Instant Blocking

[Ril I am]

IMO there are different reasons for IB, depending on what the situation is and what you want to do. To be honest, I'd say LEARN TO BLOCK FIRST before you even delve into Instant Block. Overheads, Mixup, Crossups, all of that are something you have to learn to block bar none. Only IB for these reasons:

IBing for Advantage: This one's obvious, you IB for the frame advantage if you're aiming for hitting them with a counter/fatal counter (Ragna has the best FC after IB, I think), backing out of a situation (Arakune definitely needs this, especially versus Tsubaki/Valkenhayn pressure). Best to IB when you SEE SOMETHING coming and can react to it or have a move prepared that is suitable AFTER you've IB'd (slow startup moves don't exactly work in between guardstrings after IBs).

IBing for Meter: This one is actually aimed towards Haku-men players, but it can apply to others too. You get a little heat each time you IB, so every little bit helps. It's primarily for characters who can afford to block and have lots of HP.

IBing for Openings: This one is kinda hard to pull off, but for example's sake, say you're dealing with someone who spams Inferno Divider, normally this move is air unblockable, but if you IB it, not only don't you lose HP, but it CAN be blocked without Barrier. This is a gamble and quite risky, as some moves actually can't be IBed no matter what (Ragna's 6A) and have to be Barriered in the air. And then there are moves that are completely unblockable (Haku's Yukikaze, Jin's Charged Hirensou, Tsubaki's Charged 22+D, Hazama's 623D) so having caution and knowing when to jump instead of sit and block all day is important too.

Remember though, IBing won't save you from Guard Break, as no amount of IBing will help against people destroying your Guard Primers, only Barrier can help with that and only on the last Primer and even then you're risking double damage if you run out of Barrier.

[unsanctifier]

Someone drag Blade out on to the street and shoot him. Please.

[Circuitous]

This thread went on 3 pages longer than it had to.

[tastylumpia]

Everyone should just play more bemani games.

[Blade]

Damn I miss CT.

This. Sorry, I forgot, only CT lets you IB Inferno Divider from the air. *was playing BBCT Portable recently*

[PhoenonX]

This thread went on 3 pages longer than it had to.

Unless of course you're like me and have set to 40 posts per page, which is incredibly useful, might I add.

[qwerty]

i normally wouldn't go out of my way to make a post like this, but this is the beginner forum and there could be kids reading this.

IMO there are different reasons for IB, depending on what the situation is and what you want to do. To be honest, I'd say LEARN TO BLOCK FIRST before you even delve into Instant Block. Overheads, Mixup, Crossups, all of that are something you have to learn to block bar none.

probably the closest thing to sound advice you've ever given; only problem being that you should be able to block most stuff in bb on reaction because overheads are hilariously slow in this game. not to mention that learning to ib will actually make those situations BETTER for you, so if anything, learning to ib is MORE important.

IBing for Advantage: This one's obvious, you IB for the frame advantage if you're aiming for hitting them with a counter/fatal counter (Ragna has the best FC after IB, I think), backing out of a situation (Arakune definitely needs this, especially versus Tsubaki/Valkenhayn pressure). Best to IB when you SEE SOMETHING coming and can react to it or have a move prepared that is suitable AFTER you've IB'd (slow startup moves don't exactly work in between guardstrings after IBs).

you advise people to mash a 12 frame startup move from +5, then go on to say it's not such a good idea?

IBing for Meter: This one is actually aimed towards Haku-men players, but it can apply to others too. You get a little heat each time you IB, so every little bit helps. It's primarily for characters who can afford to block and have lots of HP.

as if any character can afford to NOT block? if you're talking about getting guardcrushed, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY INSTANT BLOCKING EXISTS- SO YOU CAN GET OUT BEFORE THAT HAPPENS.

