Dacidbro Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I already forgot what started this nonsense.... ....I could go for some chinese... I said I beat the best Hazama in America. ... You know, WhiteboyWilly.
Fluck Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Sup guys, we can ignore Dacidbro Are we gonna post stuff in the match-up threads or what? Would be cool to make new CS2 threads instead as well.
ZeroRaider Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Oh, that. lol. Don't think it really needs a new thread. Edited July 8, 2011 by ZeroRaider
Dorian Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Sup guys, we can ignore Dacidbro Are we gonna post stuff in the match-up threads or what? Would be cool to make new CS2 threads instead as well. Cool story bro.
Fluck Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Oh, that. lol. Don't think it really needs a new thread. I'm cool with either (and Zidane will make the decision anyway), I just don't think we need people to read through 12 pages of advice on how to beat Tager.
ZeroRaider Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Because Hazama Vs Tager is a fucken chess match, amirite?
Fluck Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 It'd make it easier to refer to stuff in general. The thread will be less cluttered and whoever makes the thread can update the first post with all relevant information, right now most of the thread starters aren't active. Also it'll help me out when I need advice on how to be less free to Tager
Dorian Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Because Hazama Vs Tager is a fucken chess match, amirite? Yep, Hazama is the queen, Tager is the King. That's why his astral is King Of Tager.
Zidane Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 I don't think people here understand CS2 or the difference between American and Japanese play I planned on making a long post but then just said fuck it. Americans think Makoto and Noel pressure is bullshit because they can't block overheads and they can do damage from second one while Hazama needs 50% meter People don't understand that a) It's easy as shit to get 50% meter b) 50% meter will take off atleast half your life c) he gets 50% meter back into safe mixup that leads to half life damage With 50% meter, Hazama's pressure is fucking bullshit. Dacid's right, deal with it
Sol.Badguy Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Lmfao this thread.. Anyway I don't know if this is on or off topic??? but.. Does anyone go for the 5k mid screen meterless combos online? In the past I always tried to but I could only pull it off on 3^ and 2^ connections so I settled for sticking with the 3.8k or w/e for safety reasons. What do you guys think..assuming you actually play Hazama and aren't here for the pointless/stupid/useless conversations about nothing..
Whiteboywilly Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Shoutouts to everyone who hates on me. And yea I know my Hazama is not good so whatever. See ya at evo.
Dacidbro Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Shoutouts to everyone who hates on me. And yea I know my Hazama is not good so whatever. See ya at evo. I want to see money matches from everyone that called this guy out, hahaha
_Sey Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I don't think people here understand CS2 or the difference between American and Japanese play I planned on making a long post but then just said fuck it. Americans think Makoto and Noel pressure is bullshit because they can't block overheads and they can do damage from second one while Hazama needs 50% meter People don't understand that a) It's easy as shit to get 50% meter b) 50% meter will take off atleast half your life c) he gets 50% meter back into safe mixup that leads to half life damage With 50% meter, Hazama's pressure is fucking bullshit. Dacid's right, deal with it Just write that post, just do it. It's not like the Hazama forums are oooh so full of informations. 98% of those who post in here are either "keeping that shit for nationals" or clueless, apparently no one cares about the "technical" aspect of Hazama (for as much as he is an auto-pilot character), lolz u just gotta throw sum moar chainz rait guyz????
Fluck Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Just write that post, just do it. It's not like the Hazama forums are oooh so full of informations. 98% of those who post in here are either "keeping that shit for nationals" or clueless, apparently no one cares about the "technical" aspect of Hazama (for as much as he is an auto-pilot character), lolz u just gotta throw sum moar chainz rait guyz???? I'm just gonna try to answer this to the best of my ability cause I like discussing about this game. If I'm wrong anywhere, more experienced and better Hazama players can and should correct me. Hazama's pressure is really good because 5B is +2 on block. I think Dacid already mentioned this but you can do like 5B then dash 2A. The gap in there is like 5-6 frames, just enough for them to mash out a 2A if they're lucky. There's no way they could possibly react to it so they need to read such a pressure reset and do the attack. However, if you do 5B late gatling into 3C, you can create a gap and it also looks like you're going for a stagger since 5B isn't gatlinged immediately (an immediate gatling is airtight). If they mash a 5A then, what happens? You get a nice CH 3C into 5k and like 70-80 meter gain. The next time you hit the guy he is dead cause the combo is going to do 7-8k. The risk is huge, so it's not a good idea to mash at all. But if the opponents don't mash, you're constantly getting to reset pressure and get into command grab's range. Maybe next time, instead of doing a 5B stagger, you late cancel it into command grab. The resultant combo might not do alot of damage but it will give you a lot of heat. If