Rhiya Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey, 214D is good >_> It just costs charge most people aren't willing to spend
Kiba Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 The difference between it and 623A is that 623D is invincible until it hits D: Hey, 214D is good >_> It just costs charge most people aren't willing to spend I agree with you. I only started to realise how good it is.
pktazn Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 True true. Since we can get charges easily now that's probably why more people are using it often in CS2.
Rhiya Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 D: I agree with you. I only started to realise how good it is. Yeah. One day, I sat down and looked at the frame data, and just headdesked. I barely use 3C right now (outside of 2C/3C OS), but it has 100 P1, so it's got fucking great rewards when it hits, and you can do combos off it usually reserved for clean 22D. I looked at 214D, and just thought "damn, why am I not using this at all in pressure when I have the meter? It gives +5 like Dead Spike, but it's got faster startup and leads to awesome, easily confirmed combos on hit." At that point, I really began to understand that it's not that Tsu's good pressure is still absolutely awful -- it's not. It's just that her good options all cost charge she often isn't willing to spend (or doesn't have).
Airk Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 D: Not sure why that's a D-face; If you're in range for it, that means you hit them out clean as long as you hit on the first frame. Sure, it's no stupid Inferno Divider where it's invulnerable practically until you go into recovery frames, but it IS a strong reversal, as you doubtless know better than I do. Any suggestions for good stuff to do following 214D, or shall I just get in there and try it? :P
pktazn Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 More a-cho Tsubaki vs Ragna, Valkenhayn, Ragna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cix969sMnms Tsubaki vs Ragna x 2, Mu... till the end of the vid lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cix969sMnms#t=18m23
Airk Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Holy cow! Look at the 236236D here Look how far she lunges forwards. It looks like she would've gone further if it hadn't been blocked? That's practically a whole new move. o.o Also, does anyone have any idea why that Tsubaki player keeps using 236A from out of range? Trying to bait an inferno divider or something?
diospyros Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Whoa, I didn't notice the lunging part until you pointed that out. For 236A, I was thinking the same thing for the baiting part. Though, the player was mixing it up with 236C for maybe a follow-up to 214D.
pktazn Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Yea since 236A kinda looks like 236D (at least to me it does haha) it could keep the opponent on edge. A Tsubaki from NSB was doing that as well in one of their matches iirc. EDIT: For anyone interested, there are three Tsubakis at acho: nezu, yuuzon, and kazu @ ginga. The black palette Tsubaki in the latest one I posted is kazu @ ginga ( かず＠銀河 ), and kuyaki ( クヤキ ) is Nezu. Yuuzon ( ゆうぞん ) I haven't seen yet but I'm on the lookout to see if he's in any of the acho vids so far. I'll start labeling them on the first page. Edited February 8, 2011 by pktazn
Kiba Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Not sure why that's a D-face; If you're in range for it, that means you hit them out clean as long as you hit on the first frame. Sure, it's no stupid Inferno Divider where it's invulnerable practically until you go into recovery frames, but it IS a strong reversal, as you doubtless know better than I do. Any suggestions for good stuff to do following 214D, or shall I just get in there and try it? :P It's just that I think I finally realised why I kept getting hit out of it, but it's still definately a useful move. Also, trust me, you know to now your stuff when it comes to these things on frames. I'm clueless about 'em and only really know about what gives an advantage or not. Ha. For 214D, it depends on the player. If you get the player into the corner and you find out they lke to try to jump out you can use it to catch them, since it's air unblockable. Followed by 22D, and then the standard air combo with 3 stock in total (Including 214D) that's about 6.3k? You could even use 214D-214214D and go for 6.3k in total. 214D-214214D-623D-J214D-6CC-JC-J236A-J214C- TAP JD then while falling-JC-5B-JBC-JCC-J236A-J214C (Corner combo only) Following 214D you can follow up with unblockables, or you could even just use 5B for more pressure. They both work against players that mash buttons, although setting up for the unblockable depends on the character you are against, and the range. Of course, feel free to try out the move and experiment with it. You could even find out new things! Edit: I also forgot to mention that it's also a good idea to use 214D if you try to AA your opponent but they barrier block it. 214D will put you at adv if they block the followup, or in the event where they drop their barrier, then thats a combo start for you. Doing this on opponents who are in the air but fairly close to the ground is risky though. For example, Tager could 360/720 you out of the 214D. Because I've conditioned some Tager players in a way that they backdash my 5B-22D game, I use 214D to attempt to catch backdashes but it's risky. Edited February 8, 2011 by Kiba
Daedron Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 All these videos are melting my brain =( CS2 can't get here soon enough As for the 236x series, are they actually + on block now or is everyone just afraid to try and punish them?
Kiba Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 As for the 236x series, are they actually + on block now or is everyone just afraid to try and punish them? I was thinking the same thing. I've yet to see anyone attempt to punish it with a DP or something. We can assume for now that it is + on block?
