[CS1] Iron Tager Evolution in the Loketests

[GunslingerSonic]

@Axis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8I_nw309E#t=6m42s

720 didn't purple off of 5B, though it did look quite delayed.

Slightly delayed.

[Waks]

It might've been slightly delayed.. But from what I know, that kind of delay would still net you purple !!'s in CS1.

[natearistata]

Maybe it's just the difference between actually playing and watching, but I'm fairly certain I do 720s off of 5B faster than that right now.

[Waks]

Its also possible that youtube did that for us, haha

[A.X.I.S.]

You guys are debating a delayed 720? It was a regular delay 720.

Probably different timing because of the added hit stun on 5B? Beats me.

Without actually trying the game I can't say it.

[GZ-Matthias]

You can 720C off of 2B and 2B is +5 on block. (Corrected).

You can 720C off of gadget finger and it's a situation where you're at about +2.

Stop debating this.

edit to be clear: and by "can 720C" I mean you can do it without it being !! techable, by just delaying and knowing your timing.

Edited December 21, 2010 by GZ-Matthias

[Osuna]

You can 720C off of 2B and 2B is +3 on block.

You can 720C off of gadget finger and it's a situation where you're at about +2.

Stop debating this.

edit to be clear: and by "can 720C" I mean you can do it without it being !! techable, by just delaying and knowing your timing.

We all know that, the real point of contention was whether or not the timing was slower or faster than usual on that tick. Myself, waks and Heroic think it looked much faster and would have purpled in CS1. Axis and Nartearista seem to think that 5B was delayed a lot more than usual, perhaps hinting at the rumored later 720 timing off 5B. Also 2B is plus 5 not plus 3 and 5B was -3, so there could be a decent shift in timing if it went plus.

That whole less hitstop thing might make tick throws a lot stronger if 5B's is as short as I'm seeing. It's not even a level 1 or 0 move and that was pretty fast, probably. So I'm thinking things like J.A 360B could be really fast and sudden, maybe.

[Manta]

What's frame advantage got to do with anything when you're using a super-cancellable move?

[GZ-Matthias]

What's frame advantage got to do with anything when you're using a super-cancellable move?

It has to do with when your opponent would leave blockstun for you to be able to time the throw correctly. If you super cancel and land the grab while they're in blockstun (or in that state where BB still considers a throw "!!" tech able shortly after they recover), it'll be tech able. Correct?

And ya less hitstop does make tick throws more effective.

Check PMs because this discussion is kind of a big derail in this topic and I think we're both talking about the same 'idea' just from different angles. In the interest of not cluttering this topic about CSII tager, lets take it to PMs.

v v v

Edited December 22, 2010 by GZ-Matthias

[Manta]

It has to do with when your opponent would leave blockstun for you to be able to time the throw correctly. If you super cancel and land the grab while they're in blockstun (or in that state where BB still considers a throw "!!" tech able shortly after they recover), it'll be tech able. Correct?

And ya less hitstop does make tick throws more effective.

Well duh. But frame advantage refers to who has the advantage if a move is blocked but also not cancelled. If you can cancel out of the move, then all you're really interested in is the attack level of the move

[Osuna]

Well duh. But frame advantage refers to who has the advantage if a move is blocked but also not cancelled. If you can cancel out of the move, then all you're really interested in is the attack level of the move

The attack level of the move infers the blockstun length, but frame advantage is useful in that it tells you relative to the length of the move when they will recover, which I personally find Way more practically useful than attack level when learning a tick throw.

Also if a move is say plus 5 on block like 2B is, then you won't be canceling it into a throw anyway, you know this instantly because it is plus 5, not because of it's attack level. Except for 6A which can hit at really different times, I find that the frame advantage is a better cue for when to throw. Also my personal 4 fav ticks are levels 0, 1, 2 and 3 so I can't even carry the timing from a given level across multiple moves.

But more importantly, I mentioned the frame advantage to show that 5B didn't have a lot of hit stun for the length of the move, and the timing for the throw could change a lot or become more confusing if they messed with the recovery or attack level. They just have a lot of room to mess with 5B in that direction compared to say 2B.