FlyingVe Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 The main reason I think Tager is better is that he has some options, even if they be shitty ones, in situations where he previously had none. He's still the worst character in the game, but I think he's usable now.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 The main reason I think Tager is better is that he has some options, even if they be shitty ones, in situations where he previously had none. He's still the worst character in the game, but I think he's usable now. How about you say he's usable worst character in the game?:d On a serious note, what I have seen from Cs2 Tager is the came as Cs1, but more of shit works. Cs1 gave Tager stuff to do after rapid. I rarely saw combos with rapid cancels in them. Now in Cs2 Tager can be in your face more. Which I like a lot. My only problem is a bar for mag, and some more invincibly on his throws. I also heard he can hold his own now. No more holding back, and waiting for a shining moment. Also, sorry I haven't been on a while. MvC3 and life are calling. also, Haggar plays like Tager imo.
Osuna Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 The main reason I think Tager is better is that he has some options, even if they be shitty ones, in situations where he previously had none. He's still the worst character in the game, but I think he's usable now.I'm not saying don't think he got better, but to be fair he also Doesn't have options where used used to have them.
FlyingVe Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 The only place I can think of where he lost an option is after 6A, though we got a new option there. THough, the armor isn't exactly great.
Isorropia Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Pretty sure he lost 4D/5D gatlings from 2C, can anyone confirm that?
Darlos9D Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Also, sorry I haven't been on a while. MvC3 and life are calling. also, Haggar plays like Tager imo. I wish Tager had pipe...
FlyingVe Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Pretty sure he lost 4D/5D gatlings from 2C, can anyone confirm that? Right, that is also true. And now that I think of it, his 5D isn't as good anymore. Still, I hold that he now has options in the spots where he used to have none, even though those options suck.
lolokoa Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Pretty sure he lost 4D/5D gatlings from 2C, can anyone confirm that? 2C>4D/5D doesn't gatling anymore 5A>4D doesn't work too but 5A>5B>4D is still there playing around the psp ver btw Tager challenge mode is basically the same thing except FC got a MTW added in the end and forward throw combo needed mag lol
A.X.I.S. Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Some would argue that 5D is better. In CS1 5D had a really strong pull but it loses to walking backwards or backdashing, the opponent can beat the stuffing out of us while we are in recovery in some cases. Now it doesn't pull as strong, makes it a bit harder to punish but on the bright side if we make 5D connect it makes our opponent more uncomfortable than ever before. @ Osuna: repeatable pressure with A sledge was when we were discussing IF A sledge was -1 instead of -3.
Manta Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I generally find myself linking j.D as an attractor more than 5D anyway, slightly better on whiff since you can land cancel it. You can move with it as a jump move too.
FlyingVe Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I think 5D over-all was a nerf. I also used it alot as an anti-air move. Keep people from jumping half screen. Though I'll just learn to abuse it's new properties.
Osuna Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Some would argue that 5D is better. In CS1 5D had a really strong pull but it loses to walking backwards or backdashing, the opponent can beat the stuffing out of us while we are in recovery in some cases. Now it doesn't pull as strong, makes it a bit harder to punish but on the bright side if we make 5D connect it makes our opponent more uncomfortable than ever before. @ Osuna: repeatable pressure with A sledge was when we were discussing IF A sledge was -1 instead of -3.Why would it be -1? It's -2 in CS1. Someone said repeatable pressure with asledge in reaction to the news that IB got nerfed or at least that's what my fallable memory tells me. -4 would be enough for there to be no repeatable pressure on anyone with a 5 frame move. Since you have 2 frames of vulnerable start up on 360A and that you're only meterless option of keeping them blocking while they are at advantage out of fear, I think. I forget how those things synch up sometimes. But it would have been minus 5 once the news came in on the IB nerf only being 2 frames fewer. Now it's even worse. IMO to have legit repeatable pressure you would like to be plus on block. I rather have a 5D that gives incentive to rush rush me and increases the max distance I can threaten zoners than to having a safer, lower reach 5D, personally. 2C only gatlings to 3C now which makes it terrible on block. 2C is much more dangerous to use now that it can't be made safe on block, it also nerfs our guard break ability. I'm still sad about the IB nerfs, but on the bright side some of them are balanced by the throws buffs, so it's not a complete loss there. Speaking of changes that aren't exactly nerfs, they nerfed the proration on 6A so it's not nearly as good of a punish. 5C(CH)6C looks like it will replace it. Which isn't that bad, as a starter it is now very comparable to our old 6A 2C. Although, didn't 6C have repeat proration? So you can't follow it with colider whiff 6C. 6A probably won't lead to that either. Naked collider does for less than 3K. Gaahh I wish I had CS2 for the psp.
