Lich Posted June 30, 2012 Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Everyone should do stuff > Houtenjin > zaneiga lv2 > 6A > 665C > 2C > tK loop instead of the other combo. This guarantees corner carry and for some odd reason is much easier to loop than from 6C > 5C > jc stuff. No. Why? Did you actually look at the numbers? Let me put it into perspective. Standard midscreen with 6c starting from 5b>Houtenjin without carrying to corner = 5.6k damage 44 meter. With 6A = 5.1k damage 40 meter. Same distance carried. Standard midscreen with 6c starting from 5b>Houtenjin with carrying to corner = 5.6k damage 46 meter. With 6A = 5.1k damage and I can't remember the number right now for meter but I know its less. And if you started the combo with 6a hello proration. :V Just no. Edited June 30, 2012 by Lich
Zeron_X25 Posted June 30, 2012 Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Notice how I said it's easier? At least for me. ok here's what I got from the 6A thing. So far, I came up with one that does 5.5k and gets 56 heat. Edited June 30, 2012 by Zeron_X25
Lich Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Notice how I said it's easier? At least for me. ok here's what I got from the 6A thing. So far, I came up with one that does 5.5k and gets 56 heat. What is the starter you are using? Because it all depends on your starter. If you are starting it with 5b and you're talking about midscreen please tell me the notations so I can go ahead and try it out myself.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Just 5B > Houtenjin. Ugh what was it again.... 5B > Houtenjin > dash zaneiga Lv2 > 6A > 665C (both hits) > 6C > dash 5C > jc > j.Cx5 > land dash 2C (dash could be optional) > TK > dash 5C > 2C > TK > dash 5C > 2C > flash kick > dash(optional) 5C > 2C > flash kick I hope I didn't mess up anything. Edited July 1, 2012 by Zeron_X25
Fluck Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Everyone should do stuff > Houtenjin > zaneiga lv2 > 6A > 665C > 2C > tK loop instead of the other combo. This guarantees corner carry and for some odd reason is much easier to loop than from 6C > 5C > jc stuff. Notice how I said it's easier? At least for me. ok here's what I got from the 6A thing. So far, I came up with one that does 5.5k and gets 56 heat. :V
Zeron_X25 Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 :V I didn't think anyone would say no. Which is why I later changed my statement.
Guymam Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Man, what's all this notation shit. I get drunk and make shit up.
Lich Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) I came up with one that does 5.5k and gets 56 heat. Zeron why you lie to me? The combo you listed does 5.4k and you get 43 heat. While this combo gets you 5.6k and 45 heat: 5B>Houtenjin>Zaneigalv2>6C>5C>2C>TK>5C>jc>J.Cx5>2C>TK>5C>2C>Flashkick>5C>2C>Flashkick. Of course you put in dashes where necessary. Although, I normally opt for 3c>Flashkick combo ender but yeah. In addition, the combo you listed does not work on these characters: Makoto, Carl, and Arakune. It is also extremely difficult on these characters: Hazama, Haku-men, and Bang. Now to be fair, the combo I listed does not work on: Makoto, Tao, Rachel, and Carl, but is universally easier on all characters and there is a simpler BnB that does roughly the same as the combo you posted. In addition, Hazama, Jin, and Tsubaki are subject to an even better midscreen BnB than the one I posted consisting of two TK's before the first jump canceled 5c so there is really no point to do it on them. On the plus side, you did actually help me figure out a combo that actually gets you 50 heat off of 5B. It does not work off of a 6A combo starter and there are more optimal combos midscreen off of better starters like 5c, but off 5B I found: 5B>Houtenjin>Zaneigalv2>6A>5C>6C>5C>jc>J.Cx5>2C>TK>5C>2C>Tk>5C>jc>J.Cx5>5C>Flashkick>3C>Flashkick. It does the same damage as before, 5.4k, but gives 50 meter. So... that might be optimal. lol Although, its more difficult than the standard bnb and may not work on all characters. Overall, 6A can be used, but the combo you listed is a tad more difficult and is universally less optimal with less reward. I think the main reason you believe its easier is because the distance created by the 6C may throw off your dash 5C timing? Other than that I couldn't understand why for the combo is very simple. I mean, I guess if its easier for you Zeron go for it, but I wouldn't call it optimal. I also wouldn't tell everyone to do it. lol Edited July 1, 2012 by Lich
Zeron_X25 Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Wait I'm confused. I changed the 665C > 2C > TK already so are you talking about that one? Cause I didn't lie about anything. The combo I told you should have done 5.5k with 56 heat. Maybe I posted it wrong. Let me check it again. And yeah it's mainly easier because the distance from 6C catches me off my rhythm. And concerning the everyone should do it thing, I already retracted my statement. EDIT: Oh I get it. I missed an extra TK in the notation. Not only that but you can add a 3C to the end of it as well. I'm not sure if that's needed or not. Just tried it on Jin and it gets you 59 heat. EDIT 2: It works on Makoto. You just have to do 5C(1) > jc > j.Cx5 instead of 5C(2) and you still get 59 heat + 5.5k. Edited July 1, 2012 by Zeron_X25
Arkhelist Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 New to the forums but is there a reason there are no threads on the unlimited versions of each character? Im pretty bad at hazama only recent being able to pull 2k combos (and not very efficiently at that) after a year and a half of playing him. But on his unlimited form i can get easily pull most combos that do around 3,4, and 6k. And I am able to fight hell mode unlimited characters as well and win about 75% of the time and i would like to get better but some of the combos posted don't work with him because of the difference in certain moves in unlimited.
