[CS1] Iron Tager Evolution in the Loketests

[evilben]

well, i figured id compile a collection of Tager changes from the loketests so we can get an easy compact view of everything we *think* might be different. these are just copy pastes from the front page of each loketest thread, so i might be missing some stuff!

Loke 1:

* Possible hitbox adjustment (Litchi's jB, immediately done from a straight jump up, won't hit)

* 6A faster start up, super armor, chargeable(won't pull in mid-charge), no longer jump cancellable (needs more insight)

* 5D has a stronger pull

Loke 2:

* When guard broken, throws are now green instead of purple

* Green bursting now removes half your primers rounded up, meaning a character with five primers would be reduced to two primers (old system: five reduced to three)

voltic charge command now 214D

+ magnetism pull now stronger

+ 6A can now be held to pull in opponent

+ can gadget after 360A

+ sledge hammer much faster

+ 4D pulls more

+ Sledge follow up as anti-projectile armor

- 5D only pulls opponent during active frames

- 5C cannot combo into 6A

Loke 3:

- Sledge followup slower than in the previous loketest.

+ Sledge followup has Fatal property.

+ 5C air unblockable (can be barrier guarded).

loke 4:

* All characters have either a 5B or 5C that's air unblockable

* Guard crush prorate 100% on first hit only, 80% for the rest

(no tager changes?)

loke 5:

* New mechanic: Corner Bound. Red effect appears when they hit the corner, they fall down like they got hit with a knockdown. Most interesting property is the untechable time buff, most of the moves that corner bounce are untechable in air.

* System announcer changed again evidently even worse w/r/t engrish.

* All characters' Counter Assaults have a gap added into them, making them hard to use.

* Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

* Meter increase penalty time increased, in other words, you get back meter much slower after you cause meter actions

* No confirmed corner bounces.

* Appears ridiculously strong, according to information from Yuumura-sensei. Charged 6A is surprisingly useful.

+ 22D does 100 damage

+ 2C>3C added

+ B-Tager Buster connects with more characters. Rachel eats 4800 from a B-Buster and gives Tager oki, but was it like this in CS already? I saw Arakune picked up with Gadget Finger after B-Buster.

+ Backthrow launches opponent straight upward, easier to follow up after.

+ 3C recovery reduced.

+ j.2C CH causes knockdown, made slower, easier to follow up after.

+ Sledge followup has superarmor halfway through.

+ Can easily sneak 720 from 421B (lit. charge cancel)

- 2C > 4D gatling removed

- j.D magnetism pull weaker

- no follow up combo from regular throw

my lunch break is coming to an end, later i will sift through them to get a comprehensive list of the final state of things (unless someone else is bored and does it 1st)

final change compilation

possible hitbox adjustment..?

6A: chargeable, pulls while held, super armor

5C: air unblockable, 5C >> 6A gone

2C: 2C >> 4D gone, 2C >> 3C added

3C: recovery reduced

j2C: knockdown on counter hit

mag pull in general stronger

5D: only pulls during active frames

4D: pull increased

j.D: pull weaker (compared to CS1 or compared to previous loketests?)

Hammer: faster(maybe?) has autoguard half way through, unconfirmed fatal counter (most likely not there)

GF: deals 100 dmg, can grab everyone after 360A(?)

voltic charge: 214B, can cancel into 720 (im pretty sure the 421 in the loketest 5 was a typo)

throws: no combo on forward throw, back throw pops straight up for easy combo, throws in general are going to suck if i remember right.

system stuff:

insta block advantage reduced.

guard primers lost for burst rounds up

no tech on throws from guard crush.

did i miss anything?

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CS2 Tager Changes=============================================

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+ 6A: Has upper body super armor with infinite(?) amount of hits. Loses to lows. Has higher pull in and charge up.

+ J.C>j.b works on hazama, litchi, valk, and hazama.

+ 360B damage increase?

+ ASledge buffed (either speed or distance).