A.X.I.S. Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 The whole discussion was about a what if, since we didn't have the frame data we started talking about the things that could have been good if we had it. Sadly A sledge is -4 so its far worse than what we have. 2C>3C is unsafe but it can be delayed a bit, its not safe on all characters but some characters will have a problem punishing it without IB. I do agree with the 6A nerf, 5C will be a lot easier to use and we can probably block a burst if we let it recover. I always thought the best punish would be CH 5C>6A>2C since 5C>6A always combo's now...just not on air hit or CH. Sadly the closest thing Tager has for pressure is 2B>stuff. I am sad now.
Osuna Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The whole discussion was about a what if, since we didn't have the frame data we started talking about the things that could have been good if we had it. Sadly A sledge is -4 so its far worse than what we have. 2C>3C is unsafe but it can be delayed a bit, its not safe on all characters but some characters will have a problem punishing it without IB. I do agree with the 6A nerf, 5C will be a lot easier to use and we can probably block a burst if we let it recover. I always thought the best punish would be CH 5C>6A>2C since 5C>6A always combo's now...just not on air hit or CH. Sadly the closest thing Tager has for pressure is 2B>stuff. I am sad now.Then we're really talking about different instances. 5C 6A 2C would have slightly better proration I think, because I only know/remember for sure that 6A's p1 got nerfed. It wouldn't work at all distances though. Certainly not all the distances 6A 2C used to work at in CS1 and even that didn't work at the distance 5C 6C can, and it would logically have to be further away than 2C to be worth it. So I think 5C 6C will see more action. I block bursts off 5C's in CS1, so I'm pretty confident that'll be as you say.
WolfCrimson Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. I just had a brilliant idea (or lousy idea, depends on how you look at it). CS2 Tager has no way of ending a blockstring safely should he use 2C in his blockstring, correct? Is 2C special cancellable on block?
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 2C is special cancleable, but what are you gonna cancel into exactly, Sledge, Volt Charge? It's all LOLZ from there.
WolfCrimson Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) No. 360. It's gonna be purple, I know, but if they tech it, you're safe. It's good if all you care about is ending your blockstring safely. Scratch that, I didn't know 360 doesn't get canceled into (in CS1, but I don't think they changed that in CS2) P.S. Sorry if I have given any of you false hope, I didn't mean it. P.P.S. OK this is weird, apparently 360 can't be canceled into by anything other than 6A. Kinda unique seeing how specials are either cancellable-into or non-cancellable-into, not something in-between. Edited April 1, 2011 by WolfCrimson
Isorropia Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 You can -never- cancel into a command grab. Being special cancellable does not apply to command grabs for tager. Now, for 5A and 6A, what you're doing is cancelling into a jump, and then cancelling the jump into a command grab.
WolfCrimson Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I see, so it wasn't voodoo magic. OK then, thanks dude.