you try to jump out of command grab, Hazama can do 2B instead. He can do 2A -> 2B -> 5B or 2A -> 5B -> 2B and if you tried to jump out before 2B you will get hit. Again, it's not going to do that much damage but it will give you heat. That's just the gist of it, but you can also do 2A -> command grab or 2A staggered into another dash 2A cause 2A is also plus on block (+1). All this without ever going into stance mix-up. Once you add stance into it, that's another factor he has to consider. Stance overhead is also + on block or hit so you can again reset your pressure. Of course, you can be hit out of stance but it's another thing he must consider in addition to command grab shenanigans and pressure resets. In addition to all this, Hazama also has 6B. He can 5B -> 6B. This leaves you +3 on block, resets pressure by reducing distance between you and the opponent, and takes away a primer. While 6B has a long start-up and isn't exactly spammable, it is again another thing the opponent has to consider. Again, the counter to 6B is to mash out, but if you do 3C instead, he gets killed. If the opponent has a DP, anytime you decide to bait a DP and get it right, he gets killed. Once Hazama gets heat, he's set. Any hit can and should be hit confirmed into Houtenjin. The resultant combo will do alot of damage and give you back all the heat you spent and more. Two mixups later, he's dead. EDIT: If you hit the stance low on him he is also dead. Edited July 8, 2011 by Fluck
Zeron_X25 Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Lmfao this thread.. Anyway I don't know if this is on or off topic??? but.. Does anyone go for the 5k mid screen meterless combos online? In the past I always tried to but I could only pull it off on 3^ and 2^ connections so I settled for sticking with the 3.8k or w/e for safety reasons. What do you guys think..assuming you actually play Hazama and aren't here for the pointless/stupid/useless conversations about nothing.. If the connection is at least a 2 bar, I always go for the full relaunch. It kinda depends on the character I'm up against since relaunch can be a bit annoying on some characters.
Eclipse Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I'm just gonna try to answer this to the best of my ability cause I like discussing about this game. If I'm wrong anywhere, more experienced and better Hazama players can and should correct me. Hazama's pressure is really good because 5B is +2 on block. I think Dacid already mentioned this but you can do like 5B then dash 2A. The gap in there is like 5-6 frames, just enough for them to mash out a 2A if they're lucky. There's no way they could possibly react to it so they need to read such a pressure reset and do the attack. However, if you do 5B late gatling into 3C, you can create a gap and it also looks like you're going for a stagger since 5B isn't gatlinged immediately (an immediate gatling is airtight). If they mash a 5A then, what happens? You get a nice CH 3C into 5k and like 70-80 meter gain. The next time you hit the guy he is dead cause the combo is going to do 7-8k. The risk is huge, so it's not a good idea to mash at all. But if the opponents don't mash, you're constantly getting to reset pressure and get into command grab's range. Maybe next time, instead of doing a 5B stagger, you late cancel it into command grab. The resultant combo might not do alot of damage but it will give you a lot of heat. If you try to jump out of command grab, Hazama can do 2B instead. He can do 2A -> 2B -> 5B or 2A -> 5B -> 2B and if you tried to jump out before 2B you will get hit. Again, it's not going to do that much damage but it will give you heat. That's just the gist of it, but you can also do 2A -> command grab or 2A staggered into another dash 2A cause 2A is also plus on block (+1). All this without ever going into stance mix-up. Once you add stance into it, that's another factor he has to consider. Stance overhead is also + on block or hit so you can again reset your pressure. Of course, you can be hit out of stance but it's another thing he must consider in addition to command grab shenanigans and pressure resets. In addition to all this, Hazama also has 6B. He can 5B -> 6B. This leaves you +3 on block, resets pressure by reducing distance between you and the opponent, and takes away a primer. While 6B has a long start-up and isn't exactly spammable, it is again another thing the opponent has to consider. Again, the counter to 6B is to mash out, but if you do 3C instead, he gets killed. If the opponent has a DP, anytime you decide to bait a DP and get it right, he gets killed. Once Hazama gets heat, he's set. Any hit can and should be hit confirmed into Houtenjin. The resultant combo will do alot of damage and give you back all the heat you spent and more. Two mixups later, he's dead. EDIT: If you hit the stance low on him he is also dead. Very very informative post. And valid points. Hazama's overhead stance attack can be followed up with 2A for people who try to mash. But anyone using a DP will be able to squeeze their way out. Hazama definitely does well with frame traps, and his stance just mixes people up more. People complaining or bragging about Hazama's damage and pressure game seem to forget something really simple in BlazBlue... Bursting. True, once he gets 50 heat, he's as deadly, if not more than Noel or Makoto. But you can just burst him during Houtenjin's animation. He loses the 50 heat, and has to work his way back up. Which isn't easy unless the opponent's giving him 3C CH's, etc. Most smart opponent's will look out for Hazama's big damage combos. He's a high risk, high reward character now. And doesn't have easy ways to gain heat, when people use bursting correctly.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Man... I haven't touched Hazama in a month. Ragna taking all my time cause of easy astral combos.