Lich Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 New to the forums but is there a reason there are no threads on the unlimited versions of each character? Im pretty bad at hazama only recent being able to pull 2k combos (and not very efficiently at that) after a year and a half of playing him. But on his unlimited form i can get easily pull most combos that do around 3,4, and 6k. And I am able to fight hell mode unlimited characters as well and win about 75% of the time and i would like to get better but some of the combos posted don't work with him because of the difference in certain moves in unlimited. Unlimited characters are imbalanced, but on purpose. They are simply there for fun and not dedicated play. If you really want to get better at the game practice normal Hazama, not unlimited Hazama. Now, if you really, really want to know viable combos for unlimited characters, Unlimited Hazama's play is identical to cs1 except he's a lot faster. So.... go look up cs 1 combos or something if you're really dedicated to getting better as an unlimited version of a character.
Arkhelist Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Thanks, it has been pretty hard to understand the special terms, frames, and the long number/letter combos that explain how to play as him effectively so all i can do is watch a video and try to copy it. I don't play online to much for this reason since i just keep getting beat down by ragnas, arakunes, and valkenheyns, and just play for fun with my bro so we like to use unlimited characters when we play, hence why i was wondering if the had something for them.
Crono Reyer Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Whats the benefit of using the 214D~B > 3C ender in corner combos instead of a j.214B ender? I'm a pretty big scrub and can't do the loop, so my combo looks a bit like this; 5B > 5C(2) > 3C > 236D > 66C > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > 214D~B > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > [4D~D > j.Cx5 > j.214B] where I use the j.214B ender. I looked in the combo thread and what it seems like I should be doing is this as an ender; 5B > 5C(2) > 3C > 236D > 66C > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > 214D~B > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > [214D~B > 3C] I put the areas in question in brackets. So I just want to know what the benefit is of using the other ender. More heat? Damage? Better oki setup? Also it seems pretty weird to do, is it just kind of an odd timing or is there a flaw in my combo leading up to the ender?
Putin Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Actually you won't be ending your combos with 3C often, I guess they left it that way in the wiki so you can choose between a second Gasshoukyaku or Mizuchi for an ender. You can do either 214D~B > 66 3C > 214D~B, or 214D~B > 66 5C > 2C > 214D~B. But yeah, 214D~B provides better oki. Hirentotsu ender offers decent oki too by mashing 2A, but it requires kinda specific height in order to work. With the proper spacing you can get a Mizuchi finisher after 3C, or A Houtenjin after the second Gasshoukyaku if you're going for the kill and you know Mizuchi won't connect.
_Sey Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Whats the benefit of using the 214D~B > 3C ender in corner combos instead of a j.214B ender? I'm a pretty big scrub and can't do the loop, so my combo looks a bit like this; 5B > 5C(2) > 3C > 236D > 66C > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > 214D~B > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > [4D~D > j.Cx5 > j.214B] where I use the j.214B ender. I looked in the combo thread and what it seems like I should be doing is this as an ender; 5B > 5C(2) > 3C > 236D > 66C > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > 214D~B > 66 > 5C(2) > 2C > [214D~B > 3C] I put the areas in question in brackets. So I just want to know what the benefit is of using the other ender. More heat? Damage? Better oki setup? Also it seems pretty weird to do, is it just kind of an odd timing or is there a flaw in my combo leading up to the ender? http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13815-Hazama-Technical-Gameplay-Discussion&p=1350235&viewfull=1#post1350235 better oki/safe jumps, but you can do alot of other stuff too...for example you could do ...> 66C > 66 > 5C > jCx5 > 66 5C > 214D~B and you get a dash under mix up/2D chain gimmick/iad back cross up kind of setup, it's not too strong but it is pretty tricky. 214D~B > 3C > 214D~B also gives better positioning against a few characters. for example vs Mu if you do double 214D~B ender you can go into stance and you will be out of her dp range and if she wakes up super (632146C forgot the name, yatasomething?) you can ~B to clash/nullify it and then punish her. this generally loses to wake up mash tho. j214B isn't a bad ender either, it's actually pretty solid and was the staple corner oki for Hazama up till CSEX, just don't do it too high off the ground or meaty 2A won't catch forward rolls. Edited September 13, 2012 by _Sey
Putin Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Stance oki to Zaneiga beats wake up mash, at least against the people I play. It also beats forward rolls into 5K and 100 meter, even though nobody will attempt to roll when you're that far away.
Desert Fox Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 Hey guys. Any tips on dash-installing Jayoku?
maximummcnugget Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 I remember doing the same thing, like during Jakou i would spam 236236 then as Jakou ends input 6b and would get it to work most of the time.
Lich Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 Mostly the only time you'll need to do a dashing Jayoku is after a 623D so its really lenient. Just buffer it slow and make sure you return the stick to neutral before you input the final six. The 6-6 needs to be pretty quick but the 236236 can be kinda slow so it makes it a bit easier. So just buffer jayoku before you can actually move and then when you know Hazama is able input the final 6B.
_Sey Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) 623D > mash 236236 like a retard > 6B is teh way seriously, you could even just spin your stick as if you were an online Tager and dashing hountejin would still come out. number 1 reason you may not get a dashing houtenjin after jakou is if you hit too early w/ jakou (too much hitstun/dumb csex nerf). Edited November 3, 2012 by _Sey
Linkexelo Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 Moreover, be careful about the range and the character like Bang. The Jayoku can whiff, even with the good timing. So, make sure you can do it, or prefer a classic Rapid->Stance C.
Desert Fox Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the help, guys! I finally got it down. Edited November 3, 2012 by Desert Fox
Ctrlaltwtf Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) My only tip in addition to what others have already said would be to visualize the input in your head as 236236 -> 6+B. This really helps me do it reliably. There's a lot of use for this on wake-up as well, because people will pressure you with stuff because they think they're safely out of range. A really good example is Lambda trying to camp you in the corner with her 5Cs Edited November 4, 2012 by Ctrlaltwtf
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