IBing for Openings: This one is kinda hard to pull off, but for example's sake, say you're dealing with someone who spams Inferno Divider, normally this move is air unblockable, but if you IB it, not only don't you lose HP, but it CAN be blocked without Barrier. This is a gamble and quite risky, as some moves actually can't be IBed no matter what (Ragna's 6A) and have to be Barriered in the air. And then there are moves that are completely unblockable (Haku's Yukikaze, Jin's Charged Hirensou, Tsubaki's Charged 22+D, Hazama's 623D) so having caution and knowing when to jump instead of sit and block all day is important too.

what does any of this have to do with "openings"? how is this any different from "ib'ing for advantage"? not even delving into the technical errors here.

Remember though, IBing won't save you from Guard Break, as no amount of IBing will help against people destroying your Guard Primers, only Barrier can help with that and only on the last Primer and even then you're risking double damage if you run out of Barrier.

in the sense that ib doesn't negate guard primer i guess you are technically correct. but like i said earlier, if you ib and jump/mash out, you will avoid the situation entirely.

[Mightfo]

probably the closest thing to sound advice you've ever given; only problem being that you should be able to block most stuff in bb on reaction because overheads are hilariously slow in this game.

I've seen a lot of people say this, but aren't almost all ground overheads in GG 20-24 frames as well?

[huey253]

I've seen a lot of people say this, but aren't almost all ground overheads in GG 20-24 frames as well?

bb actually has a faster grounded overhead than GG does (hakumen's 6B 15 frames i believe)

bb overheads are actually about the same speed, but certain individuals don't seem to realize it i guess.

that anti bb movement yo

[bbq sauce]

Dusts and command normal overheads like Slayer 6K..

But, I'll gladly quit this game the day niggas can react to a TK yozansen.

Also, being able to actually force oki from anything that knocks down lets a player create a lot more ambiguous high/low situations, opposed to being limited to just throwing command normals in a block string.

[Mightfo]

Dusts and command normal overheads like Slayer 6K..

But, I'll gladly quit this game the day niggas can react to a TK yozansen.

Slayer's 6k is 20 frames. Makoto's 6b is 19. Makoto's is above average in BB, but still.

Most dusts are 22-24 it seems, and some are complete ass like 26/27 frames, and a lot are unsafe on block, lol (Not Chipp's, thankfully!)

tk yozansen is indeed gdlk

Also, being able to actually force oki from anything that knocks down lets a player create a lot more ambiguous high/low situations, opposed to being limited to just throwing command normals in a block string.

Yeah, I get that for sure. I'm not saying mixup isn't stronger than GG, but throwing out random stuff like "the overheads are hideously slow" doesn't seem legit.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Mightfo

[qwerty]

mightfo, you can feint slayer's 6K.

and let's not forget that there's actual high/low mixups in gg as well.

[huey253]

i guess some people have never played againist valkenhayn/litchi/etc...

i feel sorry, you must be playing againist some really bad people if you think there aren't high low mixups in bb

[dveezy]

That boy quash! Yea litttle threads like this do help! Not all of us know everythinng and in that matter I ask

Teknically speaking how does ib work?! I was reading on bb basics on dustloop and it says you can instant block if you press back 5 frames before the attack hits you! So if it has a long start up should I wait a bit and blovk at the last second? I always try to ib and obviously do it wrong and get hit.

Also someone should change that ib saves guard primers on the bb basics. On dustloop ;/

[qwerty]

mixup means you're forced to guess; as in, you can't react because it happens too fast.

i don't know about valk, but i don't know of anyone in cs1 arcade with a truly unreactable high/low.

[huey253]

what

CS litchi

5A into jB or a low (works on tager or hakumen)

Chou's SBO daisharin setup (extremely ambigous crossunder)

CS Bang

FRKZ crossup jC is too hard to block correctly on reaction

CS Arakune

instant overhead crossup jC

EDIT: i guess you haven't been playing really good people in BBCS then...

Edited January 3, 2011 by huey253

[Mightfo]

mightfo, you can feint slayer's 6K.