Airk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. I've yet to see anyone attempt to punish it with a DP or something. We can assume for now that it is + on block? I think it's safe to say it's at least fairly safe. :P
Kiba Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) That's great. It just means Tsubaki has a fairly safe way to get in and get a primer off at the same time. I've been noticing her guard break alot of opponents recently. Edited February 10, 2011 by Kiba
Airk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 That's great. It just means Tsubaki has a fairly safe way to get in and get a primer off at the same time. I've been noticing her guard alot of opponent recently. Yeah, the new primer rounding means that a LARGE chunk of the cast has only two primers after bursting once, and virtually everyone except Tager has only one primer after bursting twice. And, well, with Tsubaki's enhanced pressure, it's easier than ever to sneak in a 22c... and with 236C seeming safe - at least, if spaced properly (I bet this factors in somewhat - in CS1, all the 236X moves have 10 active frames, which means if you hit with them early, you're at a much bigger disadvantage than if you hit towards the end. It could easily be that in CS2, whether the move is safe/at advantage depends on spacing it properly, to hit late in the active frames.), it should be easy to whittle off a couple of primers. I haven't seen a lot of the Japanese players taking advantage of this though - I see a LOT of matches with someone sitting at one primer and their opponent not making any real effort to break it. Guard breaks are huge in this game. One of the vids pktazn posted recently had Tsubaki landing a guard break, charging for like an entire stock, and THEN continuing the combo.
pktazn Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Oh I never knew that if you hit them early it was a disadvantage... *takes notes* Seriously you guys are really helpful haha. And I remember seeing that Tsubaki guard break. I laughed at the fact that they were indeed able to charge and continue the combo haha. I think it's in one of the acho vids against Lambda iirc.
Airk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Oh I never knew that if you hit them early it was a disadvantage... *takes notes* Well, in CS1, it's always at disadvantage. (Except 236D). But here's how it works: 236X has 10 active frames. Your opponent's blockstun starts when you make contact with them, but your RECOVERY doesn't start until the active frames run out. So if you hit them with the very first active frame (Meaning, you're close to them after the startup frames, which move you forward) then you have to wait 9 frames (The rest of your active frames) before you even start going into recovery, while in the meantime, your opponent's blockstun is ticking away. If instead you hit them on the very LAST active frame, you go straight into recovery on the next frame - so effectively, they are in blockstun 9 frames longer (relative to you) than they were when you hit on the first frame. The downside of spacing to hit them late in the active frames is that they have more time to see you coming and do a reversal DP or something. But anyway, in CS2, I suspect very strongly that this spacing is going to play into how safe the move is and what you can do to combo after it. It would seem just a little too good if you could just spam them around and not get punished unless they read it. (Though to some extent, Lambda can do just that with Zwei Blade (236B) but that has variable startup based on distance, blahblahstuff.) My theoryfighting PSR is like 250, it's a shame my execution sucks. :P And I remember seeing that Tsubaki guard break. I laughed at the fact that they were indeed able to charge and continue the combo haha. I think it's in one of the acho vids against Lambda iirc. Yeah. I had a "What are you DOING?!?!" moment, then laughed when they went on to do a combo. Guard Crushes are two whole seconds long, which is like, forever in this kind of game.
pktazn Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Even if you're just theory fighting you're one of the few I really trust about frame data shenanigans and the like haha. Thanks for explaining that! I fail at both execution and theory fighting if it makes you feel any better xD
pktazn Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 supinoza (Tsubaki) vs mutou (Hazama) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFurrUH-Cr8
pktazn Posted February 15, 2011 Author Posted February 15, 2011 Just the other day I was gonna say there haven't been any Tsubaki vids lately... some good shit happening over at Tachikawa and ~in LOOP~ shou ( Valkenhayn ) vs konan ( Tsubaki ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGQzSsxnrbA#t=7m40 kuresu ( Tsubaki ) vs fuji ( Hakumen ) then kuresu ( Tsubaki ) vs konan ( Tsubaki ) *our second CS2 Tsubaki mirror * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-COsEh-K1I#t=6m10 kuresu ( Tsubaki ) vs chuuken ( Valkenhayn ) then kuresu ( Tsubaki ) vs renshuuchuu ( Carl ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0--PyryTAnE Makoto, Lambda vs Tsubaki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r7y02r8p00#t=2m44 Jin vs Tsubaki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJ2EPAlmO8#t=4m48 Tsubaki vs Hakumen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgC0mibjAH4#t=3m04
Airk Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I can hardly wait to see what the Japanese players will be able to do with her once they stop dropping combos and missing pickups. Yes, I have no room to talk because I suck, but I am hungry to see some high level play on the order of what we're seeing with Hazama and Jin. Edited February 17, 2011 by Airk
pktazn Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 To be fair, not many played her in CS1 at high-level play for obvious reason and Hazama and Jin have been viable for said play. Jin players have also had two games prior to CS2 to get to where they're at now haha.
diospyros Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I just noticed in the supinoza match that 236236C did not lunge.Maybe the video skipped a frame but I'm kinda wondering why is that?
pktazn Posted February 18, 2011 Author Posted February 18, 2011 a-cho Tsubaki vs Carl *last round is kinda sad but it's Carl so * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws4o_zkor78#t=3m13 Not sure who it is. I have an idea of who it is but I want to wait for a-cho to post the results on their site before I say.
Recommended Posts