- 6A loses jump cancel property.

o Charge is 214D

o 2C has not gatling besides into 3C

o GETB has changed magnetism properties (unsure).

ill update more as they go up and i see them

Edited December 9, 2010 by evilben

[Nobus3r1]

Thanks for compiling all of this. I also missed the part where 'Hammer' had fatal property. That move should have like a super fatal property in that if you're dumb enough to get hit by it you just lose the round. On a related note I am also thankful if the pull on active frames only change sticks for 5D as I get tired of flinging opponents who've pressed a button into my own face.

[A.X.I.S.]

The fatal property on Hammer was a rumor.

It was never confirmed.

[Edalborez]

Bit confused on whether Voltic is still 421B or 214D, though it isn't that important I suppose :x Gadget doing 100 damage seems so troll-like. Will be interesting to see the new 6A as well.

[DJ Koopa]

Only troll-like in Unlimited where you can gadget form anywhere. Otherwise, so many times I've comboed to MTW>TB only to have them NOT die with their health bar depleted. Obviously you'd go for 2D>AC just to do like 3 damage. Now, we get the KO with a Gadget!

By the way, does this mean Tager moves up to lower-mid instead of being upper-lower tier?

[Isorropia]

By the way, does this mean Tager moves up to lower-mid instead of being upper-lower tier?

This doesn't mean anything. Just wait for the game to come out and for the new characters/character styles to be explored before you start talking about tiers. I remember early in CS1 tager was doing well in tournaments, and people were calling him high tier.

[Henaki]

gadget doing damage will be funny with double gadget trick

now, if it did 800 damage and scaled, that would be fucking hysterical. arakune or lambda guessing wrong twice = death haha.

[DJ Koopa]

You do realize that was a joke, right? Implying that Tager'd only move up 1 spot on the list.

[GunslingerSonic]

You can't do a follow-up combo from a regular throw.

So can you do a follow-up combo from a backwards throw?

It's doesn't say nothing about backwards throws.

Just want to make sure.

[Edalborez]

I was getting the impression that his throw just isn't special cancelable anymore, not that there are no followups period. If back throw does indeed make them bounce up more an alternative followup definitely exists.

[Isorropia]

Forward throw with mag > 5C6A or 6A2C works on most chars, no luck without magnetism though (except in corner of course).

[Henaki]

im pretty sure you can spark after throw recovery

[Nakkiel]

6A also doesn't combo from 5C anymore.

[A.X.I.S.]

Erhem if your opponent is magnetized 6A will combo after normal throw recovery on everyone.

Also be glad VTC is changed to 214D because we can never screw up spark and get that...right?

[Manta]

Confusing 214D with 41236D? Only if you're spazzing out on the stick or getting crossed up. Why are you tryin to spark bolt whilst being crossed up?

[Koopa_Klawz]

i still want a full screen magnetism move even though that will never happen.

[DJ Koopa]

CRAP. There goes my mid-combo Spark>5C>6A>AC hold trap...

[evilben]

try Spark 2C AH hold instead...

[DJ Koopa]

But 2H knocks them up, and with these changes being stated the AC would have to be delayed 'til they came down.

[A.X.I.S.]

2C>AC is so CT and it only works on people who never played CT.

I prefer actually doing the combo.

[evilben]

@DJ Koopa im confused as to why you would need to wait... i dont see any changes that would affect that.

@AXIS: yea i know... but 5C >> 6A is out, so we will need to find something else i guess.

I'd say 6A air throw but we lost that.

hell we still have spark air throw but it depends on height.

I think we lost some options over the loctests.

Hopefully we might see some of them back.

Sorry I meant to make a new post and ended up editing yours curse my new powers -_-.

Edited December 3, 2010 by A.X.I.S.

[Darlos9D]

But 2H knocks them up

Tager gettin bitches pregnant

Oddly, I think out of all these things I'm most interested in Sledge apparently being faster overall. Assuming that change still applies.

[evilben]

Sledge is not faster, hammer is.

[Zarithan]

I can remember reading something about Sledge followup that now moves Tager a bit forward ( unlike regular Hammer in CS )

[GunslingerSonic]

CRAP. There goes my mid-combo Spark>5C>6A>AC hold trap...

Do Spark>5C>AC>etc etc etc

Simple.