Fluck Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Just a minor correction Eclipse, I've asked others and they've said that you can't burst Houtenjin itself unless you read it and burst beforehand, so if you have to guess when to burst. If you burst too early Hazama can keep his meter since he doesn't even do Houtenjin, if Hazama Houtenjins you early and you burst mid-combo I think it is baitable by very good players due to how burst-safe the combo is.
MetalMaelstrom Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Man, that argument between Zeron and Dacid was the perfect 'welcome back' gift. I'm personally on Dacid's side since he's the only one who has the balls to troll in the Hazama forums (and not to mention his gdlk commentary), but I want to add a little something to the discussion that people seem to forget about Hazama: his anti-air options and follow ups are stupid. Stupid as in powerful. Most of his anti-airs can lead into supers or (if you don't have meter) at least do upwards of 2k damage midscreen if followed up properly. I observed this while I was in training mode and testing out Hazama's air-to-air and got depressed, so I dicked around with air-unblockables/counters. Glad I did.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Just a minor correction Eclipse, I've asked others and they've said that you can't burst Houtenjin itself unless you read it and burst beforehand, so if you have to guess when to burst. If you burst too early Hazama can keep his meter since he doesn't even do Houtenjin, if Hazama Houtenjins you early and you burst mid-combo I think it is baitable by very good players due to how burst-safe the combo is. That's nonsense. Good players will know when to burst and expect the other player to bait them. e.g After Houtenjin and after 214D~C, right when they're about to do 6C is a great time to burst. Or you could learn your opponent's gameplan and see when they prefer to Houtenjin. If they're the 5B, 3C type, you can always burst after 3C. This whole bursting thing has nothing to do with Hazama as a character.
Fluck Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 That's nonsense. Good players will know when to burst and expect the other player to bait them. e.g After Houtenjin and after 214D~C, right when they're about to do 6C is a great time to burst. Or you could learn your opponent's gameplan and see when they prefer to Houtenjin. If they're the 5B, 3C type, you can always burst after 3C. This whole bursting thing has nothing to do with Hazama as a character. It's true that 6C is one of the best places to burst but if you burst too late during 6C, Hazama will be out of range, and if you burst too early you can get killed as well. So you need to learn the timing (this is of course not like super hard or anything) but since you can't burst 6C on reaction, Hazama can still bait a burst by blocking, especially since he knows people want to burst that particular combo and the spinning momentum stops when you burst. 5C 2C are both jump cancellable so in theory you can react to the burst (22f) if you're looking out for it. After that the combo pieces involving chains are more or less burst-safe. Of course I'm not saying it's impossible to burst Hazama out of his combo or anything, I merely said it's possible to bait a burst during the combo and that the combo is quite burst-safe, which I do think it is if you compare it to most other combos, even if only because of chains. You can at least subject the opponent to a guess just by altering your hit-confirm. Just as you pointed out yourself, if Hazama does 5B 3C Houtenjin then it's easy to burst after 3C and burst Houtenjin, but Hazama isn't only limited to that. You can do 5B 5C super or 5B 5C 2C super. Then the opponent won't know which normal will be cancelled into Houtenjin.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 5C 2C are both jump cancellable so in theory you can react to the burst (22f) if you're looking out for it. After that the combo pieces involving chains are more or less burst-safe. You can at least subject the opponent to a guess just by altering your hit-confirm. Just as you pointed out yourself, if Hazama does 5B 3C Houtenjin then it's easy to burst after 3C and burst Houtenjin, but Hazama isn't only limited to that. You can do 5B 5C super or 5B 5C 2C super. Then the opponent won't know which normal will be cancelled into Houtenjin. Yes but that doesn't matter when you burst the followup because a normal + Houtenjin - followup = shit damage. And let's be honest here. You can't bait bursts whenever you land a single combo. Not everyone is going to burst the moment you get a hit. You can't waste damage and knockdown always looking for a burst. With the same mentality, the other player can burst safely. But... it doesn't matter because this has nothing to do with Hazama's pressure. And CS2 is really boring.
Fluck Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Yes but that doesn't matter when you burst the followup because a normal + Houtenjin - followup = shit damage. And let's be honest here. You can't bait bursts whenever you land a single combo. Not everyone is going to burst the moment you get a hit. You can't waste damage and knockdown always looking for a burst. With the same mentality, the other player can burst safely. But... it doesn't matter because this has nothing to do with Hazama's pressure. And CS2 is really boring. Yes, I won't argue with this. I only wanted to say that it isn't totally safe to burst against Hazama and it might be in your interest to bait a burst sometimes (if only to get the mindgame working against the opponent and make them more afraid to burst your next combo). My main reason in responding to Eclipse's post was to make sure he wasn't mistaken and thought that the opponent could burst Houtenjin itself every time, Hazama would be like B tier or something if that were the case. Also, MetalMaelstrom, 2k damage mid-screen is not S-tier and neither is being able to cancel anti-airs into supers.
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