Indeed you can, and that is a wonderful thing and I wish fighters had more feintable normals in general, but that has does little to help the claim that overheads in BB are hilariously slow, although the broad picture of why mixup is worse is important.

[mAc Chaos]

Saying mixup only includes unreactable things is defining it too narrowly, I think.

Mixup is just a string of attacks that makes the opponent have to alternate between different modes of blocking or throw breaking, such as a low then a high.

Unreactable things are just extremely good mixup.

Edited January 3, 2011 by mAc Chaos

[axel]

what

CS litchi

5A into jB or a low (works on tager or hakumen)

Chou's SBO daisharin setup (extremely ambigous crossunder)

CS Bang

FRKZ crossup jC is too hard to block correctly on reaction

CS Arakune

instant overhead crossup jC

EDIT: i guess you haven't been playing really good people in BBCS then...

Millia's TK Bad Moon, Iron Saber FRC j.K, Turbo Fall crossup, Roll crossup, 6K while opponent is waking up to a Disc trap

Pretty sure mixups from one character in GG beats any in BB hands down.

[bbq sauce]

Slayer's 6k is 20 frames. Makoto's 6b is 19. Makoto's is above average in BB, but still.

Most dusts are 22-24 it seems, and some are complete ass like 26/27 frames, and a lot are unsafe on block, lol (Not Chipp's, thankfully!)

tk yozansen is indeed gdlk

Yeah, I get that for sure. I'm not saying mixup isn't stronger than GG, but throwing out random stuff like "the overheads are hideously slow" doesn't seem legit.

The "Dusts and command normals like Slayer 6K" comment was in agreement with you, the below was the rebuttle.

i guess some people have never played againist valkenhayn/litchi/etc...

i feel sorry, you must be playing againist some really bad people if you think there aren't high low mixups in bb

Nobody saying that BB doesn't have mixups.. I've seen enough of the game, to know it has pretty silly mix ups.. But, that was not the current conversation, or his original comment.

The point was it's not the norm, and all of what you listed are exceptions.

Edited January 3, 2011 by bbq sauce

[huey253]

no, he literally said there was no mixups, go read his post.

i've played guilty gear and i also understand how much better the mixup is,

niggas are just acting like it doesn't exist at in Blazblue

[huey253]

mixup means you're forced to guess; as in, you can't react because it happens too fast.

i don't know about valk, but i don't know of anyone in cs1 arcade with a truly unreactable high/low.

lalala double post

[bbq sauce]

To be fair, in your following post, you only listed to actual high/lows. One of which only works on two characters.. :8/:

[Delrian]

I was reading on bb basics on dustloop and it says you can instant block if you press back 5 frames before the attack hits you! So if it has a long start up should I wait a bit and blovk at the last second? I always try to ib and obviously do it wrong and get hit.

I believe this tip is in the BBCS console tutorial:

Try to instant block (slightly) early so you can hold back, that way if you mess up the instant block you still end up blocking the attack.

[qwerty]

i didn't want to continue this discussion in this thread, but i just remembered about it and figured i should finish what i started.

lalala double post

huey, you are putting words in my mouth- i said i didn't know of any. besides, the fact that you had to go out of your way to list a bunch of "mixups" (only two of which are actually unreactable) only proves my point better than i could ever hope to. every rule has an exception, etc.

snip.

sorry man, i don't make the rules, i just enforce them. a mixup is when your opponent is forced to guess, and that's that. see this thread for a better explanation.

Indeed you can, and that is a wonderful thing and I wish fighters had more feintable normals in general, but that has does little to help the claim that overheads in BB are hilariously slow, although the broad picture of why mixup is worse is important.

go try the millia mixup blocker, then come back and tell me that every frame doesn't count.

though you are right about ground overheads only being a small part of a bigger picture. that is very much the case in guilty gear, where you have things like actually unreactable fuzzy guards as well as homo shit like nets, unblockables, restive frc, etc. blazblue? well, i don't need to spell everything out, do i?