable time increased)
jcc Kishuu and  jcc OD (among other things) possible.

* Agito

Opponent now bounces like on counterhit, followup possible.

* Renka
Higher float on Renka(1) mid-air hit.
Second hit of Renka can whiff when doing 2B > Renka on a downed opponent.

* Tsubaki
Cannot emergency tech, follow-up possible.
It is difficult/tight, but Tsubaki > Guren can connect.
The emergency tech effect continues even if the gauge empties before Tsubaki connects.

---

Shippuu minimum guaranteed damage during Mugen

* During Mugen, each time a special attack hits, the minimum guaranteed damage of Shippuu(sword) increases proportionally with the magatama consumption of the move.

* The increase is 5% per 1 magatama.

(Guren -> 5% increase, Renka -> 10% increase.)

* Shippuu shockwave’s minimum guaranteed damage doesn’t increase.
Also, if the [shockwave] hit, the sword’s [minimum guaranteed damage] effect doesn’t apply (?)
(Via video comment, shockwave hit also doesn't contribute to minimum damage boost.)

* During a combo, specials connected prior to using Mugen don’t count towards the minimum damage boost.

* Using the same specials multiple times also applies the minimum damage boost [for each use].
(Confirmed that Tsubaki x 3 applied the 9-tama boost.)

* Regardless of specials connected, minimum damage isn’t boosted past 100%.

---

Differences in uncharged Shippuu(sword) guaranteed minimum damage, from magatama consumption of special attacks connected

0: 1120

1: 1280

2: 1440

3; 1600

4: 1760

5: 1920

6: 2080

7: 2240

8: 2400

9: 2560

10: 2720

11: 2880

12: 3040

13+: 3200

 

 

Incidentally, if the gauge empties during the superflash, Shippuu’s minimum damage boost will still apply.

---

This ends the Mugen summary.

(From here, it's just commentary and video demonstration on the previously-mentioned info.)

 

Edit: Guh. And right when I finish and post, someone also posts a TL in the video comments. 

[mAc Chaos]

It's still better to have our own translation on hand. Can't be sure about random video comments.

[Raziul]

Interesting change to Mugen with the relation to Shippu.

 

It still looks like they're making Hakumen more about burst than ever before.

 

I remember early on in CP everyone was talking about how reliant Hakumen would be on his OD. I feel like he's even more reliant on it in CP2 now.

 

I noticed that a lot of the changes to star gain seem to really be impacting how most Hakumen players do neutral now. I see a lot more 4C and 6C and barely any high low mix ups with renka and zan. Personally I kind of liked how CP gave Hakumen more resources to spend on neutral, and you weren't at such a devastating loss if it didn't work out.

 

Most of all, I wish we didn't have to wait so long to get to try the changes out ourselves.

[BlackYakuzu94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CH8Xyr9_h0#t=2482

 

 

Grab>Kishuu>6C works. Probably could have did something if the combo didn't drop.

[mAc Chaos]

Interesting change to Mugen with the relation to Shippu.

 

It still looks like they're making Hakumen more about burst than ever before.

 

I remember early on in CP everyone was talking about how reliant Hakumen would be on his OD. I feel like he's even more reliant on it in CP2 now.

 

I noticed that a lot of the changes to star gain seem to really be impacting how most Hakumen players do neutral now. I see a lot more 4C and 6C and barely any high low mix ups with renka and zan. Personally I kind of liked how CP gave Hakumen more resources to spend on neutral, and you weren't at such a devastating loss if it didn't work out.

 

Most of all, I wish we didn't have to wait so long to get to try the changes out ourselves.

I agree completely; I feel like they basically got where they wanted Hakumen to be in CP1 all along.

So really it is pretty much what I was accepting from CP1 already.

[Raziul]

I'm ok with the more Hotaru centric air confirms.

http://youtu.be/fMq3v0-63YQ?t=14m09s

[mAc Chaos]

Spark, do you use that one defensive OS? Something like 1 > 7 + A + B + C > 1.

[Spark]

Nope

[BlackYakuzu94]

*Gasp* Poro's back in the latest Athena. Let's goooo

[mjting001]

I noticed that most Haku players let Zan Finish with the second hit. This sacrifices the damage for any subsequent hits after right? Or is it not possible to kishuu after the first hit anymore in 2.0?

[BlackYakuzu94]

I noticed that most Haku players let Zan Finish with the second hit. This sacrifices the damage for any subsequent hits after right? Or is it not possible to kishuu after the first hit anymore in 2.0?

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's possible, people just wanna save their meter.

[mjting001]

Alright.

 

So far my impression on 2.0 haku, good/okay but I dunno, feels very restrained/limited-even with Kami-sama-Poropiccho on the helm. How about you guys?

[Moblin]

Things I noticed:

 

 

Poro seems to use 6a like it's safe on block.

 

Enma seems like it's safe on block.

 

Big damage is still possible, but Hakumen's optimal playstyle is a bunch of 1k-2k combos from hitconfirms off of j.a, and weird confirms that are harder for the opponent to block.   One round Poro ended it in about 20 seconds and he never did more than 2k per combo.

 

He doesn't use any special followup after using a successful counter, although I thought a few instances 2d > Kishuu would have helped him a lot in the Nu Matchup.  Is that possible to do anymore?

 

Like some others mentioned, Hakumen's burst is even more important now and you should use it only when you're about to lose to save for OD confirms.

 

6a > 6b is a common combo route now, which I actually really like.  It's fun.

 

j.2a seems like a good jump in.

 

 

 

Seems like most of the games are just making people respect Hakumen's pressure and landing a bunch of weak hits like j.a, j.b and letting it add up and keeping the advantage until then with good reads and good reversal baits, and good meter management.

 

I feel like Hakumen is more about fundamentals than before.

[entnervt]

I wouldn't say that there's an optimal playstyle dmg.wise. It depends imo on the match up, the situation, etc.

Also imo Hakumen was always about fundamentals, but had nice bullshit as a bonus in CP. You could shit out specials without being worried too much about meter.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hmm, well one thing I liked about Hakumen were his fundamentals so I can appreciate him being based more around that. If they buff his damage and have the specials off his counters cause a freeze, we might be looking at one of the best Hakumen. But for now, we'll probably just get by with more solid play than anything else.

[Spark]

Looks like 2A > 6A combos on crouching. Guess it went from 16F to 14F startup at least. So close up you can do 5A > 6A > 6B/3C or 2A > 6A > 6B/3C for crouching.

[mAc Chaos]

I wonder if 6A really is safe on block. It was super fun using it in pressure back when it was.

[IndigoNovember]

http://youtu.be/gm0Vw4wC5hk?t=9m24s

Is this 5A hitting crouching Jin?  Or is this 5A hitting standing Jin whose animation is crouching but is still considered standing game logic wise?  I kinda hope it's the former, but am expecting it to be the latter.