zreb Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 special cancel into voltic charge 720!!! it beats rapid cancelling
A.X.I.S. Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 Lets Talk about CS2 Tager for a sec since I just played it for a few minutes. First impressions: He is like CS1 Tager except his damage is a little worse, good thing is his comboablity is all the better. 5C>6A>2C is wonderful but sometimes 2C won't connect. 360B has more untech time than 360A. For example 360A>walk 5B>2B>collider will not work on Haz and Tsu but 360B>walk 5B>2B>collider will. this is a tricky link for me, well in the case of the PSP it kinda lags when you do 360s with Tager lol. 360B>5B>2B is like doing 360B>walk 2B> but you have to walk further to make 2B connect. Due to the P1 nerf on 2B you can no longer do 2B>2C>collider>collider whiff>6C>j.2C>2B>2C>collider>B/Egadget. They will Tech before the sledge hits. Also you only get 100 more damage off of this it seems instead of 200 more in CS1. 360 damage output is amazing now, land this and know your combo you are gonna nail at least 4-5k off of this meterless and if you have meter you are gonna make over 5k. This means we are a bit less reliant on 720. I didn't get a chance to mess with the 2C>3C gattling nor did I check out any other small stuff...I will say that doing j.C>j.B on Haz is gonna be tough, tried a few times but gave up. If you notice any issues with this post then I will say this: I am on 2 hours of sleep...I am going nuts and its not CS2 that is making me crazy. P.S VTC 720 is not as good as some of you think, you cancel the recovery frames with it, 214D input change is a wonderful buff.
Isorropia Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 P.S VTC 720 is not as good as some of you think, you cancel the recovery frames with it, 214D input change is a wonderful buff. That can't be right, back when cs2 was new I remember seeing a tager do 2 XYH 720s from neutral in a match against a ragna player, both of the 720s came out even faster than a 5A/2A buffered 720. Did you try holding down the D button while doing the entire motion? Maybe if you let it go then you can't do it unti recovery....iunno.
A.X.I.S. Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 I think you may be right, I haven't actually tried that, wasn't on it for too long. But the good thing is canceling the recovery with it is pretty awesome, means we can beat out lows with it. I believe there is a few vids of Tager canceling VTC with it but when I tried it didn't work. I think I realize why. You can't do it all in one input, you have to do 214[D]~720C. I was doing 214[D]7896321478963C. [D] means to hold FYI. When I get the chance or if anyone can check that would be peachy.
TagerTime Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Mori royally trolled all us tager players once again. According to the translated frame data "can cancel into 720C 1~11F" which makes it virtually impossible for me to do even while playing my psp with my arcade stick. No wonder we never see it done in japanese videos except for that one time. I am very dissapointed that its not truly special cancelable like we all expected, but on the bright side it definitely feels alot easier to do 720 after voltic charge due to the new motion. i couldn't do it reliably before but now i can. Tager CS2 translated frame data http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager.html Also it suks that 360 A/B mid-screen otg combos are very hard for me to do. im hoping that its because the psp version sucks cuz i get a lot of slowdown and frame skipping on this crappy psp-1000. Another thing i really don't like is that 6b no longer breaks primers T_T One great new addition is that j.C -> j.D is a true red beat combo now, which is very usefull in many situations. Do any ground combo mag or no mag and end it with 6C-> j.C->j.D. you will always land before them with enough time to reset them with collider if they do any air tech front back or neutral. Plus if they don't tech you blue beat them for decent damage + set them up for another reset at their next tech out opportunity. I'm not sure but just from experimenting it seems to me like tager gets a lot more blue beat damage than in cs1 before they can tech out again. Another thing Ac whiff ->6c timing also feels easier to me now. in cs 1 i could rarely land it. its also very easy to control the height you leave them in the air after you land on the ground by altering your jump and air combo timing. you can float them at any height you want for your collider to grab them no matter if they tech or not. here are some basic example combo spots where you can insert jc->jd->collider reset. works on most if not all chars, i haven't tested them on all chars yet. no mag 6b->6c->jc->jd->collider CH 5c->6c->jc->jd->collider FC 6b->6b->6c->jc->jd->collider FC->2c->5c->6c->jc->jd->collider spark ->jc->jd->collider Backthrow j.C->j.D-> collider mag 5c-> 6a->2c->Ac whiff ->6c->jc->jd->collider FC 2c-> 2c ->Ac whiff -> 6b-> a sledge -> 5c -> 6c->jc->jd->collider One good thing is that the new back throw is very good. If you land a back throw Astral is guaranteed to combo. Backthrow j.C->j.D, collider is amazing and works on everyone i tried even all small chars. If they tech they eat a huge reset, if they dont they continue to eat a high damage throw combo. Edited April 3, 2011 by TagerTime
Recommended Posts